Prediction 2016 Rookie Draft

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There might not be any rule saying that it can happen - but the rule is very specific. It states that only Primary List players can be put on the LTI list.

In any case, if Greenwood were upgraded and they needed to upgrade Keath, then they could just downgrade Greenwood again.

Believe that the Problem with the Cat B once promote they cannot return to Cat B status but have to be Cat A.
The Shaw situation is a one-off due to the AFL and AFLPA inability to finalize an agreement ie Special circumstances and permission may be/should be given.
A lot of rules are in theory null and void between the lapse of the old agreement and new agreement being sign. The main reason most businesses reach an agreement before the expiry date of the last agreement has been reached.
 
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Cat B and Cat A have different rules.
The number of Cat A players you can have are directly related to how many players you have on your senior list.
When you promote a Cat B player to your senior list you are not reducing the number of Cat A rookies you have.
If we promote a Cat B player to the senior list, giving us 40 senior listed players, the rule is that you can only have 4 Cat A rookies if you have 40 senior listed players.
The promotion of a Cat B player to the senior list doesn't reduce the number of Cat A players we have, we still have 4 Cat A players.
If we promoted a Cat A player to the senior list we would automatically have one less Cat A player which would fall in line with the rules.
In Keath and Greenwood's case, if one is promoted we wouldn't reduce the number of Cat A rookies we have because they aren't Cat A rookies.
The rule basically is you're allowed a maximum of 44 players on your Senior list and Category A list added together (with a maximum of 6 Cat A rookies). Cat B list is a maximum of 3 and operates outside of the 44 player rule while they remain on the Cat B list.
If we did pick the max number of 5 Cat A rookies we are allowed with our current 39 senior players, we would have a total of 44 senior + Cat A rookie players.
The promotion of a Cat B would blow that number out to 45.
We currently have a total of 43 because we went 1 short with our Cat A rookie capacity.
The promotion of Keath would make that number 44 which is the maximum allowed.
If we had 44 right now, we couldn't promote Keath and make that number 45.
Maxing out the capacity of Cat A rookies means we don't have the ability to promote Keath or Greenwood at any stage next season barring long term injury.

In other words, if we do promote Keath or Greenwood, the current number of 4 Cat A rookies would become the maximum number of Cat A rookies we are allowed to have because our senior list would increased from 39 to 40. You're not allowed to increase your senior list + Cat A number to over 44 just because you decide you want to promote a Cat B rookie. You need that extra space on the Cat A list (or 2 senior list vacancies instead of our current 1 vacancy) to possibly go from 43 total player to 44 if you promote a Cat B rookie.

I should point out here that I'm not talking about promoting a Cat B rookie to a Cat A rookie. If we did fill our Cat A rookie list to capacity of 5, we still have had the ability to promote a Cat A rookie to the senior list. We chose to have the flexibility to also possibly promote a Cat B rookie.

It probably makes more sense to think of it the way you described it, a Cat B rookie must be promoted to a Cat A rookie before they can be promoted to the senior list. However, the actual rule is that Cat B rookies can be promoted directly to the senior list, but a club can't have over 44 senior listed + Cat A rookie listed players.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure if I'm able to explain this better than I have. Also, this rule makes sense to me, AFL club's are not allowed to have more than 44 players total on their senior list and Cat A rookie list added together. You don't get to increase your list numbers above 44 by promoting Cat B rookies to the senior list, it's the reason they have this rule.
Amen...

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I wish there was a place where the AFL just listed all their stupid policies so we could understand them.

Here's something I wasn't aware of from earlier this year: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-loosens-rookie-list-rules-20160229-gn6pfj.html

Apparently the club can take new category B rookies at any time of the year (excluding July to October) now, they don't have to wait for the draft, they can come on the list and start playing pretty much any time. This also applies (as far as I can tell from reading that article) to category A rookies who are "three-year non registered", ie long-term state league players, I think??? Actually, I'm not sure precisely what "registered" means in this context. If a player nominates for the draft but isn't taken, if he "registered" in this context? Or does it just mean, hasn't been on an AFL list in the last three years? Surely it can't just mean the latter, or else people would just take the best 18 year old in the country instead of trying to get pick #1 in the ND. Or does it literally mean, someone who hasn't been playing any level of football for the last three years?

Leaving a rookie spot open might become a tactic so if a player suddenly pops up out of the woodwork, they can snap him up?
 

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I wish there was a place where the AFL just listed all their stupid policies so we could understand them.

