Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings

[Rouel_14]

Tweaked my spreadsheet so that it instantly spits out where the crowd for each match ranks in terms of the same fixture in the past, and was pleased to discover that every single game from Round 1 was in the top 7 of all time for each combination of home team and away team.

And yes, in a couple of instances this is because there have only been limited games between the clubs (e.g. Gold Coast's game was the 6th highest but out of just 7 home games against Brisbane) but in others this was quite an achievement. Games that some rated as disappointing turn out to look quite a bit more decent in this light. For example, it was St Kilda's 3rd highest home crowd against Melbourne ever, and North's 6th highest against West Coast.

6 of the 9 games were also in the top 10 for games between the competing clubs irrespective of which team was at home, including Essendon v Hawthorn recording their biggest clash ever.

The round also saw GWS record their 3rd highest crowd (against anyone), the Bulldogs their 6th highest and Hawthorn their 9th highest.

That does make it look positive and provides an interesting insight into how harsh on crowds we can be.


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[NoobPie]

When that turnover totals $1.5 billion across the AFL and 18 clubs, that's going to allow plenty of million dollar top-ups. It allows the largest salary cap of all Australian sporting comps, and the highest average salary of all Australian team sports, with the number of professional footballers being as many as the other three football codes combined.

So yeh, I'd still describe the gap between the AFL and all other footballs as a bit of an abyss.

If sporting clubs are sustaining extraordinary profits in a salary capped competition, it's a sign they are a bit of an outlier.

In the afl, overtime, the big clubs have accumulated significant profits from much higher revenues in a heavily financially equalised competition. The broncos are the product of a very poorly "designed" expansion where one Brisbane team towers over the rest of the competition financially. The victory are the only aleague club that breaks even and it is half the size of even the GWS.

 

[manicmagpie]

Not exactly a crowd stat, although I'll tenuously link it by saying that if this continues it might help crowds stay strong -

This round the lowest score was 73 by Freo. This is the highest low score for any round since Round 5 2011 and the third highest since the end of the 2000 season. Fast paced, high scoring footy looks to be in vogue for the time being and it can't hurt with keeping the public interested.

 

[Rouel_14]

Hey Maniac, hoping you can do me a favour with your new excel set up..

Richmond vs Carlton games always seem to have a higher attendance when it's the blues home game

Likewise thinking back from recent memory I would say the same case for Richmond V Collingwood, always seems to draw a higher crowd when it's a Richmond home game.

Firstly is this correct over a substantial time frame ?

Secondly any reasons as of too why? I can understand why this happens when it is one of the larger clubs vs one of the smaller clubs, but interested if there is some clear correlations between the bigger Melbourne clubs, if if some sets of fans are more prone to go to away games, or it only just coincidental with ones form.


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[manicmagpie]

Hey Maniac, hoping you can do me a favour with your new excel set up..

Richmond vs Carlton games always seem to have a higher attendance when it's the blues home game

Likewise thinking back from recent memory I would say the same case for Richmond V Collingwood, always seems to draw a higher crowd when it's a Richmond home game.

Firstly is this correct over a substantial time frame ?

Secondly any reasons as of too why? I can understand why this happens when it is one of the larger clubs vs one of the smaller clubs, but interested if there is some clear correlations between the bigger Melbourne clubs, if if some sets of fans are more prone to go to away games, or it only just coincidental with ones form.

Superficially at least in games at the MCG against both Carlton and Collingwood Richmond average a little more at home than away since 2000.

Against Carlton it's:

Home: 14 games @ 64,300
Away: 10 games @ 60,100

Against Collingwood:

Home: 13 @ 62,900
Away: 10 @ 61,300

In the case of Collingwood it looks like the difference is solely down to the one ordinary crowd we've had against Richmond in the last 17 seasons (39k in 2004) being a Collingwood home game. Otherwise I can't really see a difference.

Against Carlton the only difference I can see is that Richmond's home games have tended to occur slightly earlier in the season. Could just be that Carlton have had a couple extra games where it's essentially a dead rubber. Or it could be a lot of other factors. The difference really isn't that much.

