The fact they don't get anything like those crowds probably makes it even less understandable
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Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings
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The fact they don't get anything like those crowds probably makes it even less understandable
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Rightly or wrongly, it is because people think the league is stale. It is the same old teams in the same old league etc etc.
If you had a spare $100 mil, promotion and relegation would be fantastic. But it is too big of a risk with investors. It is why the MLS doesn't have it either. It is a dreamland by those who ask for it.
Also if a team like Victory finished at the bottom and got relegated, it would be an absolute disaster. Fox just wouldn't allow that to happen. 25% of memberships come from Victory and they have by far the highest average attendances.
Also not sure if the NSW govt would be happy either if WSW got relegated having spent many many millions on Parramatta stadium. It would significantly reduce their ROI and the payback period would be blown out.
I don't think we could see MV ending up on the bottom of the league. They have the money to buy what they need to be competitive & to win.
The biggest problem with a-league, IMO, is that it is a 3rd rate competition. Like with the AFL, people see the best football so the state leagues take a distant second or third rank position in the publics eyes.
Like with soccer, people see the worlds best on TV at the press of a button. Local soccer has divorced from its ethnic base so it relies on the sports market & clearly that is not helping them.
Maybe bringing in Marconi & South Melbourne might help. But like the AFL, they are never wrong, so God knows what they'll do.
As great as this would be for the tigers, I think you are being quite optimistic off the back of what was a year and hope off multiple stars aligning.
Though no prime time spots, the tiges got a dream run for home game fixtures this year which boosted their home game crowds through the roof.
Rd 2 v pies, Anzac Eve
Dreamtime, A resurgent hawks and blues at the time and Nick Rewoldts farewell were all Tigers home games.
To beat this year for crowds will require something pretty special for tigers home games with probably only the Rd one opener compensating these games
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Out of interest, I looked up which teams have finished in the bottom 2 in the A-League's history. Basically a 'what if there was relegation' sort of exercise. I'll exclude defunct teams.
Melbourne Victory S1
Perth Glory S2, 3, 4, 6
Wellington S3, 8, 9
Newcastle S4, 9, 12
Brisbane S5
Adelaide S5, 7, 12
Melbourne Heart/City S8, 9
West Sydney S10
Central Coast S11
So of the current 10 teams, only Sydney have not finished bottom 2. Which isn't really surprising in a salary capped league. And that's a major problem if you're going to bring in promotion and relegation - you have a massive risk of big clubs going down when there's a salary cap. Consequently you can't realistically bring in P/R whilst keeping the cap. Ironically the only unarguable success story of the A-League - the Victory - would have been relegated in season 1 if it was in place. The momentum that they established in seasons 2 and 3 would never have eventuated.
Amongst soccer fans that are in favour of P/R, what is the general feeling towards the salary cap? Is there an acceptance that it would have to go?
Yes. The A league fans trilogy of whishes are. No salary cap. National second division. Pro/Rel.
The Cure for all ills apparently.
My view is, unless it pulls in a lot more support/money, you are adding a lot of cost on. Its hard to see where it comes from.
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How viable are the Central Coast Mariners?
There is no official crowd posted on the
A league website but I watched a highlights package of the match between CCM and MV and there were a heck of alot of empty seats.
Edit: 5,519. Considering it was played 7pm on a Sunday that attendence is somewhat understandable. What is the FFA doing placing games on a Sunday night? I can only imagine they are trying to take advantage of prime time Sunday tv, but the competition for viewers at that time is fierce.
There is no official crowd posted on the
A league website but I watched a highlights package of the match between CCM and MV and there were a heck of alot of empty seats.
Edit: 5,519. Considering it was played 7pm on a Sunday that attendence is somewhat understandable. What is the FFA doing placing games on a Sunday night? I can only imagine they are trying to take advantage of prime time Sunday tv, but the competition for viewers at that time is fierce.
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The Mariners are generally the least supported club crowd wise, and have played a few games here in Canberra over the past few years with disastrous results...they ain't coming back.
On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
They dont have a lot of options unless they either risk dangerously hot conditions or have games clash. Which is probably against the tv deal.
- Nov 22, 2016
- 2,169
- 2,856
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- North Adelaide, Arsenal.
This is the issue, even with a salary cap league clubs like them, Newcastle (before this season) and Wellington struggle to maintain competitiveness in the league, Victory and Sydney have always been the strongest teams. If they took away the salary cap these clubs wouldn't have a chance to continue to be competitive and victory and Sydney would have a massive control over the league that would further devalue it.
