Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

Who will be our most improved for 2018?


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marty36

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Was he not responsible for Lever, or was that the year prior to him being promoted? And let's face it, he hasn't really had any "high" draft picks to work with. What was Milera after academy players, 14? And then you need to take into account where we've finished over the last 3 years, not a lot of opportunity for draftees to play big blocks of games. If our players had been drafted by Carlton and weren't playing, then you'd have a point. As it stands, you don't.

I think the issue is the home grown talent that we have missed from under our noses

And that home grown talent doesnt have a go home factor, something that has hurt us
 

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kulak

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Marty “MartyWorld” 36 says Tom “0 games in 2 years” Doedee is no guarantee to become a league standard player. He is accused of being overly negative and wanting the AFC to fail.

Marty “MartyWorld” 36 says Wayne “24 games in 2 years and a 20% improvement from 2016 to 2017” Milera will be a champ, but no one accuses him of being overly positive and wanting the AFC to succeed

Meanwhile the board consensus seems to be that Milera lacks effort and may or may not make it, meanwhile Jake “21 yo 195 cm already the best intercept player in the AFL” Lever’s departure won’t be a problem because Tom “0 games in 2 years” has been doing nicely in the SANFL
 

Vader

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Was he not responsible for Lever, or was that the year prior to him being promoted? And let's face it, he hasn't really had any "high" draft picks to work with. What was Milera after academy players, 14? And then you need to take into account where we've finished over the last 3 years, not a lot of opportunity for draftees to play big blocks of games. If our players had been drafted by Carlton and weren't playing, then you'd have a point. As it stands, you don't.
Rendell was forced out in March 2012, with Ogilvie taking over as his replacement.

He's responsible for the selections of Crouch, Knight, Lever & McGovern, all of whom are/were best 22 automatic selections in 2017.

However, none of his selections from 2015 & 2016 have yet established themselves in the best 22. This includes Milera, Doedee, Gallucci & Poholke. Of those, only Milera (24 games) and Gallucci (1 game) have played a senior game. Hopefully 2018 will see some of these players (plus Fogarty) being given more opportunities, and possibly establishing themselves in the best 22.
 
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It's not incorrect though. I'm yet to see anything to get excited about. Make or break this year
You see, i see Milera differently ......you've judged him on his 2nd AFL season as a 19 yo .....me, i see the enormous talent, the amount of time & space he has ....and his elite decision making & skills

Is he the finished product at 19 yo ? .....anyone believing this is simply naive
 

Vader

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The stats on 1st round draftees who don't debut in their first 2 years does not make pretty reading. Based on historical statistics, there's a high probability that Doedee won't make it at the AFL level. That's not me supporting Marty, nor is it me writing Doedee off before he's played a game. It's just what the historical statistics, across the entire AFL, says is likely to happen. I liked what I saw of him in the few SANFL games I did see televised, and Lever's departure means that there is a vacancy which he could potentially fill. I really do hope he makes it, but it's far from certain that he will.

Milera too has big question marks hanging over his head. WW can say what he likes, but my impressions from watching him are that he's slightly softer than melted butter and that he's prone to going MIA for long periods of time. On the positive side, his decision making and disposal are both very good - when he does actually get the ball in his hands. I wouldn't quite say that 2018 will be "make or break" for him, but he definitely needs to show more than he did in 2017 if he's going to succeed in the long term.
 
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Rendell was forced out in March 2012, with Ogilvie taking over as his replacement.

He's responsible for the selections of Crouch, Knight, Lever & McGovern, all of whom are/were best 22 automatic selections in 2017.

However, none of his selections from 2015 & 2016 have yet established themselves in the best 22. This includes Milera, Doedee, Gallucci & Poholke. Of those, only Milera (25 games) and Gallucci (1 game) have played a senior game. Hopefully 2018 will see some of these players (plus Fogarty) being given more opportunities, and possibly establishing themselves in the best 22.
Being a top 2 team doesn't help. Hard to drop seniors to play kids when the teams performing most weeks.
 

Vader

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You see, i see Milera differently ......you've judged him on his 2nd AFL season as a 19 yo .....me, i see the enormous talent, the amount of time & space he has ....and his elite decision making & skills

Is he the finished product at 19 yo ? .....anyone believing this is simply naive
Milera has obvious strengths and obvious weaknesses. He needs to improve those weaknesses, or he won't make it at AFL level. He's definitely got talent, but right now he has some serious flaws in his game. He's not a "finished product", but he has a lot of work to do in those areas if he's going to make it.
 

Redleg Crow

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Jude Bolton's way-too-early predictions for the 2018 AFL season


ADELAIDE CROWS

The Crows will be stinging after their poor performance in the grand final, when only a few could hold their head high in what was a harrowing finish to 2017. The grand final shocker aside, all up it was a terrific season for the Crows who should be right in the thick of things again this season.

