List Mgmt. 2016 Trade and Free Agency Targets Inner Sanctum Thread. Part 3

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StCicatriz

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Lee has played 4 games in the last two years. Corr is 3 years younger, already played twice as many games and was a former pick 12. I don't think we'd get anywhere near the same for Lee as what Corr would cost us.

I'd say Corr is probably worth a second round pick being contracted.
Huh? Re read what i wrote. When did i ever suggest we are trading lee for corr? Bizarre.

I was referring to the argument people made for why we traded FOR lee. Ever since that trade occurred people have defended it stating we just didnt rate anyone available at pick 12
 

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Smoke_Me_AKipper

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Huh? Re read what i wrote. When did i ever suggest we are trading lee for corr? Bizarre.

I was referring to the argument people made for why we traded FOR lee. Ever since that trade occurred people have defended it stating we just didnt rate anyone available at pick 12
Looking back it was an error, Lee taken far too high but I think we were worried about the Pies stepping in with a later pick? He was a reach. Clubs don't get them all right. BUT - our list was so poor that we IMO needed tall players who could actually play and he had kicked a monster amount of goals that season in the WAFL. Spencer White was another one that didn't work out....
 

Mat Mann

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Huh? Re read what i wrote. When did i ever suggest we are trading lee for corr? Bizarre.

I was referring to the argument people made for why we traded FOR lee. Ever since that trade occurred people have defended it stating we just didnt rate anyone available at pick 12
hindsight it was clearly a mistake, but in saying that, without that trade we probably don't get (37)Newnes or (24)Ross, 2 very good players

pick 12 for Lee and picks 24 and 43.

as for who was avail at 12 heres who went 11 thru 20
11 Toby Greene Greater Western Sydney
12 Sam Docherty Brisbane Lions
13 Taylor Adams Greater Western Sydney
14 Devon Smith Greater Western Sydney
15 Brandon Ellis Richmond
16 Tom Sheridan Fremantle
17 Clay Smith Western Bulldogs
18 Brad McKenzie North Melbourne
19 Elliot Kavanagh Essendon
20 Hayden Crozier Fremantle
21 (F/S) Tom Mitchell Sydney
58 Lachie Neale Fremantle

plenty of talent there that would have been better imo
 

bird_man

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Huh? Re read what i wrote. When did i ever suggest we are trading lee for corr? Bizarre.

I was referring to the argument people made for why we traded FOR lee. Ever since that trade occurred people have defended it stating we just didnt rate anyone available at pick 12
Fair enough, I could not understand your post. I must have missed all the talk about Lee.

Looking back I think the Lee trade was definitely a mistake.
 

StCicatriz

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Looking back it was an error, Lee taken far too high but I think we were worried about the Pies stepping in with a later pick? He was a reach. Clubs don't get them all right. BUT - our list was so poor that we IMO needed tall players who could actually play and he had kicked a monster amount of goals that season in the WAFL. Spencer White was another one that didn't work out....
from memory i think the concern with lee was freo. the concern with hickey was the pies who came late.

freo were a concern with lee as they were pretty keen on him after he kicked 3-5 goals on dawson in their intraclub
 

karaoke

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hindsight it was clearly a mistake, but in saying that, without that trade we probably don't get (37)Newnes or (24)Ross, 2 very good players

pick 12 for Lee and picks 24 and 43.

as for who was avail at 12 heres who went 11 thru 20
11 Toby Greene Greater Western Sydney
12 Sam Docherty Brisbane Lions
13 Taylor Adams Greater Western Sydney
14 Devon Smith Greater Western Sydney
15 Brandon Ellis Richmond
16 Tom Sheridan Fremantle
17 Clay Smith Western Bulldogs
18 Brad McKenzie North Melbourne
19 Elliot Kavanagh Essendon
20 Hayden Crozier Fremantle
21 (F/S) Tom Mitchell Sydney
58 Lachie Neale Fremantle

plenty of talent there that would have been better imo
Wrong draft - that was 2011 you have listed there.

pk12 trade/swap/deal was part of 2012 draft.
 