It has been a while, but maybe madmug is a touch on the elderly side.
http://demonwiki.org/July+1895+Match+vs+Port+Melbourne
- Nov 22, 2016
- 2,169
- 2,856
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- North Adelaide, Arsenal.
No surprise Adelaide being given 7 Thursday/Friday night games. Involved in the two highest prime time H/A games last season. Be interesting to see the TV ratings for the Adelaide/Essendon and Adelaide/Sydney games next season, hopefully rival the total's seen in the H/A this year.
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Until we get the 2018 thread going...
New attendance record in 2018? AFL says yes
THE AFL has sought to capitalise on the impact of the new Perth Stadium, targeting a home and away attendance record in 2018 on the back of the state of the art venue.
An extra Perth match has been scheduled in 2018, with Fremantle winning the rights to play Gold Coast in an 'away' game at the new stadium in round three, giving the venue back-to-back games on the weekend of April 7-8.
AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan believes the League can break last year's attendance record of 6,732,601 with the help of the country's second largest AFL venue.
"It's going to be an unbelievable venue," McLachlan said as he launched the 2018 fixture at the MCG on Tuesday.
"We expect a lot of people to want to travel and go to this venue and its addition is going to have a huge impact on the 2018 fixture generally.
"We had an extraordinary year in 2017, posting our record ever home and away attendance of over 6.7 million attending 198 matches.
"We think we can beat that attendance record in 2018, certainly helped by the addition of the new stadium in Perth."
Adelaide Oval posted a record home and away attendance of 999,254 across 22 matches in 2014, its first year of operation as an AFL venue, and the League is banking on a similar rush from fans to experience football at Perth Stadium.
Home-and-away attendances at Adelaide Oval have since fallen slightly to 937,090 (2015), 947,282 (2016) and 932,645 (2017).
While West Coast has been given the right to open the stadium to football fans in round one, the bonus 'home' game shapes as excellent compensation for the Dockers, who will pay the Suns a fee.
AFL fixture boss Travis Auld said the Eagles were the happiest of the WA teams, given they won the rights to open Perth Stadium, but the Dockers had been given excellent concessions.
"Happiness is a relative thing (and) the Eagles are the happiest," Auld said.
"They were fortunate it was their turn to come around and play the first game, wherever it was, in Perth. They were very pleased that was the case.
"Giving Freo Essendon on Saturday night (to debut at Perth Stadium) was a big opportunity for them, and Essendon has got a massive supporter base in Perth. They're happy about that."
While Perth Stadium will be a major attraction for football fans in 2018, it will not feature on the Friday night stage for either club. Round 23 remains a floating fixture.
Of the 22 matches scheduled at the venue, before round 23, 14 of them fall on a Sunday afternoon or twilight slot, three on a Saturday day or twilight, and four on a Saturday night.
The Eagles will host Essendon in round 14 in the venue's only Thursday slot for the season.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-31/new-attendance-record-in-2018-afl-says-yes
New attendance record in 2018? AFL says yes
THE AFL has sought to capitalise on the impact of the new Perth Stadium, targeting a home and away attendance record in 2018 on the back of the state of the art venue.
An extra Perth match has been scheduled in 2018, with Fremantle winning the rights to play Gold Coast in an 'away' game at the new stadium in round three, giving the venue back-to-back games on the weekend of April 7-8.
AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan believes the League can break last year's attendance record of 6,732,601 with the help of the country's second largest AFL venue.
"It's going to be an unbelievable venue," McLachlan said as he launched the 2018 fixture at the MCG on Tuesday.
"We expect a lot of people to want to travel and go to this venue and its addition is going to have a huge impact on the 2018 fixture generally.
"We had an extraordinary year in 2017, posting our record ever home and away attendance of over 6.7 million attending 198 matches.
"We think we can beat that attendance record in 2018, certainly helped by the addition of the new stadium in Perth."
Adelaide Oval posted a record home and away attendance of 999,254 across 22 matches in 2014, its first year of operation as an AFL venue, and the League is banking on a similar rush from fans to experience football at Perth Stadium.
Home-and-away attendances at Adelaide Oval have since fallen slightly to 937,090 (2015), 947,282 (2016) and 932,645 (2017).
While West Coast has been given the right to open the stadium to football fans in round one, the bonus 'home' game shapes as excellent compensation for the Dockers, who will pay the Suns a fee.
AFL fixture boss Travis Auld said the Eagles were the happiest of the WA teams, given they won the rights to open Perth Stadium, but the Dockers had been given excellent concessions.