Adding Bryce Gibbs to their midfield adds further class and depth to an already strong engine room. However, there were some key off-season blows. Jake Lever is a huge loss to their defensive unit while sadly, Brodie Smith will miss the season due to an ACL injury, and Charlie Cameron's exodus in trade week may affect their line-breaking ability. The Crows, though, should still be right in the mix for top-four.

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/22011329/jude-bolton-way-too-early-afl-predictions-2018
 

Vader

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Being a top 2 team doesn't help. Hard to drop seniors to play kids when the teams performing most weeks.
They had the opportunity to select Doedee when Lever & Hartigan were injured. The selectors opted for Otten & Keath instead. The opportunity was there, and it didn't require the dropping of senior players.

Milera played 16 games last year, including 14 of the first 15. If he was good enough, then he would have held his position in the team. He wasn't forced out because of an unwillingness to drop seniors. He was forced out because he wasn't performing well enough to justify further selection.

Gallucci played a debut game against Brisbane. Surprisingly, they did actually drop a senior player (Mackay) to make room for him in the team. It's fairly clear though that he was only ever going to play this one game, as a "taster" to experience the top level. That's the development plan the club had in place for him last year, and I'm expecting that he'll receive more opportunities this year.
 

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azza77

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The stats on 1st round draftees who don't debut in their first 2 years does not make pretty reading. Based on historical statistics, there's a high probability that Doedee won't make it at the AFL level. That's not me supporting Marty, nor is it me writing Doedee off before he's played a game. It's just what the historical statistics, across the entire AFL, says is likely to happen. I liked what I saw of him in the few SANFL games I did see televised, and Lever's departure means that there is a vacancy which he could potentially fill. I really do hope he makes it, but it's far from certain that he will.

Milera too has big question marks hanging over his head. WW can say what he likes, but my impressions from watching him are that he's slightly softer than melted butter and that he's prone to going MIA for long periods of time. On the positive side, his decision making and disposal are both very good - when he does actually get the ball in his hands. I wouldn't quite say that 2018 will be "make or break" for him, but he definitely needs to show more than he did in 2017 if he's going to succeed in the long term.
I feel like Doedee should be viewed differently from other “standard” draftees. Don’t forget, the late rush for him was because of the huge improvement he had shown in his footballing ability after making that he’s primary sport over Basketball. Coaches chased him because they thought he had a lot of room to grow.

I feel like we used a high pick on him because we thought other clubs were coming hard at him, but he’s still essentially a bit of a project player, similar to how Rendell talked about Yoleman.

But many will argue that if he’s a project player as such, then he better have a pretty god damn high ceiling on him for us to be using pick 17 on him, which I think is a fair argument if you’re going to go down that road.

I also think cos we already had another first round pick in that draft, it probably gave the recruiting team a bit more leniency in taking that risk.
 

MRB37

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Doedee was always going to take a bit longer since he had only the one year of football as a 17 year old after playing basketball. His defensive work there was quality because of his athleticism, but his actual skills weren't great. What Ogilvie saw though, was that much in the same we saw in Greenwood and Keath, you get them into the system and despite the lack of experience, they'd improve quickly.Ogilvie tried to get him to sit out for a year so we could take him as a Cat B rookie, but he wanted to play.
 
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Milera has obvious strengths and obvious weaknesses. He needs to improve those weaknesses, or he won't make it at AFL level. He's definitely got talent, but right now he has some serious flaws in his game. He's not a "finished product", but he has a lot of work to do in those areas if he's going to make it.
There is ZERO chance of this happening .......all 19 yo players have areas of their game to develop .....his contested ball is on a par with most AFL players of that age
 

Vader

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I feel like Doedee should be viewed differently from other “standard” draftees. Don’t forget, the late rush for him was because of the huge improvement he had shown in his footballing ability after making that he’s primary sport over Basketball. Coaches chased him because they thought he had a lot of room to grow.

I feel like we used a high pick on him because we thought other clubs were coming hard at him, but he’s still essentially a bit of a project player, similar to how Rendell talked about Yoleman.

But many will argue that if he’s a project player as such, then he better have a pretty god damn high ceiling on him for us to be using pick 17 on him, which I think is a fair argument if you’re going to go down that road.

I also think cos we already had another first round pick in that draft, it probably gave the recruiting team a bit more leniency in taking that risk.
CEY might not be the best example to use, given his track record (14 games in 5* seasons). If we have wasted a 1st round pick on a player who achieves as little as CEY, then Ogilvie will deserve the criticism that Marty directs his way.

* I didn't count 2017, as he spent the entire season on the injury list.

Yes, Doedee's a "project" player. He's not the first (or last) project player to be taken in the 1st round. That doesn't alter the statistics - the success rate for 1st round draftees who fail to play a game in their first 2 seasons is diabolically low.

I hope he makes it, but if he does then he'll be (almost) setting an AFL precedent.
 

