Play Nice 2016 Presidential Election Part 4 - President-Elect Trump

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Maggie5

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If it helps your world-view, only a quarter of eligible Americans voted for Trump.

Some of the hacking wasn't that hard, and the number of emails isn't that important. Podesta (or an aide) literally typed their gmail password into a form which was sent to the hacker. The presentation of the email that tricked them was good enough to fool one of their IT guides, who's excuse was that he meant to say it was an illegitimate email but typed the opposite (weakest excuse ever). The hack of the DNC was far more sophisticated, and the cybersecurity firms who analysed them were highly complimentary of the two groups who got into their system.

The spin about it being a '400 pound guy in his bedroom' once again shows how little people like Trump think of their supporters. Of course the trick of it is to give the extra detail about the least likely option. So by giving the visual of a fat guy in New Jersey, people can imagine it. Whereas the detailed explanations of the Russian Cosy Bear and Fancy Bear groups from the cybersecurity firms is harder to imagine.

And Eliteflyboy is talking out his hat - ignore him.
I am sure every one of us would have likely received a similar email to one of the type that Podesta received and agree it is a poor excuse.
It was more the DNC hacking that I was thinking of, very sophisticated and although the report released is rather amateurish, I can understand why it is not more detailed.
Many years ago, I accidentally deleted a lot of information on a friends computer and went to a local computer market to see if I could get it checked out. There was a 16 year old kid there who would check parts bought at the market to see if they were working and got talking to him, nice kid who was able to fix the computer and I also entered into an arrangement where he would teach me to build my own. Got to know him really well over the next few months and he was telling me how he was a hacker together with a couple of his friends. Wanted to teach me and I said no thanks. They did it because it was fun and to prove that they could.
Pretty confident that the hacking of the DNC was not to show that hackers could do it or for fun.
 

Cooldude

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The spin about it making Obama look bad is fanciful. You may as well say that it is a declaration of guilt from Putin. Both are overly optimistic portrayals. The point about it making it easier for Putin to work with Trump makes far more sense.

Yes. It's undoubtedly a problem. But he didn't convince half the country (25.1% last time I checked), nor even half the voters, and that aspect is helpful for my optimistic world-view.
He got more votes than all modern Republicans in an election in spite of countless moments that would've disqualified other politicians, you can fall back on the "but only a quarter of the voters" but there have always been people who can't be bothered voting (and they are as much a problem). The fact is the US fundamentally is a broken and divided country for many reasons with a broken political system, Trump isn't the problem, as long the system is the way it is and part of US culture is the way it is, these things will keep happening in that country

And it's not "world view", America's just one country, it's not the world
 

Maggie5

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I'd rather trust a poor man on the streets with my money than a lying two faced politican that has an ego so big, he thinks no one will think twice about him lying in their face.
Are your referring to Trump or Putin?
The answer that you still seem to be avoiding is, 'if not Russia, then who'?
Don't give me the 16 year old again.
 
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He got more votes than all modern Republicans in an election in spite of countless moments that would've disqualified other politicians, you can fall back on the "but only a quarter of the voters" but there have always been people who can't be bothered voting (and they are as much a problem). The fact is the US fundamentally is a broken and divided country for many reasons with a broken political system, Trump isn't the problem, as long the system is the way they are and part of US culture is the way it is, these things will keep happening in that country

And it's not "world view", America's just one country, it's not the world
It helps my world-view because it's about whether or not you think people generally are smart or dumb. Voting for Trump was largely done for dumb reasons, so it helps my world-view to remember that it was only a quarter of Americans, and maybe 2-5% of those may have had justifiable reasons.
 

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It helps my world-view because it's about whether or not you think people generally are smart or dumb. Voting for Trump was largely done for dumb reasons, so it helps my world-view to remember that it was only a quarter of Americans, and maybe 2-5% of those may have had justifiable reasons.
It doesn't help your "world view", because yet again, America is not the world

And America is a stupid country, always has been and famously so, it's just that we didn't realise how truly dumb they are and they just proved it this election

Nope, the 44% who didn't vote are just as dumb, no excusing them

Don't even know what you're trying to argue here, I've been arguing America's dumb that's why they elected Trump, you think so, so what's the difference?
 

