Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings

[Teen Wolf]

Was it biggest, or best?

Biggest and best, according to one quote in this article. In what ways exactly? I don't know, sponsorship and grassroots participation were mentioned among other things, but you get the feeling it would've been just as meticulous to say "bashiest".

 

[Cmarsh]

Judging by all the empty seats at the 20000 capacity nth sydney oval, I would say the wbbl has quite a way to go before it can claim it is the world's biggest women's sporting league.

 

[jatz14]

Biggest and best, according to one quote in this article. In what ways exactly? I don't know, sponsorship and grassroots participation were mentioned among other things, but you get the feeling it would've been just as meticulous to say "bashiest".

That is a lofty aim. Biggest in Australia is going to be a real stretch, let alone anywhere else.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I would assume that the WNBA is bigger than the WBBL

 

[Cmarsh]

I would assume that the WNBA is bigger than the WBBL

The running joke in the US re the WNBA is would you rather $5 or your city's WNBA team to win the championship.

Apparently most people would choose the $5.

 

[NoobPie]

The A-League is currently plagued by massive governance issues where there is a lack of any real progress.
You look on soccer forums and even the diehards and core support are unenthused with the current regime, lack of marketing, current league structure, stupid fixturing, playing each other three times (boring), lack of marquees, same recycled players and limited youth filtering through to 9 professional sides.
If the people who actually like the game & clubs can even get into this season then what hope do you have of actually growing the game or attracting casual supporters to the stands.

As Bozza said about three years ago "fans can do without the football, but football cannot do without the fans".
This season is basically a write off from collateral damage but the scary thing is the owners of the clubs could pack their bags and run due to a lack of transparency from the Lowy regime if things don't change.

Those sound like cop outs to me. Most fans of the AFL and NRL think that those leagues are run incompetently, probably think if it was rather done x, y or z it would be much better.

Bottom line is, that it has demonstrated itself consistently to be disproportionately full of piss and wind.

Australians largely prefer more dynamic football codes for a start - as by the way does every country that had some other code established first. But also Australians have the best competitions in a range of sports happening in their country. Why are they going to jump on board a third tier league in significant numbers?

These australian soccer fanchises have followed the same trajectory since Perth Glory and Northern Spirit - novelty factor and decent crowds and interest that slowly atrophies and leaves a rump of blow hards taking themselves to seriously. Said blow hards start thrashing around grasping at excuses as to why interest is waning. This is the story of franchise soccer in this country for 20 years

 

[NoobPie]

I would assume that the WNBA is bigger than the WBBL

It most definitely is. That said I think it was a plausible ambition to assert.

 

[jatz14]

It most definitely is. That said I think it was a plausible ambition to assert.

The WNBA is bigger, but that is entirely because its a much bigger country. As Cmarsh said, it has little cut through in the US. I think womens sport has a much higher profile here in general than it does in the US. It makes the aim of being the best womens sport achievable, not sure about biggest.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The WNBA is bigger, but that is entirely because its a much bigger country. As Cmarsh said, it has little cut through in the US. I think womens sport has a much higher profile here in general than it does in the US. It makes the aim of being the best womens sport achievable, not sure about biggest.

Possibly because sport here in Australia is more intertwined with community and society than in America, where their history of private ownership of teams and concept of sports as an "entertainment product" goes back to the 19th century.

 

[BobbyMorri]

The WNBA is bigger, but that is entirely because its a much bigger country. As Cmarsh said, it has little cut through in the US. I think womens sport has a much higher profile here in general than it does in the US. It makes the aim of being the best womens sport achievable, not sure about biggest.

"Club" sport perhaps. But at college(i dont know much about this TBH) and especially international level, it is seems quite big. Just look at the US womens Soccer team and 90K for the final nearly 20 years ago. The US tennis Open was the first to offer equal prize money.(helped that King was American)

We cant claim to have cared that much about women's AFL, Cricket or even soccer 10 years ago. Only Netball really cut through.

