List Mgmt. 2016 Trade Thread

[atlaser]

Saints list for the most part is in the contention bracket for age/games played. I really don't get the up and coming narrative with them.

www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-st-kilda-saints?year=2016&sby=15

Basically every player i would consider to be a part of a 22 playing deep in finals is 25 or younger and has played less than 100 games, not sure what you're on about. Averages are useless to look at stuff like this. List profile is skewed

 

[Theseventhhamster]

www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-st-kilda-saints?year=2016&sby=15

Basically every player i would consider to be a part of a 22 playing deep in finals is 25 or younger and has played less than 100 games, not sure what you're on about. Averages are useless to look at stuff like this. List profile is skewed

Top 4 in your b + f were veterans, 11 of the top 15 have played over 90 games. Like I said it's a typical list for a team around their contending prime.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Melbourne

Rank|Player|Votes|Gms|Career|Age|Top 10
\1st|Viney, Jack|407|21|70|22y136d|2
\2nd|Jones, Nathan|399|22|223|28y220d|8
\3rd|Gawn, Max|374|22|61|24y241d|1
\4th|Tyson, Dom|357|21|71|23y80d|2
\5th|Watts, Jack|308|22|137|25y154d|3
\6th|McDonald, Tom|306|22|104|23y344d|5
\7th|Vince, Bernie|287|21|193|30y330d|5
\8th|Hogan, Jesse|261|21|41|21y197d|2
\9th|Jetta, Neville|260|21|94|26y197d|2
\10th|Kent, Dean|235|20|52|22y185d|1
\11th|Hunt, Jayden|230|19|19|21y146d|-
\12th|Petracca, Christian|171|17|17|20y236d|-
\13th|McDonald, Oscar|159|15|17|20y162d|-
\14th|Wagner, Josh|158|14|14|22y64d|-
\15th|Garlett, Jeff|152|17|146|27y24d|3
\16th|Stretch, Billy|149|16|27|19y354d|-
\17th|Bugg, Tomas|148|18|83|23y144d|1
\18th|van den Berg, Aaron|128|14|28|24y177d|-
\19th|Harmes, James|127|19|27|20y327d|-

St.Kilda

Rank|Player|Votes|Gms|Career|Age|Top 10
\1st|Steven, Jack|172|22|134|26y153d|5
\2nd|Geary, Jarryn|157|21|141|28y66d|4
\3rd|Riewoldt, Nick|153|21|319|33y316d|13
\4th|Montagna, Leigh|127|22|271|32y300d|11
\5th|Newnes, Jack|125|22|91|23y186d|2
\6th|Ross, Sebastian|122|22|59|23y113d|1
\7th|Weller, Maverick|117|22|90|24y197d|2
\8th|Hickey, Tom E.|102|20|61|25y175d|1
\9th|Membrey, Tim|99|17|30|22y94d|1
\=10th|Dempster, Sean|96|19|222|32y221d|6
\=10th|Armitage, David|96|22|150|28y73d|5
\12th|Gilbert, Sam|93|22|179|30y9d|2
\13th|Savage, Shane|87|21|111|25y236d|-
\14th|Roberton, Dylan|83|18|102|25y68d|2
\15th|Bruce, Josh|61|22|68|24y81d|1

 

[atlaser]

Melbourne

Rank|Player|Votes|Gms|Career|Age|Top 10
\1st|Viney, Jack|407|21|70|22y136d|2
\2nd|Jones, Nathan|399|22|223|28y220d|8
\3rd|Gawn, Max|374|22|61|24y241d|1
\4th|Tyson, Dom|357|21|71|23y80d|2
\5th|Watts, Jack|308|22|137|25y154d|3
\6th|McDonald, Tom|306|22|104|23y344d|5
\7th|Vince, Bernie|287|21|193|30y330d|5
\8th|Hogan, Jesse|261|21|41|21y197d|2
\9th|Jetta, Neville|260|21|94|26y197d|2
\10th|Kent, Dean|235|20|52|22y185d|1
\11th|Hunt, Jayden|230|19|19|21y146d|-
\12th|Petracca, Christian|171|17|17|20y236d|-
\13th|McDonald, Oscar|159|15|17|20y162d|-
\14th|Wagner, Josh|158|14|14|22y64d|-
\15th|Garlett, Jeff|152|17|146|27y24d|3
\16th|Stretch, Billy|149|16|27|19y354d|-
\17th|Bugg, Tomas|148|18|83|23y144d|1
\18th|van den Berg, Aaron|128|14|28|24y177d|-
\19th|Harmes, James|127|19|27|20y327d|-

