2016 US Presidential Election - Trump vs Clinton? - Part 1

Who will win the election??


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TheMightyEagles

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He didn't even need to stumble into his wealth. He was literally born into it.

Its the thing that requires the absolute least amount of agency in a human being's life.

And that's the thing he bases his perceived authority on. And the weak lap it up.
If that was the case, then anyone with half a brain born into a well-to-do family would be a billionaire. There are only 1,810 billionaires in the world. It's simply not true to say that it would have been a cake walk for him.

Even if you take the view that he could have made more money by investing in a passive index fund (I don't, I believe that his father maintained control over the majority of his wealth), it still takes a lot of balls and self control to do that over decades. The fact that he has lived the high life for so long also suggests that he would have been worth a lot more if he had chosen to live a Buffett-style existence until now.
 

VineyIsLORD

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If that was the case, then anyone with half a brain born into a well-to-do family would be a billionaire. There are only 1,810 billionaires in the world. It's simply not true to say that it would have been a cake walk for him.

Even if you take the view that he could have made more money by investing in a passive index fund (I don't, I believe that his father maintained control over the majority of his wealth), it still takes a lot of balls and self control to do that over decades. The fact that he has lived the high life for so long also suggests that he would have been worth a lot more if he had chosen to live a Buffett-style existence until now.
He wasn't born into a well to do family.

He was born into a ridiculously wealthy family.

Jamie Packer level of luck.
 

Cooldude

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If that was the case, then anyone with half a brain born into a well-to-do family would be a billionaire. There are only 1,810 billionaires in the world. It's simply not true to say that it would have been a cake walk for him.

Even if you take the view that he could have made more money by investing in a passive index fund (I don't, I believe that his father maintained control over the majority of his wealth), it still takes a lot of balls and self control to do that over decades. The fact that he has lived the high life for so long also suggests that he would have been worth a lot more if he had chosen to live a Buffett-style existence until now.
Tell me how many well-to-do families can afford to give their son at a minimum of 14 mil to start his business, and that's in the 70s, then have his dad pump money continually into his projects thereafter (then get big part of his inheritance when he passed). You're making it sound like Trump is doing something many people tried but failed at which is simply not true

The guy has used scammy business models and ripping off investors to get to where he is, and on the way bankrupted 4 companies and got kicked out legally as CEO once, truly smart businessmen don't do that. At best he is a truly smart sociopath who does shit things, exploit people to get ahead, but to spin it as a positive for the dude is just scratching the barrel. For all the shit Clinton copped (deservedly), to let Trump off the hook for these would be the ultimate display of bias. A man with that business record coupled with his experience (lack thereof) and child temperament shouldn't be fit to hold office
 

TheMightyEagles

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C'mon now, you can come out and admit you are really pro-Trump, just as I am fine with saying I hate his guts, everytime you post it's always to spin things in his favour. No need to be ashamed

Btw anyone who's known Trump or see how he behaves for at least the past ten years would know he has always talked like a buffoon, it isn't deliberate, it literally is what the man is about. Ask people who worked for him, same thing. Anyone who thinks it's a deliberate ploy for him to speak stupid has not been in the loop for too long
Sure, I haven't hidden that I would prefer Trump to Hillary and it has influenced my posts in this thread. For example I disagree that he is a racist (otherwise I wouldn't support him). That said I criticize him when I disagree with him, such as his hard line views on deportations. Its fine if you hate him as I said previously, I see where it comes from, but I just think its objectively untrue that he's a simpleton.

Even Romney, who hates Trump's guts, agrees that Trump's rhetorical style is crafted. Link: http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Romney-Trump-november-elections/2016/07/30/id/741336/.

"You have to give Donald Trump credit, he was able to bring a rhetoric and a style that he had perfected over his career to the political sphere and connect with people and become the nominee," Romney told Murphy. "Despite the fact that I and a lot of other people thought he would not be an ideal nominee, he is. At this stage, it's rougher going, but I can't predict what's gonna happen."
 

