Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings

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sverik25

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No way, Jose. 50k is way too far a stretch. Hawthorn, just like most MCG tenanted teams, are notorious for having poor attendances at Docklands. Western Bulldogs aren't a big drawing team, either, especially when it comes to their away matches. Can't see it being over 40,000, whether or not hawthorn and or the Western Bulldogs are playing for a finals berth.
Well you're in for a shock then because the match between the two last year got just under 47,000 at Etihad, and this year's match may well be bigger.
 

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No way, Jose. 50k is way too far a stretch. Hawthorn, just like most MCG tenanted teams, are notorious for having poor attendances at Docklands. Western Bulldogs aren't a big drawing team, either, especially when it comes to their away matches. Can't see it being over 40,000, whether or not hawthorn and or the Western Bulldogs are playing for a finals berth.
47,000 last year says you're wrong.
 

Hawkk

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No way, Jose. 50k is way too far a stretch. Hawthorn, just like most MCG tenanted teams, are notorious for having poor attendances at Docklands. Western Bulldogs aren't a big drawing team, either, especially when it comes to their away matches. Can't see it being over 40,000, whether or not hawthorn and or the Western Bulldogs are playing for a finals berth.
The last W Bulldogs v Hawthorn home and away game drew 46,808 to Etihad (3.20pm Sunday afternoon) in round 3 2016
 

bombersfan4000

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That was on a Saturday not on the worst time slot 3:20 on a Sunday.

Anyway mate a wining Collingwood is yes the biggest club in the land. A lot of our supporters are boycotting games for various reasons as we all want change at the club
no a winning Essendon or winning Richmond can easily be bigger! aside from the Eddie attempts to keep the pies relevant in the media by whoring them out at every opportunity possible factor

since 2000 the pies have played in 4 grand finals won 1, been a top 4 side for a good part of the last 17 years been in the finals playing all home games at the MCG
ill let the Richmond fans speak for the tigers but for a team that has been shite for 30 plus years their popularity speaks for it self

Essendon has done nothing since 2001 except the last 5 years been involved in the biggest cheating/ drug saga in AUstralian sporting history, they play out of etihad where its known it will draw 5 to 10 k less than MCG games, we have had several game this season classed as sell outs eg like last week 48k against the bulldogs & they are not even in the 8 and sit on top of the crowd attendance ladder & they won the spoon last year!

how much further ahead would Essendon be if they were top 4 or even with a bit of success & played all home games at the MCG like the pies and tigers do!

btw if you look at merchandise sales the club it in the top 3 or 4 every year as well
 

aCunningPlan

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no a winning Essendon or winning Richmond can easily be bigger! aside from the Eddie attempts to keep the pies relevant in the media by whoring them out at every opportunity possible factor

since 2000 the pies have played in 4 grand finals won 1, been a top 4 side for a good part of the last 17 years been in the finals playing all home games at the MCG
ill let the Richmond fans speak for the tigers but for a team that has been shite for 30 plus years their popularity speaks for it self

Essendon has done nothing since 2001 except the last 5 years been involved in the biggest cheating/ drug saga in AUstralian sporting history, they play out of etihad where its known it will draw 5 to 10 k less than MCG games, we have had several game this season classed as sell outs eg like last week 48k against the bulldogs & they are not even in the 8 and sit on top of the crowd attendance ladder & they won the spoon last year!

how much further ahead would Essendon be if they were top 4 or even with a bit of success & played all home games at the MCG like the pies and tigers do!

btw if you look at merchandise sales the club it in the top 3 or 4 every year as well
This post has merit.
 

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manicmagpie

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no a winning Essendon or winning Richmond can easily be bigger! aside from the Eddie attempts to keep the pies relevant in the media by whoring them out at every opportunity possible factor

since 2000 the pies have played in 4 grand finals won 1, been a top 4 side for a good part of the last 17 years been in the finals playing all home games at the MCG
ill let the Richmond fans speak for the tigers but for a team that has been shite for 30 plus years their popularity speaks for it self

Essendon has done nothing since 2001 except the last 5 years been involved in the biggest cheating/ drug saga in AUstralian sporting history, they play out of etihad where its known it will draw 5 to 10 k less than MCG games, we have had several game this season classed as sell outs eg like last week 48k against the bulldogs & they are not even in the 8 and sit on top of the crowd attendance ladder & they won the spoon last year!

