List Mgmt. 2016 Trade and Free Agency Targets Part 4

[JG22]

Joe Baker Thomas is continuing...
Surprising but I guess he's hardly even on a list

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Joe Baker Thomas is continuing...
Surprising but I guess he's hardly even on a list

It probably is a little surprising from the club point of view.

But on the other hand.

I think it actually says a lot about the kid that despite being a long way from home; playing a foreign game and still being a long way off ever making it, that he still wants to continue at it.

Good luck to him

 

[StCicatriz]

Joe Baker Thomas is continuing...
Surprising but I guess he's hardly even on a list

Cat B rookie why not?

 

[Savatage]

So after a huge drought after Milne the club tried to get more involved with drafting rookies, but still not a lot of success.

Milne 1999: 275 Games
Jones 2006: 149 Games
Geary 2006: 141+ Games
___
Moyle 1999: 48 Games
Eddy 2006: 33 Games
Simpkin 2008: 31 Games
Chad Davis 2000: 31 Games
Rix 2004: 29 Games
Sinclair 2014: 27+ Games
Curren 2010: 25 Games
Shenton 2011: 24 Games
Minchington 2011: 23+ Games
Templeton 2013: 14 Games
Dunell 2011: 12 Games
Oliver 2000: 10 Games
Holmes 2013: 5 Games
J Gowans 1998: 4 Games
Mullins 2004: 3 Games
Miles 2007: 2 Games
Archer 2009: 1 Game
Fergason 2010: 1 Game

Weller not included in the criteria?

 

[JG22]

Cat B rookie why not?

It's worth it if he can continue to improve, otherwise it's not.

 

[Mindtraveller]

Update on the list after Shenton news;

Primary (Max. 40)
List Number # Player
1 1 Tom Hickey
2 2 Jake Carlisle
3 3 Jack Steven
4 4 Eli Templeton
5 5 Shane Savage
6 6 Sebastian Ross
7 7 Luke Dunstan
8 8 Blake Acres
9 9 Tom Lee
10 10 Nathan Freeman
11 11 Leigh Montagna
12 12 Nick Riewoldt
13 13 Jack Lonie
14 14 Jarryn Geary
15 15 Jack Billings
16 16 Jack Newnes
17 17 Dylan Roberton
18 18 Billy Longer
19 19 Sam Gilbert
20 20 David Armitage
21 22 Jade Gresham
22 23 Hugh Goddard
23 24 Sean Dempster
24 25 Sam Fisher
25 27 Josh Bruce
26 28 Tim Membrey
27 29 Jimmy Webster
28 30 Brodie Murdoch
29 31 Brandon White
30 32 Paddy McCartin
31 34 Nathan Wright
32 36 Daniel McKenzie
33 37 Bailey Rice
34 40 Jack Sinclair
35 41 Darren Minchington
36 42 Lewis Pierce
37 44 Maverick Weller
38 45 Jason Holmes
39 N/A Jack Steele
40 N/A Nathan Brown
___________________________________________
41 N/A Koby Stevens



Rookie (Max. 7)
List Number
1 33 Nick O'Kearney
2 38 Nick Coughlan
3 N/A Darragh Joyce
4 N/A Ray Connellan
5
6
7


Draft Picks
23
36
61
86
104
122
140



Out of Contract
4 Eli Templeton
9 Tom Lee
25 Sam Fisher
30 Brodie Murdoch


Available Numbers
21
26
35
39
43
46
47
48
49
50
_______________________________________


News is we are using 23, 36, and 61 at the draft so going by that...

Fisher, Templeton, Lee, Murdoch gone, in their place pick 23, 36, 61, Koby Stevens
Pick 86 - Upgrade Holmes
Picks 104, 122, 140 pass

Finish with 40 on the list (max allocation) and head into rookie draft to nab another couple players.

Coughlan?

 

[Hayes4PM]

I hope we don't delist Eli, put him on the rookie list FFS. The kid can kick properly and has worked on his inside game and tackling game in the VFL. If we give him the flick now I'll be filthy.

 

[_Maximus_12]

I dont I think the kid can play he just needs to improve his tank like Billings. AR said he lead the club for pressure acts and the club AR love that!

Unlike Billings, Minchington has shown zero ability to find the footy - absolutely zero. He's also entering his 6th season next year and given he has rarely been injured in the last 3 seasons, he should have a tank that is conducive to AFL Football by now.

Plenty of players of his size, and skill have had far fewer opportunities to what he has. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but in a position we have extraordinary depth he offers little but defensive pressure.

An average of 11 disposals is deplorable for a small fwd/mid who isn't overly damaging on the scoreboard and who's now entering his 6th season on an AFL list. He's not a kid anymore, so I'd say he's used up the development excuse.

Furthermore, we already have Nathan Wright as our defensive forward who also struggles to win a lot of the footy, but goes at the ball and the man as hard as anyone on our list and offers serious pace.
We lack outside runners, and I'm just a little perplexed as to why we would part ways with Eli and not a player like Minchington who has had ample opportunity to prove his worth at AFL level.

 

[George]

Coughlan?

Yeah?

 

[Mindtraveller]

I still find the 2 year deal for Minchington staggering. I would have thought that with a surplus of smalls, he would have been staring down the barrel of being cut this year. Yes I understand that he provides great pressure at that he has shown signs of competing at AFL level, but he has also been positively putrid to the point of being pedestrian in a number of games.

What Minchington does, he does well, but he simply doesn't find anywhere near enough of the footy and in my opinion is the worst of all of our current smalls, and has the least potential to develop and grow as a player.
I think that Billings, Gresham, Lonie and Sinclair all offer more in terms of production and potential, and Templeton has a greater ability to win the outside footy, and spread. This is the only list decision we've made in the last few years that I can really criticise, but it just doesn't add up to me.

Minchington will have a better inside game then all except Gresham. Billings isn't a small, and he showed this year he was a better small than Sinclair by getting picked ahead of him.

Watch for him to finally move into the midfield next year. Everyone always talks about low possession numbers but he isn't playing a high possession role on game day. Him and Wright are applying pressure by harassment or a tackle which anther one of our players will take advantage of. Sinclair doesn't get that many more disposals and had more midfield time.

Everyone saying that they're not getting enough possessions they should be dropped needs to look at the bigger picture. Otherwise let's drop Geary, Dempster, Bruce and anyone else having 10 possession games.

I guess that's why Sam Fisher didn't get a new contract...

 

[StCicatriz]

It's worth it if he can continue to improve, otherwise it's not.

Its a free list spot on minimum wage. Why not use it even if its speculative

 

[Mindtraveller]

Yeah?

Woops missed him

 

[stfan]

So after a huge drought after Milne the club tried to get more involved with drafting rookies, but still not a lot of success.

Milne 1999: 275 Games
Jones 2006: 149 Games
Geary 2006: 141+ Games
___
Moyle 1999: 48 Games
Eddy 2006: 33 Games
Simpkin 2008: 31 Games
Chad Davis 2000: 31 Games
Rix 2004: 29 Games
Sinclair 2014: 27+ Games
Curren 2010: 25 Games
Shenton 2011: 24 Games
Minchington 2011: 23+ Games
Templeton 2013: 14 Games
Dunell 2011: 12 Games
Oliver 2000: 10 Games
Holmes 2013: 5 Games
J Gowans 1998: 4 Games
Mullins 2004: 3 Games
Miles 2007: 2 Games
Archer 2009: 1 Game
Fergason 2010: 1 Game

Weller 58 games and many more yet to come.

 

[stfan]

Trout mentions pick 10 in the rookie draft. Is that a sign chips isnt going on?

If we take 10, there could still be room for another rookie as:

OUT: Saunders and Payne delisted. Holmes elevated
IN: Irish lad

= two vacancies = either new player plus say Fish or 2 new players or Fish and another delisted Saint

 

[Highlander35]

If we take 10, there could still be room for another rookie as:

OUT: Saunders and Payne delisted. Holmes elevated
IN: Irish lad

= two vacancies = either new player plus say Fish or 2 new players or Fish and another delisted Saint

Holmes was a Cat B Rookie.

It's 44 between the Primary List and Category A Rookies, split 38 and 6, 39 and 5 or 40 and 4. We also have 3 Cat B Rookies available, which can be alternate athletes, internationals (of which 1 can be Irish) and Underrepresented/Indigenous Players from our zone who are not picked in the Main/Preseason/Rookie Drafts.

So we've got 1 "real" rookie spot open.

 

[StCicatriz]

If we take 10, there could still be room for another rookie as:

OUT: Saunders and Payne delisted. Holmes elevated
IN: Irish lad

= two vacancies = either new player plus say Fish or 2 new players or Fish and another delisted Saint

One of the irish guys has to take a normal rookie spot and holmes was a cat b rookie. So one selection

 

[_Maximus_12]

Minchington will have a better inside game then all except Gresham. Billings isn't a small, and he showed this year he was a better small than Sinclair by getting picked ahead of him.

Watch for him to finally move into the midfield next year. Everyone always talks about low possession numbers but he isn't playing a high possession role on game day. Him and Wright are applying pressure by harassment or a tackle which anther one of our players will take advantage of. Sinclair doesn't get that many more disposals and had more midfield time.

Everyone saying that they're not getting enough possessions they should be dropped needs to look at the bigger picture. Otherwise let's drop Geary, Dempster, Bruce and anyone else having 10 possession games.

I guess that's why Sam Fisher didn't get a new contract...