Here's something I wasn't aware of from earlier this year: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-loosens-rookie-list-rules-20160229-gn6pfj.html

Apparently the club can take new category B rookies at any time of the year (excluding July to October) now, they don't have to wait for the draft, they can come on the list and start playing pretty much any time. This also applies (as far as I can tell from reading that article) to category A rookies who are "three-year non registered", ie long-term state league players, I think??? Actually, I'm not sure precisely what "registered" means in this context. If a player nominates for the draft but isn't taken, if he "registered" in this context? Or does it just mean, hasn't been on an AFL list in the last three years? Surely it can't just mean the latter, or else people would just take the best 18 year old in the country instead of trying to get pick #1 in the ND. Or does it literally mean, someone who hasn't been playing any level of football for the last three years?

Leaving a rookie spot open might become a tactic so if a player suddenly pops up out of the woodwork, they can snap him up?

Any Kid or Player of Aussie rules football must be registered to play. it not just registration to AFL but to Aussie rules Football as a whole.
 
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So presumably this relates solely to the category B guys, ie international players and the basketballers looking to convert, etc.

Not a lot of use picking those guys up mid-season, though. Hard to imagine a scenario where all yours rucks go down and you decide "I'll bring in that guy who literally hasn't played a game of Aussie rules footy in years rather than just asking one of the talls to do double duties".
 

dylan123

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I suppose it's so you can then get them into the AFL environment right away, get them training early as it's going to take more than a standard pre season to get them to the shape required to be AFL ready. By being allowed to sign them early they can start to get paid and put all their focus into training to become an AFL player straight away.
 
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Rory Sloane was available in the 2007 rookie draft

I don't believe he was! He was a bottom age player the year we overlooked him. The rule with bottom aged players at the time was they they were ineligible for the rookie draft and needed to go back and have another year in the U18s.

Have no idea if that is the rule now but I am certain those were the rules back then. I used to follow it religiously. I think the reasoning behind it was that bottom age players still had not finished year 12 and if they are drafted in the rookie draft, they would not be able to earn enough money to live away from home and study year 12. The rookie salaries back then were set amounts and significantly lower than what the last round draftees would earn (3rd round + draftees, in the national draft had the same salaries with 2nd rounder having higer salaries and 1 rounder had higher salaries than the rest of the draftees.).
 
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I don't believe he was! He was a bottom age player the year we overlooked him. The rule with bottom aged players at the time was they they were ineligible for the rookie draft and needed to go back and have another year in the U18s.

Have no idea if that is the rule now but I am certain those were the rules back then. I used to follow it religiously. I think the reasoning behind it was that bottom age players still had not finished year 12 and if they are drafted in the rookie draft, they would not be able to earn enough money to live away from home and study year 12. The rookie salaries back then were set amounts and significantly lower than what the last round draftees would earn (3rd round + draftees, in the national draft had the same salaries with 2nd rounder having higer salaries and 1 rounder had higher salaries than the rest of the draftees.).
The AFL changed the minimum draft age in 2009, which resulted in that year's draft being 3/4 strength. There's no such thing as a bottom age player these days. As a result, every player who is eligible for the ND these days is also eligible for the RD. This wasn't the case back when Sloane first entered the draft.

1st and 2nd round players are still paid more than players drafted in the later rounds.
 

macca23

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Like Matthew Smith mate, gone but not forgotten ;)

Hahaahaha, Matthew Smith 5 years no games. Red hair, pasty legs and quite slow.

The red hair comment reminded me of when the newbies were mingling with the regular players, I noticed Jacobs looking fondly at Himmelberg. Probably thinking. Yesss. we've got another bloodnut/ carrot top in the fold. lol
 
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Hahaahaha, Matthew Smith 5 years no games. Red hair, pasty legs and quite slow.

The red hair comment reminded me of when the newbies were mingling with the regular players, I noticed Jacobs looking fondly at Himmelberg. Probably thinking. Yesss. we've got another bloodnut/ carrot top in the fold. lol
By todays "political correctness" standards .......that's a racist rant !.........:p
 

CrowHop

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Theres a reason no one wanted Rory Laird in the main draft. There is a reason no wanted Gov in his first draft year.
Please, dont try that s**t here. Its a free hit.

Completely agree. Rookies have obvious deficiencies. The trick is looking past them and what the player possibly could become.


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Bacon8

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Gee there is so much misinformation in some explanations.

The free senior list spot matters only for the nominated rookie, which the rookie must be nominated the Tuesday following the NAB Challenge GF. This effects 10 clubs that have gone short (if they count Richmond & Yarran).

Clubs can upgrade a rookie mid-season (the Mid-season nominated rookie) and you don't require a free spot in any form (lower Senior list, LTI etc). You only need TPP cap space to do so.

Category B Rookies, if elevated, return to the Cat B rookie list at the end of the season, just like any rookie. Mason Cox is still a Cat B Rookie, as an example.

