Review 2016.

[Willo_]

I thought he was generally better this year than last. He still needs to find better consistency but I reckon he influenced more games this year.

His best was better than it has ever been.
The gap between his best and worst probably still is too large. .. but I think he can hold his head high this season for the most part

 

[Lana]

Quite easily on raw numbers. He's gone from 19 to 22 touches per game in 3 seasons...

His game time has dropped since 2014, the largest change was brought on by the removal of the sub. When you account for gametime you'll find that his production has increased by a decent margin.

 

[manboob]

You're taking the piss. He's played like 3.5 minutes less per game.

 

[Lana]

You're taking the piss. He's played like 3.5 minutes less per game.

Not at all.

It's five minutes per game less than in 2014 with the countdown clock (80 minutes) not the count up clock (125 minutes). At his current rate of accumulation he'd average 2 more disposals per game if he played the same game time in 2016 and he did in 2014. He'd be averaging just under 25 disposal a game and you'd be praising him for his improvement.

I don't see how you can rationally consider 10-15% year on year increases to be stagnation. It be one thing if there was no change between 2015 and 2016.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Quite easily on raw numbers. He's gone from 19 to 22 touches per game in 3 seasons...

Raw numbers mean very little. He's played a lot less in midfield this year compared to previous years. Hawthorn x2, GWS at home and Adelaide away were arguably our 4 best wins of the year. He was huge in all 4.

 

[Sttew]

Hawkins, McCarthy, Kolo, Stanley (just) and Selwood probably the only real improvers from last year's standards. Mind you, what list turnover we had...

You forgot Boris

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Pretty strange year when you jump from tenth to third but most of your players either go sideways or backwards.

I said at the start of this season that it's no point getting MR SUPERSTAR in if the team doesn't play better. Got shouted down by the football god worshippers for that. I personally could not give a crap about the Brownlow.

We had two of them, Selwood and Dangerfield, playing out of their skin. Yet the team had regressed. It's no good solely pointing the finger at players who have lost form. We go from one player to the next blaming him. But if they have all lost form, and they are all in the same area, what the club is doing with the team needs to be looked at.

 

[catempire]

Yet the team had regressed.

Nonsense.

 

[hbk_aus]

I said at the start of this season that it's no point getting MR SUPERSTAR in if the team doesn't play better. Got shouted down by the football god worshippers for that. I personally could not give a crap about the Brownlow.

We had two of them, Selwood and Dangerfield, playing out of their skin. Yet the team had regressed. It's no good solely pointing the finger at players who have lost form. We go from one player to the next blaming him. But if they have all lost form, and they are all in the same area, what the club is doing with the team needs to be looked at.

I wouldnt say regressed. Plateaued more like it. We needed a lot of the middle tier to jump on board the big 2 and come along for the ride and they didnt do it often enough, and especially didnt when it really counted.

My concern is that there is a development issue at the club which is hindering this. My reason for saying this, instead of it being down to the individual, is that some of these players (e.g Blicavs) are known to be the hardest workers during the week. So why havent they improved their football output in correlation with that hard work?

But while we sit here and pick apart the faults, we still finished Top 4 and made a prelim. How many predicted that at the start of the year, Dangerfield or not? I know i was hoping for Top 4 with our easy draw, but that was based on the improvement I expected from that group in their early 20's.

My worry is that middle tier may have peaked with leaves us with a massive issue going forward.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Nonsense.

OK. Take out Selwood and Dangerfield, and how much do we get beaten by last Friday? About the same as our 2015 team. Which is worse because of all the extra players we have bought in.

Just about every single mid tier player from last year has gone backwards. Kersten looks finished at the club. Same with GHS, Smedts, Vardy, Motlop. Our best performing player last year, Blicavs, was pushed out of the 2nd ruck and given a dfferent job. He has lost all confidence. It isn't good enough to point the finger at all of them and say they are all coasting. If they are all coasting, then its something more than that.

We got in nearly 10 "new" players, all of who looked better prospects to the 2015 model. But the team itself looks to have gone backwards when you get past that.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I wouldnt say regressed. Plateaued more like it. We needed a lot of the middle tier to jump on board the big 2 and come along for the ride and they didnt do it often enough, and especially didnt when it really counted.

My concern is that there is a development issue at the club which is hindering this. My reason for saying this, instead of it being down to the individual, is that some of these players (e.g Blicavs) are known to be the hardest workers during the week. So why havent they improved their football output in correlation with that hard work?

But while we sit here and pick apart the faults, we still finished Top 4 and made a prelim. How many predicted that at the start of the year, Dangerfield or not? I know i was hoping for Top 4 with our easy draw, but that was based on the improvement I expected from that group in their early 20's.

My worry is that middle tier may have peaked with leaves us with a massive issue going forward.