St.Kilda

Rank|Player|Votes|Gms|Career|Age|Top 10
\1st|Steven, Jack|172|22|134|26y153d|5
\2nd|Geary, Jarryn|157|21|141|28y66d|4
\3rd|Riewoldt, Nick|153|21|319|33y316d|13
\4th|Montagna, Leigh|127|22|271|32y300d|11
\5th|Newnes, Jack|125|22|91|23y186d|2
\6th|Ross, Sebastian|122|22|59|23y113d|1
\7th|Weller, Maverick|117|22|90|24y197d|2
\8th|Hickey, Tom E.|102|20|61|25y175d|1
\9th|Membrey, Tim|99|17|30|22y94d|1
\=10th|Dempster, Sean|96|19|222|32y221d|6
\=10th|Armitage, David|96|22|150|28y73d|5
\12th|Gilbert, Sam|93|22|179|30y9d|2
\13th|Savage, Shane|87|21|111|25y236d|-
\14th|Roberton, Dylan|83|18|102|25y68d|2
\15th|Bruce, Josh|61|22|68|24y81d|1

True but that's the reason they're still there, they are all good footballers. But the "up and coming" players will have no trouble taking the reins in the next few years, is the point.

I'm going to avoid having a go at Melbourne, but surely you realise that all of the players you mentioned have been at the saints for 10 years, whereas Melbourne as we know cleaned out the senior blokes at once. Not comparable in that respect

 

[Theseventhhamster]

True but that's the reason they're still there, they are all good footballers. But the "up and coming" players will have no trouble taking the reins in the next few years, is the point.

I'm going to avoid having a go at Melbourne, but surely you realise that all of the players you mentioned have been at the saints for 10 years, whereas Melbourne as we know cleaned out the senior blokes at once. Not comparable in that respect

The point was that StKilda is a typical aged team for a competitive team rather than an up and coming team. This is what I've shown above, you haven't refuted anything I've posted.

 

[LeverPuller]

True but that's the reason they're still there, they are all good footballers. But the "up and coming" players will have no trouble taking the reins in the next few years, is the point.

I'm going to avoid having a go at Melbourne, but surely you realise that all of the players you mentioned have been at the saints for 10 years, whereas Melbourne as we know cleaned out the senior blokes at once. Not comparable in that respect

The concern everyone has is what happens with Roo, Montagna, Fisher and Dempster going. Roo is still huge structurally, Joey an important leader and both Fisher and Dempster your KPDs. Although Carlisle is coming in, Goddard is officially both unproven and seriously hurt and there really isn't anyone else. Your forwards are great, your midfield has a bit to be sorted (feels that you have 3 mids and a lot of prospects) but your backline is questionable at best. Couple that with four departing vets and of course there are queries.

That said, the Saints have proven me wrong so far.

 

[schmuttt]

Saints have a significantly better gameplan and system out there than we do. You can make an argument about young talent but they work a lot better as a team. Even in some of our wins this year I thought we should have played a lot better (Notably Brisbane and Collingwood both times).

 

[hulkhogan1]

Saints have a significantly better gameplan and system out there than we do. You can make an argument about young talent but they work a lot better as a team. Even in some of our wins this year I thought we should have played a lot better (Notably Brisbane and Collingwood both times).

Take out Roo and Montagna out of the equation and will they be as good? Watch when their old timers leave, so will their minds.. too reliant on the older heads.

 

[mrmonkey]

Saints have a significantly better gameplan and system out there than we do. You can make an argument about young talent but they work a lot better as a team. Even in some of our wins this year I thought we should have played a lot better (Notably Brisbane and Collingwood both times).

I agree and the game plan works really well on melbourne. In comparison of our seasons, the reason st kilda had more wins was the fact they won all the games they should of won (maybe the gold coast loss is the exception) melbourne had losses like carlton and essendon. However I think overall melbourne had a more competitive season bar the geelong match.

 

[LeverPuller]

Saints have a significantly better gameplan and system out there than we do. You can make an argument about young talent but they work a lot better as a team. Even in some of our wins this year I thought we should have played a lot better (Notably Brisbane and Collingwood both times).

Agree on the game plan but I still question whether the list will get them to success. Game plan too. Didn't win outside of Melbourne in 2016; only won 2/20 outside of Melbourne since Richo appointed.

By comparison we won 3 games outside of Melbourne this year. Our problem is consistency, which is easier to fix than talent limitations. The Saints effectively need 4 backmen, a crumbing forward and a couple more mids. Furthermore, they also need a new Riewoldt - he's still so very important to them structurally. Watch how they play and how they use him in space on the wings as a target because of his aerobic capacity - he lurks as a forward target but then bolts into space on a wing to clunk one. None of Membrey, Bruce or McCartin have that sort of impact.