Kildonan

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hindsight it was clearly a mistake, but in saying that, without that trade we probably don't get (37)Newnes or (24)Ross, 2 very good players

pick 12 for Lee and picks 24 and 43.

as for who was avail at 12 heres who went 11 thru 20
11 Toby Greene Greater Western Sydney
12 Sam Docherty Brisbane Lions
13 Taylor Adams Greater Western Sydney
14 Devon Smith Greater Western Sydney
15 Brandon Ellis Richmond
16 Tom Sheridan Fremantle
17 Clay Smith Western Bulldogs
18 Brad McKenzie North Melbourne
19 Elliot Kavanagh Essendon
20 Hayden Crozier Fremantle
21 (F/S) Tom Mitchell Sydney
58 Lachie Neale Fremantle

plenty of talent there that would have been better imo
Just want to point out that using Draft Guru's trade calculator that Pick #12 for Lee and Picks #24 and #43 values Lee at Pick #64
Pick #64 is really a no risk pick - no-one could argue that Lee wasn't worth a speculator at that price. The trade was important to us because our youth were very thin on the ground at that stage and we needed to snag some talls. An overager like Lee was especially appealing at such a bargain price.
 

The_Steadier

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Lee has played 4 games in the last two years. Corr is 3 years younger, already played twice as many games and was a former pick 12. I don't think we'd get anywhere near the same for Lee as what Corr would cost us.

I'd say Corr is probably worth a second round pick being contracted.

Normally I'd agree, but i think GWS are a motivated seller for fringe players... contracted or not.

Due to them having a constant stream of academy players to make room for.

I get the feeling that it probably creates more headaches for them KEEPING fringe non academy players like corr, than losing them.

All things being equal- I'm sure they would prioritise keeping academy players over similarly valued regular draftees.

Otherwise over time they won't get the best kids nominating for their academy in the first place.
 

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Mat Mann

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Wrong draft - that was 2011 you have listed there.

pk12 trade/swap/deal was part of 2012 draft.
very right you are

here is the 2012 draft
12 Kristian Jaksch Greater Western Sydney Traded from St Kilda
13 Jesse Lonergan Gold Coast Traded from St Kilda, free agency compensation pick (Goddard)
14 Aidan Corr Western Sydney
15 Taylor Garner North Melbourne
16 Jackson Thurlow Geelong
17 Josh Simpson Fremantle
18 Brodie Grundy Collingwood
19 Ben Kennedy Collingwood
20 Tim Broomhead Collingwood

was a pretty bad draft only a few names beyond 20 have played many games

even worse is we had so many picks in this draft
Tom Lee+Draft picks No. 24 and 45 from Greater Western Sydney - St Kilda Draft pick No. 12
12 Tom Hickey+Draft picks No. 25 and 46 from Gold Coast - St Kilda Draft picks No. 13, 36 and 55

24 Nathan Wright St Kilda Traded from Greater Western Sydney
25 Spencer White St Kilda Traded from Gold Coast
40 Brodie Murdoch St Kilda
43 Josh Saunders St Kilda
46 Tim Membrey from Sydney Traded by St Kilda, received from Gold Coast
75 Lewis Pierce St Kilda
 

StCicatriz

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Just want to point out that using Draft Guru's trade calculator that Pick #12 for Lee and Picks #24 and #43 values Lee at Pick #64
Pick #64 is really a no risk pick - no-one could argue that Lee wasn't worth a speculator at that price. The trade was important to us because our youth were very thin on the ground at that stage and we needed to snage some talls. An overager like Lee was especially appealing at such a bargain price.
the problem with basing it on points is the opportunity cost isnt accounted for
 

Saintos

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Serious question.
Why do we even need a draft?
The NRL has an even comp that allows cellar dwellers hope and chance each year based purely on salary cap.
I'm not so sure the draft has evened out our comp.
I thinks it's there purely to suck extra mileage out of the season.
 

Bleeds_RWB

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Serious question.
Why do we even need a draft?
The NRL has an even comp that allows cellar dwellers hope and chance each year based purely on salary cap.
I'm not so sure the draft has evened out our comp.
I thinks it's there purely to suck extra mileage out of the season.

Don't they have under 18's and reserve teams as well. So it's purely development and free agent signings isn't it?
 

Bleeds_RWB

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Serious question.
Why do we even need a draft?
The NRL has an even comp that allows cellar dwellers hope and chance each year based purely on salary cap.
I'm not so sure the draft has evened out our comp.
I thinks it's there purely to suck extra mileage out of the season.
Also they have a game that doesn't change. Rules are the same. We continually tinker. Which changes demographic of players drafted. We've seen big men nearly go from the game if they can't do more than just ruck. We've seen midfield go tall. Previous years has seen drafting height over ball winning only to come back to ball winning... anyway my point is their game doesn't change. Ours continually change.
 