"Happiness is a relative thing (and) the Eagles are the happiest," Auld said.
"They were fortunate it was their turn to come around and play the first game, wherever it was, in Perth. They were very pleased that was the case.
"Giving Freo Essendon on Saturday night (to debut at Perth Stadium) was a big opportunity for them, and Essendon has got a massive supporter base in Perth. They're happy about that."
While Perth Stadium will be a major attraction for football fans in 2018, it will not feature on the Friday night stage for either club. Round 23 remains a floating fixture.
Of the 22 matches scheduled at the venue, before round 23, 14 of them fall on a Sunday afternoon or twilight slot, three on a Saturday day or twilight, and four on a Saturday night.
The Eagles will host Essendon in round 14 in the venue's only Thursday slot for the season.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-31/new-attendance-record-in-2018-afl-says-yes
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
If my quick mental maths are right, Perth Stadium should add another 400-500k attendees this year?
That means that if the number of non-Perth attendees is similar to 2012, the lowest number in the 18-team competition, the crowd numbers will be similar anyway.
I think breaking the crowd record is a given, that it shouldn't even really be newsworthy.
That means that if the number of non-Perth attendees is similar to 2012, the lowest number in the 18-team competition, the crowd numbers will be similar anyway.
I think breaking the crowd record is a given, that it shouldn't even really be newsworthy.
manicmagpie
A slice of fried gold
Can't see the increase in Perth getting anywhere near 500k. WC averaged 36k this year but even if the stadium is a big success they will probably still only average mid 50s, so that's around a 220k increase.
Freo on the other hand are a bit of an unknown quantity crowd wise for 2018. They averaged 32k this year and it's difficult to see them averaging 50k. As an absolute guess they'll get mid 40s. If they get 45k they'll add around 140k, plus their 'away' game against GC would get 30k more in Perth than at Metricon.
All of that would mean Perth would still fall short of 400k extra.
This should still mean a new overall record in 2018, but it's still newsworthy. If we get a new record because of the new stadium it will be proof that the demand for AFL was always bigger than the already huge crowd numbers indicated, it was just waiting for infrastructure to catch up. Not many other codes in this country could say the same of their current situation.
I would agree with this assessment. There's also the Gold Coast Freo game but 400K seems like a bit of a ceiling in terms of perth increase. It is hard to see the AFL not breaking its record though. More interesting would be if we can crack 7 million. We were 270K short this year so there is a buffer there considering it is hard to see Perth stadium not increasing crowds by more than that....anything over 6.93 million (about 200K more than this year) would push AFL averages back above 35K
kaypee
All Australian
I think it's newsworthy. there is a lot to despise about the AFL but stewardship of the professional game isn't one of them. They've taken a suburban, idiocentric, hard to understand game that was endangered of being swamped by globalism and cemented it's spot as the dominant code in Australia, and one that drives investment in infrastructure.
I think Australian football is the best game going, but had the AFL not gots its house in order in the 1980s, I suspect we'd now be watching a dying game while the rectangle sports took over.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
I reckon, similar to the Adelaide Oval expansion, that more people will flock to the games due to the fact it's something that's shiny and new. Port Adelaide's crowds went up almost 17k per home game, just by virtue of the new stadium, before slipping every year since - and that's with a smaller difference in capacity for the two grounds. I don't think it's unrealistic to say Freo would average at least 50k in the stadium.
And in terms of the word "newsworthy", maybe it was a poor choice of words - what I meant to say they shouldn't claim it as something surprising and unexpected when it's simply common sense and logical with the new stadium that the attendance record would be broken.
- Nov 22, 2016
- 2,169
- 2,856
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- North Adelaide, Arsenal.
And yet so many people ring in and complain about footy was better in the 80's. So easy to forget how bad the crowds and the state of the game was back then and only remember the good.
Great summary. The AFL do get a lot of things right and the way they manage the media to benefit the game is outstanding.
Even the story about the woman with her knockers out gobbled up a massive amount of coverage and I doubt the general public would have been outraged like some of the female media tarts.
As the famous US circus owner P T Barnum said "any publicity is good publicity" and he sure knew how to promote.
The slow leaking of the fixture is another example of the AFL playing the media to their benefit.
manicmagpie
A slice of fried gold
Question to people in Perth: what appears to be the prevailing sentiment towards the new stadium? Is it excitement and pride or are people already grumbling about it?
