2016 US Presidential Election - Trump vs Clinton? - Part 1

Who will win the election??


  • Total voters
    181
Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Posts
27,860
Likes
20,196
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Fremantle, WA, Associates
Russia has been unhappy about NATO and the EU since both of their respective formations. The US establishment has been ardently supportive for many years in the expansion of both institutions, something that is unlikely to change, no matter the President.

What exactly Trump's foreign policy positions are quite difficult to comprehend. The campaign video that hazard posted before invokes "the line in the sand" which is at the core of the conservative foreign policy establishments problem with Obama ie. Obama was unwilling to use force to solve problems when the threat was dangled. Trump has on some occasions advocated for force and other times said Iraq was a mistake, using force is a mistake, our allies need to sort out their own problems etc.

I must admit a sympathy for some of the domestic ideas of Trumps national regeneration but he would be a lightweight liability in foreign policy terms. Not strong enough or well versed enough on the detail to actually push back against the fairly hardwired agenda of the establishment.
Except Russia wasn't Russia when NATO was formed, and NATO and the EEC were natural responses to a real threat that encompassed a far greater amount of land and population than the Russian Federation does today. What purpose does NATO exist for today? When did Turkey begin to border the North Atlantic? How could Russia not see the EU's expansion towards Ukraine and NATO's into the Caucasus as anything other than an attempt to encircle it?

I don't think Trump will be too fussed with foreign policy (aside from trade) in his first term.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Happy Mastenator

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Posts
13,977
Likes
15,083
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
Except Russia wasn't Russia when NATO was formed, and NATO and the EEC were natural responses to a real threat that encompassed a far greater amount of land and population than the Russian Federation does today. What purpose does NATO exist for today? When did Turkey begin to border the North Atlantic? How could Russia not see the EU's expansion towards Ukraine and NATO's into the Caucasus as anything other than an attempt to encircle it?

I don't think Trump will be too fussed with foreign policy (aside from trade) in his first term.
Why would Russia care unless they were looking at expansion or wanted to use the threat of military force against their neighbors?
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Posts
2,062
Likes
1,559
AFL Club
Geelong
Shitty photoshop, means it must be true...
I'm not sure what building a wall is going to achieve, especially when it covers such a vast area. Already a substantial number cross over the border through tunnels. The wall might reduce the rate of infux but that's it.

I think addressing pertinent issues such as American's insatiable thirst for illegal recreational drugs that has created a lucrative criminal billion dollar industry that wreaks chaos across both sides of the border would be considerably more helpful.
 
Last edited:

Happy Mastenator

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Posts
13,977
Likes
15,083
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
GOD EMPEROR TURNS SMALL LOAN OF 1 MILLION DOLLARS INTO 10 BILLION

genius SANDERS TURNS A SMALL LOAN OF 200 MILLION DOLLARS INTO A FAILED CAMPAIGN

Happy Mastenator SexyBlueGirl
Let's wait for the tax returns. Self reporting within vague ranges doesn't inspire one with confidence. Normally (see Romney) people try to downplay their wealth, trump however is self assessing way way up.
 

coerced

Cancelled
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Posts
2,184
Likes
2,367
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Theyve been trying to label Sanders supporters as white supremacists

Because nazis always vote for jewish socialists.
Strangely enough, one of the unmentioned reasons for why African-Americans might not be voting for Sanders is that there are a disproportionate number of them who are virulently anti-Semitic. This is especially so for the political leaders among African-Americans (cf Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, Professor Griff among others).

Would not be at all surprising if Hillary counted more anti-Semites in her following than all the other candidates put together.
 

SexyBlueGirl

Premiership Player
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
3,666
Likes
417
Location
Out in the streets
AFL Club
Carlton
Sanders is proving himself to be a self centered arsehole more and more each day. No condemnation of the violence that occurred, and then crying over the democratic party following the rules that had been clearly laid out.

He needs to pull his head in and consider whether his own sense of entitlement is worth giving the GOP a greater chance of winning in November. If he wanted to run as an independent he'd basically be declaring that he was ok with a Trump presidency. As much as he's claiming he's bought in people and the people support him he's still over 3 million votes behind Hillary. The fact is more people in the primary process clearly support her.
There was no violence. A line of cops were there, no arrests. Please show me evidence of this violence you speak of

The nays sounded a lot louder than the yays, so what about that rule? Oh right, it didn't suit them.
 

SexyBlueGirl

Premiership Player
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
3,666
Likes
417
Location
Out in the streets
AFL Club
Carlton
Sanders isn't taking the crap that happened at the Nevada caucus lying down:

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/statement-nevada/

He holds a huge amount of power. Yet the Clinton camp (or more specifically the Democratic establishment as a whole) don't seem to realise this. They should be doing everything within their power to work with Sanders, appeal to those issues and get his base onside. Instead they're doing everything in their power, including rigging the voting system, to not just beat him but show him and his supporters how much they're loathed by the party. If they keep this up I think there's more and more chance that Sanders will go nuclear and run as an independent. That would end Clinton's chances of getting into the whitehouse.
Clinton is at heart an authoritarian... like Trump except more closeted. She will not want to bend one iota to the demands of the Bernie camp. Her position is that because she got more votes, the 45% of the base that voted for more progressive change can be safely dismissed. Their views do not count. They lost. Hillary gets to dictate the platform.