Who's Minchington going to push out of our midfield rotation?

Armitage - No.
Steven - No.
Steele - No.
Gresham - No.
Stevens - No.
Ross - No.
Acres - No.
Billings - No.
Weller - No.
Montagna - No.
Dunstan - No.

There's a list of guys who will play through our midfield next year. Heck he's probably behind Sam Gilbert, Shane Savage & Jack Newnes as midfielders as well. For mine, Lonie is ahead of Minchington as well, as he has enormous amounts of talent, and an extremely high football IQ.

Therefore it comes down to Sinclair, Minch & Templeton. Sinclair was already contracted for next year, has outstanding poise and has shown more ability at AFL level than Minchington, despite being extremely poor defensively.
So it's Templeton v Minchington.
Outside v Inside. A need v A surplus. IMO neither of them are AFL Standard at the moment, but Eli offers something we are lacking and that's a hard running outside player. That is why I am perplexed at the contract extension of Minchington. I'm happy for him to prove me wrong, in fact I would love him too, but for him to continue to play as a pressure forward he needs to win more ball, and have a greater impact on the scoreboard. Otherwise we'll have another Robert Eddy, or Andrew McQualter.

As far as the 'drop players who have less than 10 disposals' argument goes. Dempster & Bruce & Geary bring far more impact than their respective disposal counts (which are still higher than Minchingtons) and have a greater impact through 4 quarters of each game that they have played than Minchington has had in 95% of his. I understand the pressure argument, I do, but at 24 next year he needs to add another string to his bow if he's to justify his spot in the side and on our list.

 

[Barrels]

Anyone know how big JBT is now?

Acknowledging he's in the foreground for comparative purposes, he looks roughly the same size as Tommy Lee.



With thanks to dsav.

 

[cooperrules]

wheres the mountain at?

 

[_Maximus_12]

Anyone know how big JBT is now?

Acknowledging he's in the foreground for comparative purposes, he looks roughly the same size as Tommy Lee.

View attachment 304810

With thanks to dsav.

Sinclair is listed as 180cm. JBT looks to maybe have 10-12cm on him and whilst he's solid he could do with some more size particularly through his shoulders. But he's a good sized project player for us, and with a big preseason could benefit from holding down a key post at Sandy regularly, next year.

 

[Barrels]

wheres the mountain at?

Coming to Muhammad.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Think it pretty much does...

The other little criptic messages from the interview was Nat slipping in that we liked SPP at 23 which Trout glossed over and that Trout was really impressed with Griffin Logue at the combine.

Yeah the SPP comment was interesting. Is it Nat has a love for him or she's heard us being a fan? I hadn't heard the link before.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

wheres the mountain at?

He's at Brad Sewell's Australian Rules Football College.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-03-20/former-hawks-brad-sewell-michael-osborne-launch-footy-school

While at Hawthorn Sewell would've had experience with Hills, so this may be a natural progression

 

[Hayes4PM]

North cut Joel Tippett. Sort of a fair enough move by a club about to start a rebuild, but could get a depth/rookie spot at another club.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Unlike Billings, Minchington has shown zero ability to find the footy - absolutely zero. He's also entering his 6th season next year and given he has rarely been injured in the last 3 seasons, he should have a tank that is conducive to AFL Football by now.

Plenty of players of his size, and skill have had far fewer opportunities to what he has. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but in a position we have extraordinary depth he offers little but defensive pressure.

An average of 11 disposals is deplorable for a small fwd/mid who isn't overly damaging on the scoreboard and who's now entering his 6th season on an AFL list. He's not a kid anymore, so I'd say he's used up the development excuse.

Furthermore, we already have Nathan Wright as our defensive forward who also struggles to win a lot of the footy, but goes at the ball and the man as hard as anyone on our list and offers serious pace.
We lack outside runners, and I'm just a little perplexed as to why we would part ways with Eli and not a player like Minchington who has had ample opportunity to prove his worth at AFL level.

Minchington has shown he can win a heap of the footy when played as a midfielder at VFL level but he has had very few opportunities in the middle at AFL level. I suspect this is mainly because he doesn't yet have the tank for it; in round 4 against Hawthorn he played more of a midfield role and had 14 disposals (9 contested) and four clearances from 66% TOG. Against Carlton he had 15 disposals and 5 clearances from 73% TOG and then against North Melbourne 15 disposals and 5 tackles from 68% TOG. Now I'm not saying these are amazing stats but if he improves his tank to the point that he can run out 80% of the game sharing his time between midfield and half forward then we could have a fast, skilled, tough player good for 18 disposals and a goal per game. Minch is still on the list because he has attributes we lack and he has a great attitude. Injuries have slowed his development but if he keeps on gradually improving then at the very worst he's a great depth player to keep the likes of Billings and Dunstan honest.