Makes a huge difference going forward. Docklands and Adelaide Oval are both terrific places to watch footy but one of them benefited from enormous goodwill when it opened and the other made a bad first impression with some PR stuff ups and its reputation has never recovered.
Makes a huge difference going forward. Docklands and Adelaide Oval are both terrific places to watch footy but one of them benefited from enormous goodwill when it opened and the other made a bad first impression with some PR stuff ups and its reputation has never recovered.
- Nov 22, 2016
- 2,169
- 2,856
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- North Adelaide, Arsenal.
Just thought i do some estimate crowd figures the first 3 rounds of next season: Great for others feedback.
Round 1:
Richmond V Carlton MCG 86,478
Essendon V Adelaide Docklands 40,756
St.Kilda V Brisbane Docklands 23,786
Port Power V Fremantle AO 38,439
Gold Coast V North Cairns 10,807
Hawthorn V Collingwood MCG 71,374
Western Sydney V Bulldogs Manuka 14,017
Melbourne V Geelong MCG 45,278
West Coast V Sydney PS 55,601
Round 2:
Adelaide V Richmond AO 53,208
North V St.Kilda Docklands 38,755
Carlton V Gold Coast Docklands 23,491
Collingwood V Western Sydney MCG 32,901
Brisbane V Melbourne GABBA 17,455
Fremantle V Essendon PS 54,308
Bulldogs V West Coast Docklands 30,717
Sydney V Port Power SCG 34,158
Geelong V Hawthorn MCG 72,541
Round 3:
Carlton V Collingwood MCG 67,598
Port Power V Brisbane AO 35,667
Melbourne V North MCG 32,796
Gold Coast V Fremantle PS 35,000
Sydney V Western Sydney SCG 38,275
St.Kilda V Adelaide Docklands 26,451
Richmond V Hawthorn MCG 64,281
Bulldogs V Essendon Docklands 47,474
West coast V Geelong PS 56,475
Round 1:
Richmond V Carlton MCG 86,478
Essendon V Adelaide Docklands 40,756
St.Kilda V Brisbane Docklands 23,786
Port Power V Fremantle AO 38,439
Gold Coast V North Cairns 10,807
Hawthorn V Collingwood MCG 71,374
Western Sydney V Bulldogs Manuka 14,017
Melbourne V Geelong MCG 45,278
West Coast V Sydney PS 55,601
Round 2:
Adelaide V Richmond AO 53,208
North V St.Kilda Docklands 38,755
Carlton V Gold Coast Docklands 23,491
Collingwood V Western Sydney MCG 32,901
Brisbane V Melbourne GABBA 17,455
Fremantle V Essendon PS 54,308
Bulldogs V West Coast Docklands 30,717
Sydney V Port Power SCG 34,158
Geelong V Hawthorn MCG 72,541
Round 3:
Carlton V Collingwood MCG 67,598
Port Power V Brisbane AO 35,667
Melbourne V North MCG 32,796
Gold Coast V Fremantle PS 35,000
Sydney V Western Sydney SCG 38,275
St.Kilda V Adelaide Docklands 26,451
Richmond V Hawthorn MCG 64,281
Bulldogs V Essendon Docklands 47,474
West coast V Geelong PS 56,475
What happened to GC v Freo - are you predicting 35k even?
I must say I reckon you are pretty much on the mark. I think a sell out for the first game at Perth Stadium is a guarantee. Question is, for this stadium, how many will turn up. Given its the very first game I think you'll see close to 60k there. Predicting the first round or two can be a good exercise but from round 3 things will start depending on earlier results. E.g. if Carlton and Collingwood are both coming in undefeated with 2 wins each you can bank on over 70k. Two losses and you'll be lucky to get 60k.
- Nov 22, 2016
- 2,169
- 2,856
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- North Adelaide, Arsenal.
Gold Coast/Fremantle is being played at the new Perth Stadium, with the commonwealth games they sold a game there. 35k is a safe prediction, really i got no idea what the attendance could be. Hoping Perth Stadium is exactly like Adelaide oval with its attraction and crowd pull, irrelevant of how both WA team perform.What happened to GC v Freo - are you predicting 35k even?
I must say I reckon you are pretty much on the mark. I think a sell out for the first game at Perth Stadium is a guarantee. Question is, for this stadium, how many will turn up. Given its the very first game I think you'll see close to 60k there. Predicting the first round or two can be a good exercise but from round 3 things will start depending on earlier results. E.g. if Carlton and Collingwood are both coming in undefeated with 2 wins each you can bank on over 70k. Two losses and you'll be lucky to get 60k.
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