If a player at 25 has plateaued, then he has regressed.

 

[hbk_aus]

OK. Take out Selwood and Dangerfield, and how much do we get beaten by last Friday? About the same as our 2015 team. Which is worse because of all the extra players we have bought in.

Just about every single mid tier player from last year has gone backwards. Kersten looks finished at the club. Same with GHS, Smedts, Vardy, Motlop. Our best performing player last year, Blicavs, was pushed out of the 2nd ruck and given a dfferent job. He has lost all confidence. It isn't good enough to point the finger at all of them and say they are all coasting. If they are all coasting, then its something more than that.

We got in nearly 10 "new" players, all of who looked better prospects to the 2015 model. But the team itself looks to have gone backwards when you get past that.

Kersten had his best senior year with us didnt he? I might be wrong, cant be bothered checking games/goals. But i think its a bit weird to say the team has gone backwards when you ignore the new players we have....you dont ignore them because they are a part of the afore-mentioned team.

But you are correct on those names not improving. Motlop looked on the verge of stardom a couple of years ago and hasnt reach any greater heights since. Blicavs went backwards, GHS couldnt get a look in for whatever reason so hard to say about him. Vardy and Smedts have never shown anything other than glimpses and look gone. Even Lang, Gregson and Cockatoo you would've hoped for the linear improvement but that didnt come. It is a worry.

 

[hbk_aus]

If a player at 25 has plateaued, then he has regressed.

That is one way of looking at it.

 

[Commando]

2016 - another missed opportunity

 

[catempire]

OK. Take out Selwood and Dangerfield, and how much do we get beaten by last Friday? About the same as our 2015 team. Which is worse because of all the extra players we have bought in.

Just about every single mid tier player from last year has gone backwards. Kersten looks finished at the club. Same with GHS, Smedts, Vardy, Motlop. Our best performing player last year, Blicavs, was pushed out of the 2nd ruck and given a dfferent job. He has lost all confidence. It isn't good enough to point the finger at all of them and say they are all coasting. If they are all coasting, then its something more than that.

We got in nearly 10 "new" players, all of who looked better prospects to the 2015 model. But the team itself looks to have gone backwards when you get past that.

The statement I quoted was nonsense. Now you seem to want to engage in some hypothetical exercise where we pretend we don't have our two best players. For what purpose eludes me entirely.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

The statement I quoted was nonsense. Now you seem to want to engage in some hypothetical exercise where we pretend we don't have our two best players. For what purpose eludes me entirely.

It does seem to elude you. Not my fault.

I'm talking about the team, which is more than just individual players, or their value when you look at their names on a sheet of paper. Our two best players didn't take the rest of the team with them. Chappy, Scarlett, Mooney would not have put up with the shit that has been produced by some of our players this season. The way we are playing looks like are lacking in real team leadership, a leadership that would not have tolerated some of our insipid performances this year. As captain, Selwood used to push that, or so it seemed. He now looks more interested in competing with Dangerfield to see who the best midfielder is. They are putting in great performances. But the team isn't. They aren't taking the rest of the midfield with them. Looking at the Bulldogs, that is a midfield unit. That is a sub-team within a team. No-one would dare coast in that unit for a week. Last year, I really thought we looked promising. And a lot of posters here almost promised with Danger, we really don't need anyone else. Yeah.

 

[Boxhead_31]

The end of season rankings from Inside Footy:

 

[Partridge]

The end of season rankings from Inside Footy:
View attachment 293703

Some of those ranking are in the realm of fantasy.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Some of those ranking are in the realm of fantasy.

They got Dangerfield, Enright and Selwood correct. They basically drew the rest out of a hat.

 

[PhatBoy]

I said at the start of this season that it's no point getting MR SUPERSTAR in if the team doesn't play better. Got shouted down by the football god worshippers for that. I personally could not give a crap about the Brownlow.

We had two of them, Selwood and Dangerfield, playing out of their skin. Yet the team had regressed. It's no good solely pointing the finger at players who have lost form. We go from one player to the next blaming him. But if they have all lost form, and they are all in the same area, what the club is doing with the team needs to be looked at.

How has the team regressed?

Desperate to hear a reasonable explanation for this

 

[PhatBoy]

It does seem to elude you. Not my fault.

I'm talking about the team, which is more than just individual players, or their value when you look at their names on a sheet of paper. Our two best players didn't take the rest of the team with them. Chappy, Scarlett, Mooney would not have put up with the shit that has been produced by some of our players this season. The way we are playing looks like are lacking in real team leadership, a leadership that would not have tolerated some of our insipid performances this year. As captain, Selwood used to push that, or so it seemed. He now looks more interested in competing with Dangerfield to see who the best midfielder is. They are putting in great performances. But the team isn't. They aren't taking the rest of the midfield with them. Looking at the Bulldogs, that is a midfield unit. That is a sub-team within a team. No-one would dare coast in that unit for a week. Last year, I really thought we looked promising. And a lot of posters here almost promised with Danger, we really don't need anyone else. Yeah.