The number of Cat B's for some clubs below include their Academy Rookies, under rule 10.1 (b).

upload_2016-12-5_14-37-3.png


And to answer about Petrie (or any 23+ y.o. rookie that has played AFL before) - he can be paid above the minimum rookie payment, but anything above it is counted towards TPP.

So moving Shaw to the rookie list only saves the minimum rookie amount (approx $57k according to 2012-2016 CBA).
 
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Wait ... Brett Eddy and Emmanuel Irra will now be playing for Port and not South Adelaide ??? :(
If I read Bacon8s figures right they have spent $114,000 towards the Maggies winning a flag.
 
theoretically a decent chunk of Tippett's money ended up in Dangers pocket over the years. Where is Dangers money going? Evenly dispersed perhaps? Maybe we can squirrel enough away.
Fighting for a preseason payrise.
 

lunacy

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But yes let's trust hamish, he is the best man in the land to have a list capable of winning a premiership after all he has provided a bunch of superstar midfielders capable of being the next hawthorn, Geelong or Brisbane which dominated for years. Wonder where those recruiters that developed those lists are, probably sacked, not good enough
Na you're right. Can't believe he didn't pick Scharenberg with our 1st ND pick. Every other club were desperate to get him.
If only Marty36 was our head recruiter.
 

marty36

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Na you're right. Can't believe he didn't pick Scharenberg with our 1st ND pick. Every other club were desperate to get him.
If only Marty36 was our head recruiter.


If I was the head recruiter we might have a decent midfield, remind me what Geelong , Hawthorn and Brisbane in their hey day had in common when they dominated the competition

Hows our midfield tracking?
 
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If I was the head recruiter we might have a decent midfield, remind me what Geelong , Hawthorn and Brisbane in their hey day had in common when they dominated the competition

Hows our midfield tracking?
And how would you have achieved that, given that the Geelong, Hawthorn and Brisbane midfields were all largely built on top-10 draft picks, father son selections, and/or zone selections... none of which have been available to Adelaide?

Your shallow, shallow thinking still can't quite comprehend that it's really hard to get top-5 players when you never have a draft pick inside the top-10.
 

marty36

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And how would you have achieved that, given that the Geelong, Hawthorn and Brisbane midfields were all largely built on top-10 draft picks, father son selections, and/or zone selections... none of which have been available to Adelaide?

Your shallow, shallow thinking still can't quite comprehend that it's really hard to get top-5 players when you never have a draft pick inside the top-10.


Dont want excuses, your very good at making them up, so we are never going to win a premiership again, based on your theory of an excuse for everything!

Is thsi list capable of winning a premmiership, as it stands I say no, the midfield needs to be addressed, we knew two years ago PD was leaving, if not three years ago as I am sure plenty of discussions were had with him on his future at Adelaide and the reason he wasnt made captain, as he was the most eligable captain material going around.

Our midfield is crap it shoudl have been addressed by the recruiters instead of taking the HBF easy option or the list management re trading, neither have done what was reqyuired, Hamishs only real succes in 5 years is 2 very good HBF's in lever and Laird , and as for trading we have dont well with the forward line but the cupboard is bare in the mid. And let a good honest midfielder go for a third rounder
 
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Dont want excuses, your very good at making them up, so we are never going to win a premiership again, based on your theory of an excuse for everything!

Is thsi list capable of winning a premmiership, as it stands I say no, the midfield needs to be addressed, we knew two years ago PD was leaving, if not three years ago as I am sure plenty of discussions were had with him on his future at Adelaide and the reason he wasnt made captain, as he was the most eligable captain material going around.

Our midfield is crap it shoudl have been addressed by the recruiters instead of taking the HBF easy option or the list management re trading, neither have done what was reqyuired, Hamishs only real succes in 5 years is 2 very good HBF's in lever and Laird , and as for trading we have dont well with the forward line but the cupboard is bare in the mid. And let a good honest midfielder go for a third rounder
You said that if you were in charge you would have recruited a premiership quality midfield. I'm challenging you to say how you would have done that. Don't try and weasel out of it by pushing the "I'm happy with mediocrity" crap. You made a big statement, so back it up with something. If you're going to rubbish the club, say how you would have done things differently and how you would have made things better.

You were the one who raised the Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn midfields as an example. We've been over this before. Yes, they had some great players, usually with at least 3-4 AA grade players in their midfield. However, with very few exceptions (Sam Mitchell being the only notable one), every single one of those players was a top-10 draft pick, a F/S selection, or a zone selection. None of those advantages are/were open to the Adelaide recruiters.

So.. rather than being a smart arse... what would you do to get us that A-grade midfield? How do you propose that the club should land the required players, given the resources that our recruiters have available to them - i.e. no top-10 draft picks?
 
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