Mat Mann

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Serious question.
Why do we even need a draft?
The NRL has an even comp that allows cellar dwellers hope and chance each year based purely on salary cap.
I'm not so sure the draft has evened out our comp.
I thinks it's there purely to suck extra mileage out of the season.
I think the draft was worked, but then they ruin it by adding in academies, priority picks that promoted tanking, cola, GWS and CG destroyed it for a 4 years, the NRL has a very different structure below the top rung, where as the AFL has destroyed/destroying all the t2 leagues across the country. U18 to AFL is our system.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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I'm not sure what you mean
It's a fancy way of saying who we missed out on.

In the 2012 draft, well the opportunity cost was negligible. In the handful straight after #12 none have shone out & Grundy is the only one that you'd say was a significant miss. The fact that he drifted from a top 5 pick all the way to #18 couldn't have been foreseen over a month out from that draft.

Harry Hindsights may demand that it was a total stuff up but the circumstances at the time suggest that the trade in it's entirety can be more than justified.
 

Barrels

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Haven't seen much of corr, how does he compare to Marchbank?
In his draft Combine (2012) Corr was equal 5th in the 20mtr sprint (2.89s), equal 7th in the kicking efficiency test and equal 8th in the standing vertical jump. Marchbank missed the 2014 Combine.

Corr is 22, Marchbank nearly 20, and Corr has played 37 games to Marchbank's 7.

Otherwise they're about the same size and statistically pretty even (Corr's on the left)...

IMG_9976.jpg


Ultimately, Corr is a bit more of a shutdown type, and isn't made of glass, though he has had individual shoulder and ankle problems.

Haven't seen enough of him lately, but think Dempster with Roberton's size.
 

Saintos

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Also they have a game that doesn't change. Rules are the same. We continually tinker. Which changes demographic of players drafted. We've seen big men nearly go from the game if they can't do more than just ruck. We've seen midfield go tall. Previous years has seen drafting height over ball winning only to come back to ball winning... anyway my point is their game doesn't change. Ours continually change.
That's a good point, but no matter how the game changes or what development areas you have, if the salary cap was a constant for all teams, it should rein in most advantages any club would have over others.
If you have six potential champions in your u20 side how are you going to fit them all under your cap with other teams throwing money at them as well?
 
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very right you are

here is the 2012 draft
12 Kristian Jaksch Greater Western Sydney Traded from St Kilda
13 Jesse Lonergan Gold Coast Traded from St Kilda, free agency compensation pick (Goddard)
14 Aidan Corr Western Sydney
15 Taylor Garner North Melbourne
16 Jackson Thurlow Geelong
17 Josh Simpson Fremantle
18 Brodie Grundy Collingwood
19 Ben Kennedy Collingwood
20 Tim Broomhead Collingwood

was a pretty bad draft only a few names beyond 20 have played many games

even worse is we had so many picks in this draft
Tom Lee+Draft picks No. 24 and 45 from Greater Western Sydney - St Kilda Draft pick No. 12
12 Tom Hickey+Draft picks No. 25 and 46 from Gold Coast - St Kilda Draft picks No. 13, 36 and 55

24 Nathan Wright St Kilda Traded from Greater Western Sydney
25 Spencer White St Kilda Traded from Gold Coast
40 Brodie Murdoch St Kilda
43 Josh Saunders St Kilda
46 Tim Membrey from Sydney Traded by St Kilda, received from Gold Coast
75 Lewis Pierce St Kilda
Wow we won that draft
 

Saintos

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In his draft Combine (2012) Corr was equal 5th in the 20mtr sprint (2.89s), equal 7th in the kicking efficiency test and equal 8th in the standing vertical jump. Marchbank missed the 2014 Combine.

Corr is 22, Marchbank nearly 20, and Corr has played 37 games to Marchbank's 7.

Otherwise they're about the same size and statistically pretty even (Corr's on the left)...
View attachment 295725
So what you're trying to say is your round one 2017 lineup is?
 

Mat Mann

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It's a fancy way of saying who we missed out on.

In the 2012 draft, well the opportunity cost was negligible. In the handful straight after #12 none have shone out & Grundy is the only one that you'd say was a significant miss. The fact that he drifted from a top 5 pick all the way to #18 couldn't have been foreseen over a month out from that draft.

Harry Hindsights may demand that it was a total stuff up but the circumstances at the time suggest that the trade in it's entirety can be more than justified.
yeah looking at it properly with harry hindsight on my shoulder, we lost nothing doing that deal with Lee . Grundy is hardly a miss either, a bit of a meh player still, unneeded anyway as we traded for Hickey in the same year
 
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