 

[Rouel_14]

Superficially at least in games at the MCG against both Carlton and Collingwood Richmond average a little more at home than away since 2000.

Against Carlton it's:

Home: 14 games @ 64,300
Away: 10 games @ 60,100

Against Collingwood:

Home: 13 @ 62,900
Away: 10 @ 61,300

In the case of Collingwood it looks like the difference is solely down to the one ordinary crowd we've had against Richmond in the last 17 seasons (39k in 2004) being a Collingwood home game. Otherwise I can't really see a difference.

Against Carlton the only difference I can see is that Richmond's home games have tended to occur slightly earlier in the season. Could just be that Carlton have had a couple extra games where it's essentially a dead rubber. Or it could be a lot of other factors. The difference really isn't that much.

Cheers! Think it would be an interesting study area to look into across all teams, but they may just be the business analytics major nerd side of myself coming out

Side note - surely our two teams in round 2 can pull at least 75000?
The 65000 expected by the MCG may be in line with averages, but i can't remember a more important clash between the 2 teams since Round 4 2013.



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[manicmagpie]

Cheers! Think it would be an interesting study area to look into across all teams, but they may just be the business analytics major nerd side of myself coming out

Side note - surely our two teams in round 2 can pull at least 75000?
The 65000 expected by the MCG may be in line with averages, but i can't remember a more important clash between the 2 teams since Round 4 2013.



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I'll do one looking at all teams when I work out how to present it so it's easily understood.

For this week, the only thing stopping me from thinking over 70k will turn up is that it's on Thursday night for no good reason.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... Side note - surely our two teams in round 2 can pull at least 75000?
The 65000 expected by the MCG may be in line with averages, but i can't remember a more important clash between the 2 teams since Round 4 2013 ...

The fact that it's a mid week game with work and school the next day will be a disincentive - may deter quite a few from attending.

 

[Easton Thighs]

It's not as much live TV as it is how they've reclaimed many of the Etihad seats for reserved/medallian club seating.

As someone who has attended Etihad since it opened, less of the ground is accessible for a general fan.
From memory it was only 3-5 years ago that for a Bulldogs game that all of level 3 was reserved seating. Now for many games the front of the wings are reserved. The medallion club was introduced etc and things like the "Premiership Club". Perhaps this was to maximise revenue in the fact of the terrible stadium deal. Who knows really.

You're probably never going to have this ever again - both teams on top of the ladder nonwithstanding, 50,000+ to Etihad with a small Melbourne team vs an Interstate team: http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2004/151920040501.html

This Round 2, 2017 game between the Western Bulldogs and Sydney in many ways is no different to that game. If it was played with the seating structure of 2009, this game would get 40,000+ in my eyes, similar to that 2004 St Kilda/Brisbane game - Dogs unfurling the flag, GF replay, Sydney with large Melbourne support, Friday Night Football. But I'll be surprised if it gets 35,000 and happy with 30,000.

I don't think we'll ever see a 50,000 crowd at Etihad ever again unless there are massive structural changes to how the seating works at Etihad as Medallion club tickets take a portion. We haven't had one since 2013, and with only 3 in the 4 year period of 2010-2013, we had 15 in the 10 year period of 2000-2009 (even with 0 in the year 2000).

Fantastic in-depth reply as always TNP. Thanks

 

[manicmagpie]

Cheers! Think it would be an interesting study area to look into across all teams, but they may just be the business analytics major nerd side of myself coming out

Here's how every Vic team relates to every other Vic team.



Each figure is how the team on the left's average home game against the team at the top compares to the average away game against the same team.

i.e. in the below snapshot it shows Collingwood's home games against Carlton average 1,789 less than their away games against Carlton. Figures are for MCG and Docklands only from 2000-present.

 

[Rezza Tiger]

Weather plus Thursday night looking like a big factor for tonights cowd

 

[Rouel_14]

Here's how every Vic team relates to every other Vic team.

View attachment 351279

Each figure is how the team on the left's average home game against the team at the top compares to the average away game against the same team.

i.e. in the below snapshot it shows Collingwood's home games against Carlton average 1,789 less than their away games against Carlton. Figures are for MCG and Docklands only from 2000-present.