 

[jatz14]

"Club" sport perhaps. But at college(i dont know much about this TBH) and especially international level, it is seems quite big. Just look at the US womens Soccer team and 90K for the final nearly 20 years ago. The US tennis Open was the first to offer equal prize money.(helped that King was American)

We cant claim to have cared that much about women's AFL, Cricket or even soccer 10 years ago. Only Netball really cut through.

Just had a quick look.
College basketball average attendance 2017 was 1586 in Div 1, 434 Div 2 and 225 Div 3. Of course given there is over 1000 teams, and they play 14 000 games, total attendance is still 11 mill. Number 1 college had average home games of 12300.

Colleges are also a bit of a captured market, and the averages were a little below what I was expecting to be honest.

WNBA averages a bit over 7000 generally. Seems good until you figure in, this is a 20 year old comp with all single team cities, playing a nationwide sport.

The NWSL is interesting, average crowds of 5083, however Portland averaged 17K. Only 1 other team averaged over 5K. Half the teams in the league averaged under 4K. Portland it seems is a town that does not have a Football team, a basketball team, hockey team or a baseball team. All they have is a soccer team, and both the mens and womens are really well supported. So, the US national team is well supported, but the US national league (the biggest i =n the world), had a smaller average crowd than the AFLW.

To put this in perspective.
AFLW averaged 6800, with half the league averaging over 5k, and none averaging under 4K
W-league averages a bit less than half what the NWSL (if you leave out Portland), in a country 1 20th the size.

 

[Cmarsh]

Just had a quick look.
College basketball average attendance 2017 was 1586 in Div 1, 434 Div 2 and 225 Div 3. Of course given there is over 1000 teams, and they play 14 000 games, total attendance is still 11 mill. Number 1 college had average home games of 12300.

Colleges are also a bit of a captured market, and the averages were a little below what I was expecting to be honest.

WNBA averages a bit over 7000 generally. Seems good until you figure in, this is a 20 year old comp with all single team cities, playing a nationwide sport.

The NWSL is interesting, average crowds of 5083, however Portland averaged 17K. Only 1 other team averaged over 5K. Half the teams in the league averaged under 4K. Portland it seems is a town that does not have a Football team, a basketball team, hockey team or a baseball team. All they have is a soccer team, and both the mens and womens are really well supported. So, the US national team is well supported, but the US national league (the biggest i =n the world), had a smaller average crowd than the AFLW.

To put this in perspective.
AFLW averaged 6800, with half the league averaging over 5k, and none averaging under 4K
W-league averages a bit less than half what the NWSL (if you leave out Portland), in a country 1 20th the size.

A couple of things -
- The AFLW does not charge for entry. I doubt this is the case for NWSL and WNBA.

- The W league games often are right behind A league games so capture some of their crowds.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Just had a quick look.
College basketball average attendance 2017 was 1586 in Div 1, 434 Div 2 and 225 Div 3. Of course given there is over 1000 teams, and they play 14 000 games, total attendance is still 11 mill. [Women's?] Number 1 college had average home games of 12300.

Colleges are also a bit of a captured market, and the averages were a little below what I was expecting to be honest.

WNBA averages a bit over 7000 generally. Seems good until you figure in, this is a 20 year old comp with all single team cities, playing a nationwide sport.

The NWSL is interesting, average crowds of 5083, however Portland averaged 17K. Only 1 other team averaged over 5K. Half the teams in the league averaged under 4K. Portland it seems is a town that does not have a Football team, a basketball team, hockey team or a baseball team. All they have is a soccer team, and both the mens and womens are really well supported. So, the US national team is well supported, but the US national league (the biggest i =n the world), had a smaller average crowd than the AFLW.

To put this in perspective.
AFLW averaged 6800, with half the league averaging over 5k, and none averaging under 4K
W-league averages a bit less than half what the NWSL (if you leave out Portland), in a country 1 20th the size.

Great summary.

This info. indicates to me it is almost certain that the AFLW will soon, staggeringly, have the highest average female attendance (ie 7000+) in the world, after Netball! I think it will surpass netball if AFLW teams have access to stadia that hold 12,000+.
I wonder what Mr T.Wills would think of this. I hope they invent a time machine soon - I want to go back! Who wants to join me?
Coll. will move to 15,000 Vic.Park, EFC, RFC, HFC, Carlton, WCFC etc. have big memberships/crowds, which will flow onto the AFLW (especially when the standard inevitably rises over the next 10 years).

Any further info. on why Portland soccer women's team is such a big outlier, & averages 17000?
There must be many cities in the US with a female soccer team, which also dont have a Gridiron, baseball, basketball or hockey pro. team.

Is the US College basketball total attendance of c. 11,000,000 for the female teams? Very impressive no.
Incidentally, Aust.'s pop. is about 1/12 of the USA.

EDIT:
For ratings, the AFLW overtook Super Netball in 2017

 

[BobbyMorri]

The NWSL is interesting, average crowds of 5083, however Portland averaged 17K. Only 1 other team averaged over 5K. Half the teams in the league averaged under 4K. Portland it seems is a town that does not have a Football team, a basketball team, hockey team or a baseball team. All they have is a soccer team, and both the mens and womens are really well supported. So, the US national team is well supported, but the US national league (the biggest i =n the world), had a smaller average crowd than the AFLW.

To put this in perspective.
AFLW averaged 6800, with half the league averaging over 5k, and none averaging under 4K
W-league averages a bit less than half what the NWSL (if you leave out Portland), in a country 1 20th the size.

Portland Trail Blazers (NBA). If you include Seattle(3 hours away), then you have the Mariners(MLB) and the Seahawks(NFL) as well. The whole of Oregon and Washington State are a bit of an oddity. The Seattle Sounders are the biggest MLS team and Portland are in the top half. . It is why that attendance is so out of place.

 

[NoobPie]

The w league rarely gets 1k to games nor bothers the ratings agencies. Like the a league, it is one part substance with 9 parts piss and wind.

In the last session of the wbbl last night there 469k watching on average.

Meanwhile the Sydney derby, comically presented as some blue ribbon fixture in Australian sport, had just 55k watching on average on one, and a further 81k on fox. Fully 3 and a half times the number of Australians chose to watch women's cricket over men's soccer

I agree that Australia is set to become the gold standard in women's professional team sport. But it will be in cricket, Australian football and netball (and rugby league if anything else) - that is, the Australian sports

 

[BobbyMorri]

Is the US College basketball total attendance of c. 11,000,000 for the female teams? Very impressive no.
Incidentally, Aust.'s pop. is about 1/12 of the USA.

Its actually nuts. Its bigger than the AFLs total attendence. A LOT of games(just over 5,000(perhaps more) in a huge country but damn.........That is just for the women. The men get nearly 30 mil.

Has anyone ever done a total attendence for Aussie Rules as a whole. Every club or at least every major state league.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The w league rarely gets 1k to games nor bothers the ratings agencies. Like the a league, it is one part substance with 9 parts piss and wind.

In the last session of the wbbl last night there 469k watching on average.

Meanwhile the Sydney derby, comically presented as some blue ribbon fixture in Australian sport, had just 55k watching on average on one, and a further 81k on fox. Fully 3 and a half times the number of Australians chose to watch women's cricket over men's soccer

I agree that Australia is set to become the gold standard in women's professional team sport. But it will be in cricket, Australian football and netball (and rugby league if anything else) - that is, the Australian sports

That would be a huge worry for the A-League. Dwindling ratings and crowds would have to be putting huge pressure on their ability to retain sponsors let alone attract more in an expanded competition, which they desperately need. I've been pretty strong in my belief that they need to expand the amount of teams and quickly but the more time goes on you can see why they are reluctant. They could be 1 failed expansion side away from a NBL type disaster. They have to get it 100% right.

 

[Our Game]

That would be a huge worry for the A-League. Dwindling ratings and crowds would have to be putting huge pressure on their ability to retain sponsors let alone attract more in an expanded competition, which they desperately need. I've been pretty strong in my belief that they need to expand the amount of teams and quickly but the more time goes on you can see why they are reluctant. They could be 1 failed expansion side away from a NBL type disaster. They have to get it 100% right.

Poster boys WSW getting thrashed by Sydney FC 5 - 0 last night wont help the crowds to improve.The other shocker was the dismal 5172 crowd at C Bus stadium Gold Coast last night.

As I have said before they will need every dollar they get from the WC just to stay afloat esp if the Lowys pull their Westfield sponsorship as a result of the son getting the arse by FIFA.

 

[Cmarsh]

Poster boys WSW getting thrashed by Sydney FC 5 - 0 last night wont help the crowds to improve.The other shocker was the dismal 5172 crowd at Suncorp last night.

As I have said before they will need every dollar they get from the WC just to stay afloat esp if the Lowys pull their Westfield sponsorship as a result of the son getting the arse by FIFA.

Perhaps a minor point but that game was played on the gold coast last night. Still a poor crowd.

 

[jatz14]

A couple of things -
- The AFLW does not charge for entry. I doubt this is the case for NWSL and WNBA.

- The W league games often are right behind A league games so capture some of their crowds.

People keep pointing out the entry fee. Personally, I don't think it will make any difference. The people going, go because the want to, and the AFL is not going to be charging a lot when (if) they do charge.

Heard of people unhappy they cannot pay, as that would be a way to support the women's team. Haven't heard of anyone saying, I went to a game, but only because it was free.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[jatz14]

Portland Trail Blazers (NBA). If you include Seattle(3 hours away), then you have the Mariners(MLB) and the Seahawks(NFL) as well. The whole of Oregon and Washington State are a bit of an oddity. The Seattle Sounders are the biggest MLS team and Portland are in the top half. . It is why that attendance is so out of place.

Forgot about the trail blazers. I do know the Portland MLS men's team gets fanatical support, and that support seems to have taken on the women's team as well. What it is about Portland that makes this happen there I am not sure.

It may relate to size and community feel. People see the team as 'their' team in a way that is not true elsewhere. From memory, most of the other teams are from big cities and may struggle to get noticed.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[BobbyMorri]

People keep pointing out the entry fee. Personally, I don't think it will make any difference. The people going, go because the want to, and the AFL is not going to be charging a lot when (if) they do charge.

Heard of people unhappy they cannot pay, as that would be a way to support the women's team. Haven't heard of anyone saying, I went to a game, but only because it was free.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

I do agree with you (to a certain extent) that you shouldn't downgrade AFLW attendances just because they are offering free tickets. They got people in and that's that. it's great that it is at free cost. It also has an audience.

But economic theory indicates if you up the price, you lower the demand to some extent. The double banger is when something is at free cost, it makes people think differently and irrationally. It's an economic theory I have heard

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/06/psychology-of-free-donuts/395021/

Most transactions have an upside and a downside, but when something is FREE! we forget the downside. FREE! gives us such an emotional charge that we perceive what is being offered as immensely more valuable than it really is.

It would make a difference. Who knows how much. But the AFLW will continue to offer free attendance(good) so it really is a moot point.

 

[Our Game]

Perhaps a minor point but that game was played on the gold coast last night. Still a poor crowd.

My bad. Fixed thanks

 

[Professor Knowall]

The WNBA is bigger, but that is entirely because its a much bigger country. As Cmarsh said, it has little cut through in the US. I think womens sport has a much higher profile here in general than it does in the US. It makes the aim of being the best womens sport achievable, not sure about biggest.

The WBBL ratings over the weekend shows how far it's come - can't see any womens pro league in the US getting anywhere near the relative ratings (allowing for 14 times population) -
www.sportingnews.com/au/cricket/news/wbbl-pulls-in-huge-tv-ratings-as-it-upstages-sydney-derby-cricket-football/1p4m952c8pj0h17550ql88tcqs

 

[Ned_Flanders]

People keep pointing out the entry fee. Personally, I don't think it will make any difference. The people going, go because the want to, and the AFL is not going to be charging a lot when (if) they do charge.

Heard of people unhappy they cannot pay, as that would be a way to support the women's team. Haven't heard of anyone saying, I went to a game, but only because it was free.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Dont underestimate people being cheap

Used to work in a cinema in my younger days, and "cheap arse tuesday" nuked attendances for every day of the week except saturday. When it was stopped, tuesday was on par with worst day of the week with wednesday