how much further ahead would Essendon be if they were top 4 or even with a bit of success & played all home games at the MCG like the pies and tigers do!

btw if you look at merchandise sales the club it in the top 3 or 4 every year as well
Nice try, but it's a fact that Essendon have never outdrawn Collingwood while finishing below them on the ladder. In fact, history shows Essendon are required to be at least 4 places higher on the ladder and have won 4 more matches in order to match Collingwood for crowds. That's exactly where they will probably end up this year, and as a result, the two teams' crowds will be almost identical. Anytime the two teams finish near each other on the ladder, Collingwood end up in front by a significant margin.

This hold true when both teams played out of their suburban grounds, when Essendon moved to the G while Collingwood was still at Victoria Park, and since the opening of Docklands.

As always, reverse the onfield positions and Collingwood would be outperforming Essendon in the same situation.

Here's a handy cut-out-and-keep guide to the average crowds when particular ladder differences between the two sides occur:

upload_2017-8-4_9-32-35.png


Or if you prefer number of wins as a better indicator:

upload_2017-8-4_9-35-34.png
 

Hawkk

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no a winning Essendon or winning Richmond can easily be bigger! aside from the Eddie attempts to keep the pies relevant in the media by whoring them out at every opportunity possible factor

since 2000 the pies have played in 4 grand finals won 1, been a top 4 side for a good part of the last 17 years been in the finals playing all home games at the MCG
ill let the Richmond fans speak for the tigers but for a team that has been shite for 30 plus years their popularity speaks for it self

Essendon has done nothing since 2001 except the last 5 years been involved in the biggest cheating/ drug saga in AUstralian sporting history, they play out of etihad where its known it will draw 5 to 10 k less than MCG games, we have had several game this season classed as sell outs eg like last week 48k against the bulldogs & they are not even in the 8 and sit on top of the crowd attendance ladder & they won the spoon last year!

how much further ahead would Essendon be if they were top 4 or even with a bit of success & played all home games at the MCG like the pies and tigers do!

btw if you look at merchandise sales the club it in the top 3 or 4 every year as well
Settle.

Essendon's crowds have been exceptional this season but it is the first clear season after the 5 year self sabotage...

Lets see if the bounce is maintained in 2-3 years time when normality is restored. Typically clubs have a big bounce after a number of seasons of declining attendance and then the numbers are stabilise and stay the same irrespective of performance (i.e. Richmond in 1995 through the 1990s, 2013 onwards, Collingwood after 2002 and after 2010, Carlton after 2007, Hawthorn after 2008 and even St Kilda from 2004 all through to 2012)

No one club has the perfect set of circumstances where they completely dominate home and away attendance.

Well perhaps Collingwood in the 16/17 team competition in 2010/11 (1,306,461/6,495,814 ~ 20.11% and 1,269,959/6,525,071 ~ 19.46%), Richmond in the 12 team competition in 1980 (827,825/3,280,129 ~ 25.23%) and Melbourne in the 12 team competition in 1964 (639,753/2,536,965 ~ 25.21%).

Essendon and Carlton have issues with Ethiad, Hawthorn (80k to 100k a season) and North Melbourne have games in Tasmania, Richmond and Melbourne have underperformance, Geelong have a Kardina Park cap, St Kilda, North Melbouerne and W Bulldogs all have issues with the fixtures, Ethiad and time slots...

Those Collingwood attendances in 2010/2011 are incredible. With 4/5 more teams in the competition they completely dwarfed all comers in home and away attendance (296,624 greater then the next biggest club in 2010, 176,753 greater then the next biggest club in 2011)
 
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JayJ20

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no a winning Essendon or winning Richmond can easily be bigger!
No they won't.

Collingwood might not be that far in front of Essendon when it comes to casual support, but Collingwood are the biggest draw cards when all things are equal.

Almost every Melbourne side uses Collingwood as their biggest draw card.

If Collingwood were sitting in Richmond's position now, best believe that the Hawthorn game would be drawing high 70K and even pushing 80K against an in form Hawthorn. If they were sitting in Essendon's position, the game against Carlton would be getting 60-70K.

The Richmond game is likely going to get 65K-70K and the Essendon game 55K-60K.

A good Essendon/Richmond can outdraw a mid-table to bottom 4 Collingwood, but a good Essendon/Richmond cannot outdraw a good Collingwood.
 

manicmagpie

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Collingwood might not be that far in front of Essendon when it comes to casual support, but Collingwood are the biggest draw cards when all things are equal.

Almost every Melbourne side uses Collingwood as their biggest draw card.
You're spot on, particularly with those quoted sentences.

Although it's only my biased opinion that Collingwood can bandwagon slightly better than the others too, there is absolutely no denying that we drive opposition supporters to show up like no other team. It's been the case for over 6 decades. Hence why I think Hawthorn almost certainly topping the 'Away' crowd figures this year for the first time is of interest and a pretty significant achievement.
 

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It's sought of been lost how big Carlton are as a club. Back in 2000 they had a crowd of 91,571 v Bombers, (admittedly a lot of bombers fans there) which is enormous, collingwood only get that on ANZAC day. 2011 Showed a glimps when there up there, there a massive draw card, plus there fans are quite consistent, there crowds against non-victorian sides are really strong, probably the best out of all vic sides apart from collingwood.
 

manicmagpie

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It's sought of been lost how big Carlton are as a club. Back in 2000 they had a crowd of 91,571 v Bombers, (admittedly a lot of bombers fans there) which is enormous, collingwood only get that on ANZAC day. 2011 Showed a glimps when there up there, there a massive draw card, plus there fans are quite consistent, there crowds against non-victorian sides are really strong, probably the best out of all vic sides apart from collingwood.
The thing is though, they've only been the largest drawing team 3 times since 1952, and have only finished ahead of Collingwood 5 times in the last 60 years. Both Essendon and Richmond have far superior records to them. They don't tend to show up as consistently, despite their occasional huge one off crowds.
 

Rabman

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The thing is though, they've only been the largest drawing team 3 times since 1952, and have only finished ahead of Collingwood 5 times in the last 60 years. Both Essendon and Richmond have far superior records to them. They don't tend to show up as consistently, despite their occasional huge one off crowds.
They were one of the last teams to leave there home ground and didn't really play many games at the MCG. been irrelevant since 2001 as well, 2011 showed there are a massive pull when they get it right.
 

manicmagpie

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They were one of the last teams to leave there home ground and didn't really play many games at the MCG. been irrelevant since 2001 as well, 2011 showed there are a massive pull when they get it right.
All true, but the fact remains that their home ground held more fans than Collingwood's (or Essendon's) for the first 40 years out of the last 65 as well as being markedly more successful than us onfield (having one of the more dominant eras of all time from the late 1960s to the early 80s) and were still easily outdrawn by the Pies. The other members of the 'Big 4' managed to turn their successful onfield eras into topping the attendances as well.

When they get it right again they'll still end up with big numbers, but in my opinion they'll need the other big clubs to have reasonably poor years at the same time to match them.
 

Rabman

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All true, but the fact remains that their home ground held more fans than Collingwood's (or Essendon's) for the first 40 years out of the last 65 as well as being markedly more successful than us onfield (having one of the more dominant eras of all time from the late 1960s to the early 80s) and were still easily outdrawn by the Pies. The other members of the 'Big 4' managed to turn their successful onfield eras into topping the attendances as well.

When they get it right again they'll still end up with big numbers, but in my opinion they'll need the other big clubs to have reasonably poor years at the same time to match them.
Richmond had the MCG all the time, Carlton would of had a select few games at Waverly/MCG, plenty of times they were the second best attended team in the VFL. 1975, 76, 79, 80, 82 runners up to richmond in attendances, 86,87 only times as the best.
 
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manicmagpie

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Richmond had the MCG all the time, Carlton would of had a select few games at Waverly/MCG, plenty of times they were the second best attended team in the VFL.
Perhaps not as many times as you might think.

Draw your own conclusions from the below table which is the number of times the big clubs finished in each position over the last 65 years:

upload_2017-8-4_19-47-58.png


By the way, Collingwood every chance to finish outside the top 2 this year for only the 7th time in 65 years.
 
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