TheMightyEagles

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Tell me how many well-to-do families can afford to give their son at a minimum of 14 mil to start his business, and that's in the 70s, then have his dad pump money continually into his projects thereafter (then get big part of his inheritance when he passed). You're making it sound like Trump is doing something many people tried but failed at which is simply not true

The guy has used scammy business models and ripping off investors to get to where he is, and on the way bankrupted 4 companies and got kicked out legally as CEO once, truly smart businessmen don't do that. At best he is a truly smart sociopath who does shit things, exploit people to get ahead, but to spin it as a positive for the dude is just scratching the barrel. For all the shit Clinton copped (deservedly), to let Trump off the hook for these would be the ultimate display of bias. A man with that business record coupled with his experience (lack thereof) and child temperament shouldn't be fit to hold office
Let's assume the 14 million number is accurate, I cannot be bothered looking into it. How many people manage to turn it into billions of dollars after living the high life? Very few, it takes talent. Even taking into account inflation, it is much harder to turn 100 million into 1 billion than it is to turn 1 million into 10 million. It is also very hard to build a successful billion dollar enterprise essentially from scratch - that's why a lot of rich people go into venture capital (and accept a high failure rate) rather than trying to start businesses themselves.

Cannot be bothered going through whether his business was a scam or not, I think its a stretch to say that although my original point was that his rhetorical style is persuasive. Persuasive people can be con artists. You still need to be smart to pull it off.
 

happy_eagle

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That's a lot of clicking, some of these are over 200k
You don't know a great deal about computers if you think the way to hack a poll is to continuously click. Folks over at r/the_donald would have scripts that generate votes on a wide scale. Luckily most of these people dont or cant vote
 

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Cooldude

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Sure, I haven't hidden that I would prefer Trump to Hillary and it has influenced my posts in this thread. For example I disagree that he is a racist (otherwise I wouldn't support him). That said I criticize him when I disagree with him, such as his hard line views on deportations. Its fine if you hate him as I said previously, I see where it comes from, but I just think its objectively untrue that he's a simpleton.

Even Romney, who hates Trump's guts, agrees that Trump's rhetorical style is crafted. Link: http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Romney-Trump-november-elections/2016/07/30/id/741336/.
If you still think Trump isn't racist then you might wanna actually start doing those researches that you can't be bothered doing......

Not for the first time that Romney is wrong, ask people and workers who deal with him in private, he is exactly the same as he is outwardly in public. He is just being Trump, it isn't really crafted, just talking like that comes naturally to him. In fact it takes him more effort to talk like a normal human being, like the first 20 mins of the debate, then we know how it went when the real Trump came out

Let's assume the 14 million number is accurate, I cannot be bothered looking into it. How many people manage to turn it into billions of dollars after living the high life? Very few, it takes talent. Even taking into account inflation, it is much harder to turn 100 million into 1 billion than it is to turn 1 million into 10 million. It is also very hard to build a successful billion dollar enterprise essentially from scratch - that's why a lot of rich people go into venture capital (and accept a high failure rate) rather than trying to start businesses themselves.

Cannot be bothered going through whether his business was a scam or not, I think its a stretch to say that although my original point was that his rhetorical style is persuasive. Persuasive people can be con artists. You still need to be smart to pull it off.
Btw his net worth is continually disputed and there are some good figures that show he isn't a billionaire, and even Trump himself admitted to inflating his own net worth (heck, ask people who worked with him, they say he always overexaggerate every single figure he comes across with every single asset he owns). So it is actually quite possible that he would be richer now if he invested the 14 mil into an index fund (btw do your search on that, it is true, you can't dispute stuff you can't be bothered looking into)

Besides, when starting out his projects didn't actually go all that well, banks who funded him due to his father were knees deep in shit coz his projects were bombing, but they couldn't afford him to fail coz he'd take them down with him, so they bailed him out and the myth snowballed from there. He is not by any stretch of the imagination a brilliant businessman, and it's just lazy to assume he is coz "oh look how rich he is". Having a 14 mil "loan" from daddy and using all of daddy's business connections to get ahead isn't "smart", Steve Jobs is smart.

You seem to be basing your opinion on a lot of shit that you keep saying you can't be bothered researching or finding out on, that definitely is not smart and why maybe it can't be taken seriously
 

Betty Noir

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It's an indictment on the media that most people could easily predict beforehand that Trump would cop the raw end of the deal last night.
The mod called him on the BS, which in the old days is what mods did. The only reason it is something is because some campaigner from the CPD said that he didn't think the mods should or would fact check. Well guess what. The black, (card carrying) republican mod, who Trump dissed 2 days before because he was a democrat, decided to call him out on some very basic issues. Like birtherism. Who'da guessed? LOL
 

happy_eagle

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Holts job was to moderate discussion, so if someone is interrupting and yelling over someone else whilst it is their designated time to answer a question, the job of the moderator is to politely tell that person to pipe down and wait.
Given the amount of times that Donald spoke over Hillary, it is no wonder that Holt seemingly had more to say to Trump than he did to Hillary.
 