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Are your referring to Trump or Putin?
The answer that you still seem to be avoiding is, 'if not Russia, then who'?
Don't give me the 16 year old again.
I'm referring to Obama, read the whole context.

I'm avoiding it for obvious reasons. I'm not 100% certain since there is no conclusive, irrefutable proof from those who claim so and neither do I have such proof. Is that too hard to understand? What proof do you have other than "the FBI, DHS, and US government" says so?

No wonder people get falsely accused and serve prison time, no one wants to look at the evidence. It's just, "Oh the government and media says so, it must be true". And most of the time, it's also the same people that despise others for having religious beliefs and demand "proof".
 
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Maggie5

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I'm referring to Obama, read the whole context.

I'm avoiding it for obvious reasons. I'm not 100% certain since there is no conclusive, irrefutable proof from those who claim so and no ether do I have such proof. Is that too hard to understand? What proof do you have other than "the FBI, DHS, and US government" says so?

No wonder people get falsely accused and serve prison time, no one wants to look at the evidence. It's just, "Oh the government and media says so, it must be true". And most of the time, it's also the same people that despise others for have religious beliefs and demand "proof".
I did read it that is why I thought you were referring to Trump first. Still think it is Trump.

So you take the view nothing to see here move on. What a closeted world you live in.
 

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It doesn't help your "world view", because yet again, America is not the world

And America is a stupid country, always has been and famously so, it's just that we didn't realise how truly dumb they are and they just proved it this election

Nope, the 44% who didn't vote are just as dumb, no excusing them

Don't even know what you're trying to argue here, I've been arguing America's dumb that's why they elected Trump, you think so, so what's the difference?
Electing Trump only scratches the surface of the level of their stupidity
 

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I did read it that is why I thought you were referring to Trump first. Still think it is Trump.

So you take the view nothing to see here move on. What a closeted world you live in.
You read the sentence preceding it? How'd you conclude Trump when I never even mentioned him in my post, let alone the sentence preceding my statement?

I guess people will draw conclusions to fit their views even if it means taking things out of context.

There's a difference between patiently waiting and demanding for proof and "nothing to see here". Please stop concluding my points for me, it's bad enough when you take things out of context.

I've answered your question, now please explain how you came to your conclusions other than reading an article stating "the FBI, DHS, and US government agree and say so".
 

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madmug

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It doesn't help your "world view", because yet again, America is not the world

And America is a stupid country, always has been and famously so, it's just that we didn't realise how truly dumb they are and they just proved it this election

Nope, the 44% who didn't vote are just as dumb, no excusing them

Don't even know what you're trying to argue here, I've been arguing America's dumb that's why they elected Trump, you think so, so what's the difference?
America isnt dumb. Well no dumber than anyone else anyway :)
I do understand they mainly ignorant about the world. An old friend spend some years their. He was quite surprised how little they knew of the world.
Its always a worry seeing them as a world power & being so insular. It probably explains the Vietnam & Iraq disasters.
 

Maggie5

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You read the sentence preceding it? How'd you conclude Trump when I never even mentioned him in my post, let alone the sentence preceding my statement?

I guess people will draw conclusions to fit their views even if it means taking things out of context.

There's a difference between patiently waiting and demanding for proof and "nothing to see here". Please stop concluding my points for me, it's bad enough when you take things out of context.

I've answered your question, now please explain how you came to your conclusions other than reading an article stating "the FBI, DHS, and US government agree and say so".
I came to the conclusion that it was Trump based on his campaigning and tweets.

I prefer to make up my mind based on more than one source and do not have a predetermined position unlike you.

And no you still haven't answered my question and it is unlikely that you ever will, so let's leave it at that.
 
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It doesn't help your "world view", because yet again, America is not the world

And America is a stupid country, always has been and famously so, it's just that we didn't realise how truly dumb they are and they just proved it this election

Nope, the 44% who didn't vote are just as dumb, no excusing them

Don't even know what you're trying to argue here, I've been arguing America's dumb that's why they elected Trump, you think so, so what's the difference?
If you read it back and remove the assumption that I'm arguing, then I think it will make more sense.
 

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I came to the conclusion that it was Trump based on his campaigning and tweets.

I prefer to make up my mind based on more than one source and do not have a predetermined position unlike you.

And no you still haven't answered my question and it is unlikely that you ever will, so let's leave it at that.
Right so all this was is that you have something against Trump and anything that sheds bad light on him is good enough for you? I was surprised you pulled Trump and Putin out of thin air. (I'm not defending either and both are held to the same standards as Obama as should anyone who runs a country).

Sure Trump complained about rigging before the elections, now he's a bit silent on this issue until what happened with the diplomats. Obama denied rigging and Russian involvement (there are actual press conference videos of him saying this) and is now playing that card.

You could apply my statement to any politician in the world but my comment was specifically referring to Obama who out and out lied on national coverage of the election and has since done an about turn.

What do you want me to say, the Russians did it? I could say it was Australian hackers and put out exact reports the US government put out. Would you buy it? Ok I'll play, it was Australian hackers and there's no evidence you can provide other than "the US government said so" that can make me believe otherwise.

You're right, we'll leave it as it is before your reality is shattered.

This isn't about the US and their democracy anymore, what they are doing, if it escalates any further will affect the world. Don't be short sighted because someone you don't like is the president elect of a country. If you need any more confirmation that the world needs to be alarmed, look a bit closer to home with Taiwan and China. The smaller Asian countries know the US isn't able to fight full blown conflicts like the glory days of old, with two power houses and NK.
 

Maggie5

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Right so all this was is that you have something against Trump and anything that sheds bad light on him is good enough for you? I was surprised you pulled Trump and Putin out of thin air. (I'm not defending either and both are held to the same standards as Obama as should anyone who runs a country).

Sure Trump complained about rigging before the elections, now he's a bit silent on this issue until what happened with the diplomats. Obama denied rigging and Russian involvement (there are actual press conference videos of him saying this) and is now playing that card.

You could apply my statement to any politician in the world but my comment was specifically referring to Obama who out and out lied on national coverage of the election and has since done an about turn.

What do you want me to say, the Russians did it? I could say it was Australian hackers and put out exact reports the US government put out. Would you buy it? Ok I'll play, it was Australian hackers and there's no evidence you can provide other than "the US government said so" that can make me believe otherwise.

You're right, we'll leave it as it is before your reality is shattered.

This isn't about the US and their democracy anymore, what they are doing, if it escalates any further will affect the world. Don't be short sighted because someone you don't like is the president elect of a country. If you need any more confirmation that the world needs to be alarmed, look a bit closer to home with Taiwan and China. The smaller Asian countries know the US isn't able to fight full blown conflicts like the glory days of old, with two power houses and NK.
Eliteflyboy said:
I'd rather trust a poor man on the streets with my money than a lying two faced politican that has an ego so big, he thinks no one will think twice about him lying in their face.
Gee you go on, this is what you posted (above), now I have no idea what you are going on about.
No I don't want you to say the Russians did it but can you categorically state that they weren't involved?
 

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If you read it back and remove the assumption that I'm arguing, then I think it will make more sense.
I did read it that at those times when you are under your blankets you look skyward and thank the deity that 25% voted for Trump. Restores your faith in the 75%
 

yebiga

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Only if, like in Russia, he can jail any opposition. He is a corrupt criminal. He talks the big Russian bear talk. But he has seen the virtual destruction of the Russian Economy & still made $billions.Russia is a economic skeleton which carries a big stick. Military, gas, oil & cabbage is all they've got. Putin strokes the Russian Nationalist ego but drains its finances. Hes a big & nasty version of Trump.
People call Hillary corrupt. Ha!
Well that's the western medias view - well summarized. Only it is a tad cartoonish.