View attachment 351278

Cheers Maniac!

Some insightful stuff there! Plan on analysing it on the 2 hours trek to the game tonight!


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[Tassieboy]

Is Thursday night the reason for the mediocre crowd?

 

[Our Game]

Is Thursday night the reason for the mediocre crowd?

58,236 Not far off the average between the two teams

Richmond Against Collingwood:

Home: 13 @ 62,900
Away: 10 @ 61,300

And it was a bloody cold day threatening to rain So all in all pretty good for a Thursday

A lot better than the paltry 7000? at ANZ for the RL and even though it was raining in Sydney it is still a very poor crowd.

 

[The_Wookie]

Thu AFL Crowd: Richmond v Collingwood - 58,236 at the MCG
Thu NRL Crowd - Canterbury v Brisbane - Crowd: 7,421 at ANZ Stadium

 

[manicmagpie]

Is Thursday night the reason for the mediocre crowd?

Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: yes, plus the weather turned a bit s**t.

There was no rationale for putting this on Thursday night. Play it on a Saturday arvo and many more show up.

 

[Tassieboy]

58,236 Not far off the average between the two teams

Richmond Against Collingwood:

Home: 13 @ 62,900
Away: 10 @ 61,300

And it was a bloody cold day threatening to rain So all in all pretty good for a Thursday

A lot better than the paltry 7000? at ANZ for the RL and even though it was raining in Sydney it is still a very poor crowd.

I don't have data, but there's usually a great disparity in crowds between early and end of season matches between the big 4 Melbourne clubs. Maybe partly due to 3/4 being rubbish most of this century? I'd have thought 70k would have been expected were the match not Thursday. I'm not sure Thursday knocked 11k from the crowd though?

 

[Tassieboy]

Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: yes, plus the weather turned a bit s**t.

There was no rationale for putting this on Thursday night. Play it on a Saturday arvo and many more show up.

Adelaide and Perth also saw lower than usual Thursday night crowds last season. It just doesn't 'feel' right.

 

[Demonoid]

Adelaide and Perth also saw lower than usual Thursday night crowds last season. It just doesn't 'feel' right.

I think Adelaide crows enjoyed playing on Thursday nights last year and they had good crowd. I think its ludicrous that the Tigers had two Thursday night games in a row...

 

[Tassieboy]

I think Adelaide crows enjoyed playing on Thursday nights last year and they had good crowd. I think its ludicrous that the Tigers had two Thursday night games in a row...

38k was down on their usual massive crowds.

 

[wagstaff]

Is Thursday night the reason for the mediocre crowd?

Partly, but also because I get the sense Collingwood fans aren't that enthused about this season and where the club is at so they're going to quickly drop off unless they start a long series of wins.

Also, other sides that could also happen to this year: Hawthorn, Fremantle, North Melbourne.


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[Great8]

Partly, but also because I get the sense Collingwood fans aren't that enthused about this season and where the club is at so they're going to quickly drop off unless they start a long series of wins.

Also, other sides that could also happen to this year: Hawthorn, Fremantle, North Melbourne.


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Wasn't a huge Richmond crowd there tonight either. Would of expected far more for your home game

 

[sverik25]

Please don't start blaming the weather. It's a winter sport, cold weather is part and parcel of going to games. It's not even winter yet anyway; a balmy 18 degrees by winter's standards.

 

[Rouel_14]

Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: yes, plus the weather turned a bit s**t.

There was no rationale for putting this on Thursday night. Play it on a Saturday arvo and many more show up.

Can't help but think tomorrow night would of had another 5000 on the figure and a Saturday Arvo could of added another 5000 on that!

Thursday nights are only good when it is a blockbuster and the crowd will come regardless of time. That's why it tends to work in Adelaide and Perth much better.

Keep the interstaters on Thursday and keep footy in Vic for Friday nights and Saturday arvos!


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[The_Wookie]

not to put it too finely but 58,000 isnt a crowd to be ashamed of, and isnt exactly evidence of it being a flop. If the weather had been better they would have got more.