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Let's assume the 14 million number is accurate, I cannot be bothered looking into it. How many people manage to turn it into billions of dollars after living the high life? Very few, it takes talent. Even taking into account inflation, it is much harder to turn 100 million into 1 billion than it is to turn 1 million into 10 million. It is also very hard to build a successful billion dollar enterprise essentially from scratch - that's why a lot of rich people go into venture capital (and accept a high failure rate) rather than trying to start businesses themselves.

Cannot be bothered going through whether his business was a scam or not, I think its a stretch to say that although my original point was that his rhetorical style is persuasive. Persuasive people can be con artists. You still need to be smart to pull it off.
He got his start from Daddy's money, relied on Daddy's connections to political power (outsider, my arse) and unethical and probably illegal dealing.

Evan after all that, he is overleveraged to the hilt, won't release his tax returns and probably counts his 'brand' as his biggest asset.
 

TheMightyEagles

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If you still think Trump isn't racist then you might wanna actually start doing those researches that you can't be bothered doing......

Btw his net worth is continually disputed and there are some good figures that show he isn't a billionaire, and even Trump himself admitted to inflating his own net worth (heck, ask people who worked with him, they say he always overexaggerate every single figure he comes across with every single asset he owns). So it is actually quite possible that he would be richer now if he invested the 14 mil into an index fund (btw do your search on that, it is true, you can't dispute stuff you can't be bothered looking into)

Besides, when starting out his projects didn't actually go all that well, banks who funded him due to his father were knees deep in shit coz his projects were bombing, but they couldn't afford him to fail coz he'd take them down with him, so they bailed him out and the myth snowballed from there. He is not by any stretch of the imagination a brilliant businessman, and it's just lazy to assume he is coz "oh look how rich he is". Having a 14 mil "loan" from daddy and using all of daddy's business connections to get ahead isn't "smart", Steve Jobs is smart.

You seem to be basing your opinion on a lot of shit that you keep saying you can't be bothered researching or finding out on, that definitely is not smart and why maybe it can't be taken seriously
I said that I cannot be bothered looking into two areas - (a) whether the 14 million figure is accurate (its not what I heard previously, I thought Trump said a lower figure but whatever, I assumed that the figure you provided is correct for the purpose of my argument - it didn't change my underlying point) and (b) whether his business is supposedly a scam (scam is an emotive word, he isn't operating an illegal enterprise and in any event it was irrelevant to what we were discussing earlier). Its disingenuous to extrapolate that to the rest of my posts.

Forbes puts Trump's wealth at 4 billion (link: http://www.forbes.com/profile/donald-trump/). You don't have to be a Steve Jobs' level genius to be smart (or not be a "simpleton", as you mentioned earlier).

On the racist argument, I have already read over the Huffington Post article that supposedly lists all examples of his racism. They use the same rhetorical device as commonly used by climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers, i.e. making many weak arguments to add a false sense of legitimacy to their overall point, while ignoring the probative value of each argument. All of their arguments are easily rebuttable.

I will leave it there for today. The upcoming polls may pretty much tell the story of November in any event.
 

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I said that I cannot be bothered looking into two areas - (a) whether the 14 million figure is accurate (its not what I heard previously, I thought Trump said a lower figure but whatever, I assumed that the figure you provided is correct for the purpose of my argument - it didn't change my underlying point) and (b) whether his business is supposedly a scam (scam is an emotive word, he isn't operating an illegal enterprise and in any event it was irrelevant to what we were discussing earlier).

Forbes puts Trump's wealth at 4 billion (link: http://www.forbes.com/profile/donald-trump/). You don't have to be a Steve Jobs' level genius to be smart (or not be a "simpleton", as you mentioned earlier).

On the racist argument, I have already read over the Huffington Post article that supposedly lists all examples of his racism. They use the same rhetorical devices as climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers, i.e. making many weak arguments to add a false sense of legitimacy to their overall point, while ignoring the probative value of each argument. All of their arguments are easily rebuttable.