 

[harry000]

Agree on the game plan but I still question whether the list will get them to success. Game plan too. Didn't win outside of Melbourne in 2016; only won 2/20 outside of Melbourne since Richo appointed.

By comparison we won 3 games outside of Melbourne this year. Our problem is consistency, which is easier to fix than talent limitations. The Saints effectively need 4 backmen, a crumbing forward and a couple more mids. Furthermore, they also need a new Riewoldt - he's still so very important to them structurally. Watch how they play and how they use him in space on the wings as a target because of his aerobic capacity - he lurks as a forward target but then bolts into space on a wing to clunk one. None of Membrey, Bruce or McCartin have that sort of impact.

None of Membrey, Bruce or Mccartin will be as effective without Riewoldt dragging T Mac types up the ground either! How many seagull goals did Membrey kick by slipping in behind after the main defender has been dragged out by Riewoldt

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Saints have a good list - it's hard to predict what losing those experienced guys will do to them in the next year or two.

They play well as a team and have a lot of role players and good players coming through, I dont know if they have any potential stars outside of McCartin at this stage.

Bruce maybe.

I think our list has more depth of elite talent.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I don't see how anyone can seriosuly compare the talent at St Kilda to Oliver/Petracca/Brayshaw/Stretch/Tyson/Salem/Hunt/Viney/Kent + McDonald/McDonald/Hogan/Weideman. It's apples and oranges. Even ANB would walk into their midfield.

 

[Down the throat]

Saints have a good list - it's hard to predict what losing those experienced guys will do to them in the next year or two.

They play well as a team and have a lot of role players and good players coming through, I dont know if they have any potential stars outside of McCartin at this stage.

Bruce maybe.

I think our list has more depth of elite talent.

I agree - in terms of youngsters, we have more cream, but i think they have more cake (though seeing the success of our late picks this year, that may not be true).

PS - out of our midfield rotation, who does Steele replace?

 

[The Dr]

I think we have a solid young list, however i think the Saints are building a better one. Steele is a gun and Carlisle will sure up the one weakness they have, their backline. I'd back them in for the 8 for sure next year.

Surprised we didnt have a serious crack at Steele as well.

I'm absolutely backing the Saints for the 8 next year. Although, I prefer our list for the medium and long term.

Carlisle and Steele will really help them.

 

[LeverPuller]

I'm absolutely backing the Saints for the 8 next year. Although, I prefer our list for the medium and long term.

Carlisle and Steele will really help them.

Carlisle in but Fisher and/or Dempster out. Steele does help but there's still queries.

 

[Proper Gander]

Genuinely curious thing on Bigfooty. Why are Saints fans so touchy? It doesn't even have to be a criticism. It doesn't even have to be an implied criticism. But there always seems to be someone lurking about ready to jump in with BUT WE ARE A YOUNG TEAM!!!!!!!!

 

[harry000]

Genuinely curious thing on Bigfooty. Why are Saints fans so touchy? It doesn't even have to be a criticism. It doesn't even have to be an implied criticism. But there always seems to be someone lurking about ready to jump in with BUT WE ARE A YOUNG TEAM!!!!!!!!

Then on the other hand you have us Dees supporters like... "YOUF IS NOT AN EXCUSE WIN SOME ****ING GAMES YOU USELESS campaignerS"

 

[Russian Demon]

I feel like every game against the Saints, its their older players that are the difference. However against everyone else, their younger players step up.

I think they will prob plateau next year. Extra experience in kids cancels out older players dropping off.

 

[schmuttt]

We've got the capability to go past them next year but not sure if we will. I do rate them as a pretty decent side, it is hard to justify saying you are a better team than someone who has rolled you 14 times in a row.

 

[Cannon82]

We've got the capability to go past them next year but not sure if we will. I do rate them as a pretty decent side, it is hard to justify saying you are a better team than someone who has rolled you 14 times in a row.

Ooooo, the planets are aligning!

 

[Demon 16]

Ooooo, the planets are aligning!

One of my favourite sports quotes of all time, along with this one from George Best;

 

[Sam Guest]

apparently we are in for Grant Birchall what will it take to get it done?

 

[Theseventhhamster]

apparently we are in for Grant Birchall what will it take to get it done?

We are bringing in two Bombers to play half back and already have several other back flankers on the team. Birchall makes no sense, dude is near done too.

 

[VanDemonxx]

apparently we are in for Grant Birchall what will it take to get it done?

What? No way. Source? Hawthorn wouldn't let him go