Vader

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There is ZERO chance of this happening .......all 19 yo players have areas of their game to develop .....his contested ball is on a par with most AFL players of that age
It's not ZERO at all. It's much higher than that, probably 50/50 at best. Might make it, might not. Depends on his ability to improve his weaknesses, because at present they are crippling his chances. His strengths are very good, his weaknesses are glaring.
 
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The stats on 1st round draftees who don't debut in their first 2 years does not make pretty reading. Based on historical statistics, there's a high probability that Doedee won't make it at the AFL level. That's not me supporting Marty, nor is it me writing Doedee off before he's played a game. It's just what the historical statistics, across the entire AFL, says is likely to happen. I liked what I saw of him in the few SANFL games I did see televised, and Lever's departure means that there is a vacancy which he could potentially fill. I really do hope he makes it, but it's far from certain that he will.

Milera too has big question marks hanging over his head. WW can say what he likes, but my impressions from watching him are that he's slightly softer than melted butter and that he's prone to going MIA for long periods of time. On the positive side, his decision making and disposal are both very good - when he does actually get the ball in his hands. I wouldn't quite say that 2018 will be "make or break" for him, but he definitely needs to show more than he did in 2017 if he's going to succeed in the long term.
Problem is the game isn't run on statistics .....statistics lie !

Given your opinion on Cameron not being a best 22 player .....you can excuse us for questioning your impressions of players

If you want to Bookmark this, feel free .....Milera will be an Elite Player
 
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Doedee was always going to take a bit longer since he had only the one year of football as a 17 year old after playing basketball. His defensive work there was quality because of his athleticism, but his actual skills weren't great. What Ogilvie saw though, was that much in the same we saw in Greenwood and Keath, you get them into the system and despite the lack of experience, they'd improve quickly.Ogilvie tried to get him to sit out for a year so we could take him as a Cat B rookie, but he wanted to play.
This plus Doedee had a history of injury, even b he was drafted ....so they had to get his body right moreso than his skills

Whilst his kicking style wasn't classical, i don't recall him missing targets like Kelly did early ?
 
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It's not ZERO at all. It's much higher than that, probably 50/50 at best. Might make it, might not. Depends on his ability to improve his weaknesses, because at present they are crippling his chances. His strengths are very good, his weaknesses are glaring.
Do you take delight in your pessimism ?
 
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Really would be an interesting exercise to view historical posts to identify the Doomsday Posters who went berserk over the Drafting of Dangerfield ?

The Milera project iam assuming in hindsight, will probably bring up the same names
 
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CEY might not be the best example to use, given his track record (14 games in 5* seasons). If we have wasted a 1st round pick on a player who achieves as little as CEY, then Ogilvie will deserve the criticism that Marty directs his way.

* I didn't count 2017, as he spent the entire season on the injury list.

Yes, Doedee's a "project" player. He's not the first (or last) project player to be taken in the 1st round. That doesn't alter the statistics - the success rate for 1st round draftees who fail to play a game in their first 2 seasons is diabolically low.

I hope he makes it, but if he does then he'll be (almost) setting an AFL precedent
.
This is just plain dumb rubbish
 

Vader

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Problem is the game isn't run on statistics .....statistics lie !

Given your opinion on Cameron not being a best 22 player .....you can excuse us for questioning your impressions of players

If you want to Bookmark this, feel free .....Milera will be an Elite Player
Actually, I didn't say that Cameron wasn't a best 22 player, but carry on...

Statistics don't lie, but they don't tell the whole story either. The reality is that Doedee will be flying in the face of history if he makes it at the AFL level. Can he do it? Maybe. I certainly hope he does. Will he? History says "almost certainly not".

Milera could yet become elite, or he could end up on the scrapheap, or he could end up somewhere in between. Only time, and his ability to overcome his deficiencies, will tell.

** What I did say was that there would only be room for 2 of Milera/CC/Betts in the team. I predicted that Milera would eventually force CC out of the team. Given that CC is no longer at Adelaide, and Milera's lack of development in 2017, we'll never know if I was right or wrong.
 

1970crow

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The stats on 1st round draftees who don't debut in their first 2 years does not make pretty reading. Based on historical statistics, there's a high probability that Doedee won't make it at the AFL level. That's not me supporting Marty, nor is it me writing Doedee off before he's played a game. It's just what the historical statistics, across the entire AFL, says is likely to happen. I liked what I saw of him in the few SANFL games I did see televised, and Lever's departure means that there is a vacancy which he could potentially fill. I really do hope he makes it, but it's far from certain that he will.

Milera too has big question marks hanging over his head. WW can say what he likes, but my impressions from watching him are that he's slightly softer than melted butter and that he's prone to going MIA for long periods of time. On the positive side, his decision making and disposal are both very good - when he does actually get the ball in his hands. I wouldn't quite say that 2018 will be "make or break" for him, but he definitely needs to show more than he did in 2017 if he's going to succeed in the long term.
If Milera averages about 14.5 touches per game and goes missing for long periods of time then surely he's looking at a certain 200 game career.
 
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