Consider this alternative narrative that before Putin became the next iteration of evil, it was us in the west who destroyed Afghanistan, iraq, Libya and Syria. Putin sat back and watched. Then we sponsored an up rising in the Ukraine and Putin said enough is enough.

In fact at his 2015 xmas press conference he said just that - he asked does the west know what it's doing? He then proceeded to end the war in Syria. He negotiated a peace of sorts in the Ukraine. He then made Don Trump the President of the USA. - if your to believe the CIA, FBI, Obama and the democrats.

He is very popular in Russia even by independent western polls. The economy whilst stressed from western sanctions is much stronger than the bankrupt state he found post the 1990s reign of Yeltsin and Goldman Sacks.

As for blood on his hands -
Is the blood on his hands even near the volume that Bush Obama and Hillary have after destroying one country after another - I don't think so.

As for his self enrichment - Hilary has managed to accumulate $300 million while holding public positions - does that worry you.

So by any measure Putin is a more capable and much more decent human. His not an attractive man - let's be honest and the whole bare back horse riding thing is a bit odd.

Still when your the sole statesman in a world full of petty beuracrats you have to find some kind of stress release - a bit of computer hacking and horse riding sounds ok to me.
 

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I did read it that at those times when you are under your blankets you look skyward and thank the deity that 25% voted for Trump. Restores your faith in the 75%
No it doesn't, half the eligible voters didn't vote at all, they're as bad as the Trump voters, at least the Trump supporters would participate in the political process, whether you agree with their positions or not

Let's not even get into those fervent Hillary Clinton fans when she is also terrible in other ways, America is just a dumb country with the most powerful military in the world. Wish we can take those away and just let their circus run their show

America isnt dumb. Well no dumber than anyone else anyway :)
I do understand they mainly ignorant about the world. An old friend spend some years their. He was quite surprised how little they knew of the world.
Its always a worry seeing them as a world power & being so insular. It probably explains the Vietnam & Iraq disasters.
I think they're dumber than most. It's the home of evangelical Christianity based on you making the pastors a private jet owner with a huge mansion "for Jesus", it's the home of pyramid schemes and shitty drugs that they sell legally to ruin people. It's not just about the world, Americans really aren't the sharpest tools in the shed
 

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Eliteflyboy said:
I'd rather trust a poor man on the streets with my money than a lying two faced politican that has an ego so big, he thinks no one will think twice about him lying in their face.
Gee you go on, this is what you posted (above), now I have no idea what you are going on about.
No I don't want you to say the Russians did it but can you categorically state that they weren't involved?
Lol this is the correct context. I think I would know what I posted:

"Seriously, if you fall for that after, words coming out from none other than Obama saying there was, is, and won't be any rigging and no Russian involvement, a month before the elections, I don't know what else to say.

I'd rather trust a poor man on the streets with my money than a lying two faced politican that has an ego so big, he thinks no one will think twice about him lying in their face."


Now we're going around in circles. I can't categorically state they weren't involve just as you can't state they were. Or can you and if so what evidence did you use to conclude? Thank God you're not running a country. You're asking me to prove something I can't, I'm asking of proof from a government that claims the Russians did it. The responsibility lies with them to clearly prove their claims to the public and the world which they have not done thus far. They have only given statements and expect the public to take it at face value that everything they say is truth. This scenario is turning out to be another "WMDs in Iraq" scenario again. Remember the pointless war the west and it's media would want you to forget?
 

yebiga

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It helps my world-view because it's about whether or not you think people generally are smart or dumb. Voting for Trump was largely done for dumb reasons, so it helps my world-view to remember that it was only a quarter of Americans, and maybe 2-5% of those may have had justifiable reasons.
Head bucket sand
 
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