I will leave it there for today. The upcoming polls may pretty much tell the story of November in any event.
You seem to keep disputing points you never bother to look into yourself which is strange, like one of them Christians disputing bible passages they don't read or know existed

Getting 14 million in 1973 to start a business is the equivalent of getting 87 million to start your business in 1973 when taking into account inflation, and that's just a starting figure, his dad continued to pump money equal or greater than that amount into his projects. I would like to think anyone with a base of 100+ million dollars to start businesses in modern terms would be able to turn in a profit, it doesn't take a smart man to do it, but it certainly take a dumb man not to

Which going into how at one stage he was 80 million dollars in debt and declared bankruptcy on his company, which he got away without paying it off coz of loopholes and being in luck. He tanked a casino, which is basically like diving into a bucket of diamonds and coming up full of shit in your mouth. Along with all those failures, he continually run scammy models like Trump Uni as a means of avenue, and that's just one of them. You think that's smart business then there's nothing I can do to convince you if reality and facts can't

Yes, it's all rhetoric that he got sued for having a policy of not renting apartments to black people, twice, which he was made to settle on (like how Roger Ailes and Fox settled recently). Then him not wanting black people around the premises when he's around his resorts in the 90s, you think that's not racist? Fine, be my guest, if reality doesn't convince you nothing will
 

TheMightyEagles

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You seem to keep disputing points you never bother to look into yourself which is strange, like one of them Christians disputing bible passages they don't read or know existed

Getting 14 million in 1973 to start a business is the equivalent of getting 87 million to start your business in 1973 when taking into account inflation, and that's just a starting figure, his dad continued to pump money equal or greater than that amount into his projects. I would like to think anyone with a base of 100+ million dollars to start businesses in modern terms would be able to turn in a profit, it doesn't take a smart man to do it, but it certainly take a dumb man not to

Which going into how at one stage he was 80 million dollars in debt and declared bankruptcy on his company, which he got away without paying it off coz of loopholes and being in luck. He tanked a casino, which is basically like diving into a bucket of diamonds and coming up full of shit in your mouth. Along with all those failures, he continually run scammy models like Trump Uni as a means of avenue, and that's just one of them. You think that's smart business then there's nothing I can do to convince you if reality and facts can't

Yes, it's all rhetoric that he got sued for having a policy of not renting apartments to black people, twice, which he was made to settle on (like how Roger Ailes and Fox settled recently). Then him not wanting black people around the premises when he's around his resorts in the 90s, you think that's not racist? Fine, be my guest, if reality doesn't convince you nothing will
Plenty of cases settle on a no admission basis to save expense and time. You can infer what you want from that, but unless he admitted wrongdoing, you are just reading into it the narrative you want to hear.

Where did I dispute your 14 million figure? Again you are being disingenuous, ironically you would hit the roof if Trump did something similar in a debate. I said that: "whether the 14 million figure is accurate (its not what I heard previously, I thought Trump said a lower figure but whatever, I assumed that the figure you provided is correct for the purpose of my argument - it didn't change my underlying point)".
 

Todman

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Tell me how many well-to-do families can afford to give their son at a minimum of 14 mil to start his business, and that's in the 70s, then have his dad pump money continually into his projects thereafter (then get big part of his inheritance when he passed). You're making it sound like Trump is doing something many people tried but failed at which is simply not true
If your papa gave you $14 million you would blow the lot on wine, women and drugs.
 

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Plenty of cases settle on a no admission basis to save expense and time. You can infer what you want from that, but unless he admitted wrongdoing, you are just reading into it the narrative you want to hear.

Where did I dispute your 14 million figure? Again you are being disingenuous, ironically you would hit the roof if Trump did something similar in a debate. I said that: "whether the 14 million figure is accurate (its not what I heard previously, I thought Trump said a lower figure but whatever, I assumed that the figure you provided is correct for the purpose of my argument - it didn't change my underlying point)".
I've referenced other stories of him being in racist incidents but you'll ignore those, and the birther argument, though irrelevant, is most definitely racist, but that's been beaten to death so won't go into it. And I might be spinning it to suit my narrative but I can say you're doing exactly the same things

Anyhow this is beating a dead horse, not gonna go on and on about this, since you are clearly pro-Trump and has made no real secrets about it, but it's just strange that you keep trying to spin things in his favour while having admitted in not having looked at some of the real facts yourself, I guess it's the only way anyone can be pro-Trump
 

Betty Noir

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Wait till his sniffing creates interest. The view is that he's a long time aficionado of the nose candy. It's a bit of taboo to bring up because he's not alone obviously. But his demeanor this night, and his linguistics, like so many other nights is very typical of a person not quite in the zone, (multi medicated, probably alprazolam)... but this is ancient.
 
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