Clinton has also been actively courting the anti-Trump right-wingers from the Republican establishment. THAT, is who she is trying to appeal to. If that does not send warning signs to even the most in-the-tank Hillarians, that's a big problem.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Posts
27,860
Likes
20,196
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Fremantle, WA, Associates
Why would Russia care unless they were looking at expansion or wanted to use the threat of military force against their neighbors?
Because they expect to be invaded. Russian foreign policy over the years is built upon the expectation of invasion, and every time that expectation proves true, it gives them more reason to double down on that belief.
 

SexyBlueGirl

Premiership Player
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
3,666
Likes
417
Location
Out in the streets
AFL Club
Carlton

SexyBlueGirl

Premiership Player
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
3,666
Likes
417
Location
Out in the streets
AFL Club
Carlton
I think addressing pertinent issues such as American's insatiable thirst for illegal recreational drugs that has created a lucrative criminal billion dollar industry that wreaks chaos across both sides of the border would be considerably more helpful.
Great idea... a war on drugs. Should tell the DEA to get right on that one lol.
 

hazard

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Posts
2,382
Likes
3,982
Location
Europe
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Exers

smokingjacket

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Posts
3,521
Likes
3,588
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool
Except Russia wasn't Russia when NATO was formed, and NATO and the EEC were natural responses to a real threat that encompassed a far greater amount of land and population than the Russian Federation does today. What purpose does NATO exist for today? When did Turkey begin to border the North Atlantic? How could Russia not see the EU's expansion towards Ukraine and NATO's into the Caucasus as anything other than an attempt to encircle it?

I don't think Trump will be too fussed with foreign policy (aside from trade) in his first term.
Either active encirclement or the natural outgrowth of countries eager to join the liberal order that despite uneven distribution, is still creating and managing all the wealth. Depending on who you ask. Russia took the Ukraine for granted and assumed ethnic loyalty in the Greater Slavic Union stood over self interest. Ukrainian oligarchs prefer London to Kiev.

NATO is just as much about intelligence and training.
 
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Posts
27,860
Likes
20,196
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Fremantle, WA, Associates
Either active encirclement or the natural outgrowth of countries eager to join the liberal order that despite uneven distribution, is still creating and managing all the wealth.
They don't sound mutually exclusive to me. They are encircling the country that wants no part in the liberal order because of what said order did to the country in the 90s.
 

smokingjacket

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Posts
3,521
Likes
3,588
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool
They don't sound mutually exclusive to me. They are encircling the country that wants no part in the liberal order because of what said order did to the country in the 90s.
My point. Two sides of the same coin. EU wants true hegemonic status and the US wants to keep Russia down until there's not enough cold warriors left to care. It's just how you phrase it, encirclement/containment or the more benevolent expansion of liberalism.
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Posts
2,062
Likes
1,559
AFL Club
Geelong
Great idea... a war on drugs. Should tell the DEA to get right on that one lol.
I didn't say anything about a 'war' on drugs. I was under the impression that that's what been happening for the past 50 years or so. I don't claim to have the answers but clearly prohibiting something (i.e 1920s, ) and creating a lucrative black market that serves to make a fortune for criminals isn't working.
 

Happy Mastenator

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Posts
13,977
Likes
15,083
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
You mean the financials, Tax Returns won't have anything regarding his assets in them.
They'll show his income which will give us a lot better idea than the eleventy million billion dollars he's claiming in these docs. The financials required is the document he's just submitted, it's useless at giving a real picture as you can fudge the numbers significantly.
 

JoseMourinho

Manchester United Manager
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Posts
24,224
Likes
23,837
Location
Manchester
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Vikings, Wild, MU, Twolves
They'll show his income which will give us a lot better idea than the eleventy million billion dollars he's claiming in these docs. The financials required is the document he's just submitted, it's useless at giving a real picture as you can fudge the numbers significantly.
His networth is assets minus liabilities. A tax return will reveal nothing of his assets or liabilities but everything to do with his income, you rather the financials which accompany the tax return.

You will only get an indication of his assets from the depreciation schedule in the tax return but even that doesn't disclose the liabilities associated with them.
 

Happy Mastenator

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Posts
13,977
Likes
15,083
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
His networth is assets minus liabilities. A tax return will reveal nothing of his assets or liabilities but everything to do with his income, you rather the financials which accompany the tax return.

You will only get an indication of his assets from the depreciation schedule in the tax return but even that doesn't disclose the liabilities associated with them.
But he won't be disclosing that.... The best you'll get is the self assessment rubbish he's just lodged. The tax return will show how full of shit that submission was.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom