Analysis 2017 Best 22

[didaksrightfoot]

Agree with those who are questioning all the Keeffe selections - wtf? I think he will be good depth, but will be behind all of Reid, Marsh and Frost in the rotations.

My lineup: (assuming Cloke, Brown and Williams are all gone, and not adding any possible returns at this stage)

B: Maynard, Marsh, Sinclair
HB: Howe, Reid, Langdon
- Ramsay and Scharenberg come in when healthy and some VFL games under their belt. Sinclair probably to be rotated out, and maybe move Howe to wing/forward. If Langdon gets back to good form once he's healthy - he should be a fixture off HB, if not to be a rotation player.
- I would wanna turn Marsh into the FB to play on the mobile tall forwards - if he can't then Frost comes in for that role, and we consider playing all 3 of Frost/Reid/Marsh depending on opposition.
- I like Adams coming back as a midfielder, but shouldn't be a fixture in defence.

C: Sidebottom, Adams, Aish
Foll: Grundy, Pendles, Treloar
- I think we will see much more of JDG on ball next year, but he's still clearly behind all those guys in the rotation (except maybe Aish - who is much more suited to the outside mid role). Depending on the rate of JDG's development could move Sidey to a more forward position, Pendles or Treloar to be a bit more of an outside mid, and throw JDG into the contest.
- Obviously gonna see a lot of rotation through our midfield and small HF positions, but I think we will be pretty fixed with who are our best at the top end of that group.
- Grundy has clearly cemented his spot as No 1 ruck. I would love Witt's to stay as the back-up/insurance, and maybe try them again as a combo with Witts in that Cox forward position, but would not judge him at all if he wants to leave for more opportunities.

HF: Varcoe, White, De Goey
FF: Elliott, Moore, Fasolo
- Would love Broomhead to be healthy for long enough to get himself into that lineup, but right now he's probably behind all those guys, Blair and Crocker. JDG spending more time in the midfield will create a bit more space up here for another of those smalls to fit in.
- I see Cox playing 10-odd games as a backup, but no way we should be playing those 3 talls again - we just look far too slow.
- Would be great to get a young upgrade on White, but right now I am pretty content with what he offers us.
- Lets wait to see what Brown and Daicos can provide at this level before throwing them in.

Int: Crisp, Greenwood, Smith, Blair
Obviously with rotation of all the extra guys I listed above, as well as Goldsack, Wills, Phillips etc.

 

[mike123]

I can't believe how many have Keeffe in the side let alone at FB. He wasn't good enough to play FB before he missed 2 years. Brown has ability, experience and strength over Keeffe. Keefe will compete with Frost and others for a 3rd tall defender spot until we get someone better - which may end up being Marsh but he has a long way to go.

I had him in assuming Brown goes If Brown stays its his spot and up to Keeffe to take it off one of Marsh or Brown. As you said its been two years and he's been fit so I'd assume (hope) he's hit the gym and gotten stronger.

Reality is we don't have a true full back if he goes, as Reid you want him on a less dangerous forward to rebound and Marsh and Keeffe aren't quite suited to monsters yet. Frost has already proven he's depth only from now on IMO. He's a shut down only player and even as a shut down player he has his weaknesses.

The main reason why Keeffe is selected in these best 22's are because of footskills, and probably because of the amount of times we switch the ball to Brown. Again if Brown stays I'd have him ahead but I'm not expecting him two.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

For those adding Scharenberg into the team, I presume it's about making the jump that Matt will make it, in a strong way.
If the side is to improve, I imagine his play will be part of it.

For me it's certainly part hope, part expectation, part judging based on what we know.

In other words id punt on him, even now, over others

 

[MarkT2]

The main reason why Keeffe is selected in these best 22's are because of footskills, and probably because of the amount of times we switch the ball to Brown. Again if Brown stays I'd have him ahead but I'm not expecting him two.

Sadly these days I don't expect anyone to stay bar a few very highly paid disciples. If we wanted Brown to stay we would make sure he stayed - same with Cloke. We don't have a confidence building environment we have the opposite and it shows in form and results. Brown, like Cloke, looks down on confidence and security.

 

[Shaneprice97]

FB: Brayden Maynard, Sam Reid, Jon Marsh
HB: Taylor Adams, Ben Reid, Jeremy Howe
C: Steele Sidebottom, Jack Crisp, James Aish
HF: Jamie Elliott, Darcy Moore, Travis Varcoe
F: Alex Fasolo, Peter Wright, Mason Cox
Ruck: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Adam Treloar
I/C: Jordan De Goey, Levi Greenwood, Marley Williams, *player i missed*.

Sam we could get cheap, and get the Wright trade done!

 

[MarkT2]

What would we trade for Wright?
They'd want 2 first rounders and we don't have 1.

 

[Matt_352]

What would we trade for Wright?
They'd want 2 first rounders and we don't have 1.

1 first and a 2017 2nd is fair they can even have oxley

 

[MarkT2]

1 first and a 2017 2nd is fair they can even have oxley

Nice dream. He'd be a great get and with Moore we'd have a great forward set up to build around but unfortunately they won't take that, others would outbid it anyway and we don't have a first round pick even if it was a viable trade. On top of that we will need picks for father-son selections of Brown and/or Daicos.

 

[Matt_352]

Nice dream. He'd be a great get and with Moore we'd have a great forward set up to build around but unfortunately they won't take that, others would outbid it anyway and we don't have a first round pick even if it was a viable trade. On top of that we will need picks for father-son selections of Brown and/or Daicos.

He isnt worth 2 firsts

 

[MarkT2]

He isnt worth 2 firsts

Probably not and if so neither was Treloar. Thats' what they would want and someone would probably pay it. If not then sure as hell we can't offer much without a first round pick and no one that we can spare that would remotely get near a trade for one.

It just isn't possible.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Nice dream. He'd be a great get and with Moore we'd have a great forward set up to build around but unfortunately they won't take that, others would outbid it anyway and we don't have a first round pick even if it was a viable trade.

There is a bidding system for players wishing to change clubs now?

 

[Matt_352]

Probably not and if so neither was Treloar. Thats' what they would want and someone would probably pay it. If not then sure as hell we can't offer much without a first round pick and no one that we can spare that would remotely get near a trade for one.

It just isn't possible.

Wright isn't worth as much as Treloar

 

[MarkT2]

Wright isn't worth as much as Treloar

Good tall forwards always fetch more than good mids. They want 2 first rounders for O'Meara

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Good tall forwards always fetch more than good mids. They want 2 first rounders for O'Meara

Won't get it though.

You have to pay a premium on a top young player because much of the bust risk is taken out of it for you. Top 10 picks bust more often than people acknowledge.

 

[MarkT2]

There is a bidding system for players wishing to change clubs now?

There always has been. If we offer our second round pick and Oxley and someone else and someone else offers 2 first rounders we don't et the trade done. If the market value is set by other offers and we aren't in the game we get outbid. There's no literal bidding system for salaries and premiership prospects but they sure as hell determine where players go.

 

[MarkT2]

Won't get it though.

You have to pay a premium on a top young player because much of the bust risk is taken out of it for you. Top 10 picks bust more often than people acknowledge.

I don't think they'll get it either but probably only because of his knee. GWS got it for Treloar. Youth and theoretical upside are generally very over rated in trade deals.

If GC put 2m Peter (helps to have a catchy nickname) on the market they would get 2 first rounders without any doubt whatsoever. Carlton would line up to hand over their 2016 and 2017 first picks. So would we if we had one this year. So would a lot of clubs. He's not getting put up for trade though so it's all academic.

Agree on the top 10 pick return.

 

[Matt_352]

Good tall forwards always fetch more than good mids. They want 2 first rounders for O'Meara

They can want what they want they not getting it. Omeara is only worth 1 first rounder

 

[MarkT2]

Matt, I agree they won't get it but they have clearly stated that Treloar is the price benchmark. They would value Wright higher than O'Meara. Anyway, as I said, he's not up for trade.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

There always has been. If we offer our second round pick and Oxley and someone else and someone else offers 2 first rounders we don't et the trade done. If the market value is set by other offers and we aren't in the game we get outbid. There's no literal bidding system for salaries and premiership prospects but they sure as hell determine where players go.

Players have a lot more autonomy these days, they nominate a club and the deal either happens or it doesn't. Players discuss their options with their agents and determine which club best suits their needs and also has the capital to get a trade done. We've also gotten to the point of players sitting out league seasons, threatening to go in the National Draft, or leaving for nothing in FA the following year to get to their club of choice.

If it was simply a bidding system, Aish would be at North Melbourne right now.

 

[MarkT2]

If there is minimal difference then I agree. If we offer 1 first rounder (and we don't even have one) and another Vic club(s) offer 2 we don't get the deal done. Don't take it literally but there is and always been a bidding system and that's just to get into the negotiating room. In our favour, we finally have a decent negotiator working for us. Gubby is the master. You can bet if he was on our side rather than theirs we wouldn't have paid any of Shaw's salary and we'd have a first round pick this year. Not sure exactly what we wouldn't have but we'd be better off.

 

[Gone Critical]

Langdon Brown Sinclair
Howe Reid Maynard
Sidebottom Treloar Aish
Fasolo White De Goey
Elliott Moore Blair

Grundy Pendles Adams

Crisp Varcoe Greenwood Smith

Emerg Marsh Ramsay Goldsack Wills

Few points

Blair is contentious and he may get tipped out if we have a full list in 2017 but on current form he is part of the 22
Scharenberg struggled for a good while at VFL level and hasnt looked at home in the little bit of AFL he got. Coming off another knee reco he has to show whether he can make the AFL level now. Not in 22 currently
Goldsack would be a good experienced player if fit, can see him in the 22
Wills can be best 22 if he continues to build like he did
Ramsay showed a lot in the AFL when available, hopefully the reco hasnt set him back too far but shows a lot of potential
Marsh has some great attributes but burns the ball. We already have enough of that. That holds him back for now
Langdon has been clear best 22 for most of his career, should start back at that level and build
Sinclair in if fit and if shows form of 2016
Elliott bit of a wild card, hope he continues to become the player we hope for.
Fas in a similar boat, if he and Elliott stay fit we are so much more potent

 

[jmac70]

Langdon Brown Sinclair
Howe Reid Maynard
Sidebottom Treloar Aish
Fasolo White De Goey
Elliott Moore Blair

Grundy Pendles Adams

Crisp Varcoe Greenwood Smith

Emerg Marsh Ramsay Goldsack Wills

Few points

Blair is contentious and he may get tipped out if we have a full list in 2017 but on current form he is part of the 22
Scharenberg struggled for a good while at VFL level and hasnt looked at home in the little bit of AFL he got. Coming off another knee reco he has to show whether he can make the AFL level now. Not in 22 currently
Goldsack would be a good experienced player if fit, can see him in the 22
Wills can be best 22 if he continues to build like he did
Ramsay showed a lot in the AFL when available, hopefully the reco hasnt set him back too far but shows a lot of potential
Marsh has some great attributes but burns the ball. We already have enough of that. That holds him back for now
Langdon has been clear best 22 for most of his career, should start back at that level and build
Sinclair in if fit and if shows form of 2016
Elliott bit of a wild card, hope he continues to become the player we hope for.
Fas in a similar boat, if he and Elliott stay fit we are so much more potent

It's refreshing to see someone only include players who are acutually on the Collingwood list.

 

[adammania9]

He isnt worth 2 firsts

Charlie Dixon was an uncontracted flakey forward who commanded Port's 1st in 2015 and 2nd in 2016 - and you're trying to tell me a certified star in Wright who is contracted isn't worth more to GCS?

 

[Matt_352]

Charlie Dixon was an uncontracted flakey forward who commanded Port's 1st in 2015 and 2nd in 2016 - and you're trying to tell me a certified star in Wright who is contracted isn't worth more to GCS?

He isnt a certified star yet

 

[Munnyball]

SEN

Maynard Reid Scharenberg
Langdon Keeffe Adams

Grundy Treloar Pendlebury
Wells* De Goey Sidebottom

Howe Moore Mayne*
Fasolo White Elliott

INT
Aish Wills Crisp Hoskin-Elliott* Smith Blair Williams Varcoe

RES

Ramsay Brown Frost
Sinclair Marsh Goldsack

Maric* Thomas Sier
Oxley Phillips Brown*

Greenwood Cox Crocker
Broomhead Cox Daicos*


OFF: Cloke Witts Swan Macaffer Toovey Goodyear Golds Gault