That is an insult. 100 per cent insult.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Wanted to address this point separately and the list management thread wasn't the right one to do it.

I'm still developing my thinking on what went wrong and will no doubt post more on it in the coming weeks and over summer.

But some initial thinking...

I don't think we "overachieved". I think we have a list that is around the mark but clearly not ahead of the pack but clearly ahead of the middle rung of the ladder. So I start from a point that if we were to win the whole thing this year a whole lot had to go right and evidently it didn't.

What needed to go right that didn't? Well, a few things come to mind:

1. This is the big one: our "brand" of footy had to stand up in finals footy and beat the brand of Sydney, GWS, Hawthorn and the Dogs. It did beat Hawthorn's but fell short (well short) of Sydney's brand. We built a system on getting numbers around the ball, trying to get high numbers of i50s, locking the ball inside 50, pressuring the opposition into high kicks inside our D50 and scoring through weight of possession and time in our forward half. We punted that we could move the ball slowly and deliberately and that we could slow the opposition down to play that way too. That brand didn't stack up.

2. We needed to not only overcome our ruck and midfield deficiencies that plagued us from 2012-2015 (which we largely did - 18th to 4th in clearances and 13th to 2nd in contested ball) but we needed to hurt the opposition through midfield break-even and ascendency. We just couldn't do that. This is where my still raw thinking about our season is at a preliminary stage, but I think we swung the pendulum too far in the direction of focus on clearances and contested ball in 2016, with not enough attention on how we move the ball once we win it, both from the stoppages and after turnovers. From the stoppages our 2nd possession from the clearance was rarely clean and decisive but often a handball or kick to a contest or player under pressure. Watching Sydney, GWS and the Dogs, this is where they break teams open - hitting targets on the outside or at least hitting the ball at speed so that the 3rd possession can be a decisive one. We must take more initiative in moving the ball from the back half. The slow build up does not work in the heat of finals. In 2017 we need to find a way to emulate and better those sides. It's a big ask.

3. We needed to win despite some structural deficiencies. No CHF. No Betts/Rioli like crumbling forward. Not one single rebounding running defender on the list. We know now that way lies madness. Time to recruit to address these issues.

That's some pretty sketchy initial thoughts.

Really enjoyed reading that catempire

I think our major deficiencies were definitely midfield effectiveness and entry into F50. We did a great job in terms of improving contested ball in 2016 , ranking second in contested differential over the season was a key reason behind 18 wins , we also did well in translating that into volume of F50 entries.
However our F50 performance was initially disappointing with poor kicking for goal the culprit , we improved that but never got the balance between lowering the eyes for shallow entries and kicking deep throughout the season. We should have been more efficient

Maybe we chose to kick deep as it's easier to lock it in from there , maybe we lacked a short option plan or talent or maybe we didn't want to turn it over 40m out from goal and get burnt on the rebound? Who knows? We must get it right in 2017 though , the new forward coach will be vey important.

Totally agree about the midfield. Our midfield cohesion was found out badly in the PF. It's hard to have high DE by foot when you're constantly under pressure. We never seem to block or shepherd !!! We are poor at spreading from the contest , I think its' structural in the main but there is also an element of playing together as a new group - look at Swans , Bullies and GWS - they seem to know where their next option is all the time and once they are out they are clean and effective. We have the cattle to be much better than we were - Menegola , Cowan and SS were terrific late and will benefit from another preseason. If we improve our MF delivery then the forwards can benefit hugely as a better understanding develops.

The defence was very good over the season but I'm one for downsizing a bit and injecting more run in 2017.
2016 was a pass from me - like most I thought top 8 plus a finals win would meet expectations.
I am optimistic about 2017 and will be keen on how the likes of Lang , Gregson and Cockatoo come along in particular.
Also keen on what Wells has up his sleeve

 

[Seeds]

With the list we had at our disposal and the trading away of the future it was premiership or bust. Thus season was a bust and serious questions need to be asked of the players, coaches and board.

 

[Seeds]

Hawkins, McCarthy, Kolo, Stanley (just) and Selwood probably the only real improvers from last year's standards. Mind you, what list turnover we had...

McCarthy didn't play last year.

 

[Seeds]

The Age on-line summary of last night's game aptly described Geelong of 2016. - For the 2nd time this year the Swans were able to strip back the wallpaper from Geelong's patchy team and reveal a good team reliant on too few.

I genuinely believe we overachieved by getting to the PF so therefore consider 3rd position a good result

Except the patchiness is a result of player underachievement, lack of team cohesion and poor game day coaching strategies. It's the opposite of overachievement.