Kenjo
Senior List
- Dec 22, 2015
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Haven't you heard? With CS as head coach we ain't gonna win the premiership :-/
Banter 2017 - Best 22
- Thread starter Wojcinski
- Start date
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Haven't you heard? With CS as head coach we ain't gonna win the premiership :-/
- Dec 11, 2009
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- AFL Club
- Geelong
Nup.
And to top it off Cook has lost his focus, Hocking is failing, Wells is no longer an astute recruiter, the club has erred in pursuing redevelopment, and, get this, the canteen lady has been wrapping the salad rolls the wrong way!!
Dark Ages loom
Nup.
And to top it off Cook has lost his focus, Hocking is failing, Wells is no longer an astute recruiter, the club has erred in pursuing redevelopment, and, get this, the canteen lady has been wrapping the salad rolls the wrong way!!
Dark Ages loom
It reminds me of the dark ages in early 2011. The two-time premiership coach left the club and a recently retired player with no senior coaching experience took over. Ablett junior, the best player in the competition for the preceding 4 years, went to the Gold Coast. The canteen lady who had done such a great job from 2007 to 2010 left to work for Collingwood.
And despite all those obstacles (particularly the loss of the canteen lady), Geelong still won the 2011 premiership.
- Dec 11, 2009
- 29,673
- 36,836
- AFL Club
- Geelong
We're a basket case of a club though.
Ever since that canteen lady tore the Glad Wrap and left.........
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
You never say never i just think it looks very unlikely with our list changes Bartel, Enright, Caddy, Kersten, Vardy all out & Black and Tuohy in. Remember this season not sure if you call a prelim drubbing by sydney and we didnt get to play GWS or WB close to a flag please its similar to how nobody cares north made 3 prelims in a row because none of them were even close.
And if you want to win a flag your no.1 priority should always be development or your short sighted. So yes when you give away 3 first rounders in last 2 seasons have a salary cap with no space. Developing young recruited players is just as important. Look at sydneys side Callum Mills, Papley, Allir, Hewett,
All guys that started season with 0 games now in best 22.
You can throw Zac Jones and isaac heeney in as 1-3 year players. They even had x richards in with 11 games . So what your telling me is we roll out the same side while these guys improve ?
Gws i don't need to explain and the dogs just won a flag with a very young list
How about develop to win a flag not top up your list we have like 8 recruits from other clubs possibly in best 22.
Do you remember how the dogs missed the 8 2/3 years ago went back used some draft picks only 4 top 20 picks got johannisen and dalhaus off rookie list. Pretty sure they won something this year. So yes lets develop second great idea
The numerous grammatical errors in your post makes it difficult for me to understand your contribution.
I don't understand your question "So what your telling me is we roll out the same side while these guys improve?", especially since Geelong does not have X Richards / Zac Jones / Isaac Heeney on its playing list.
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
- Oct 28, 2012
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- Geelong
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Sydney also have COLA and an academy that we don't have. They really should never be used as the poster child of how to build a list. 14 clubs can't build a list the way they can.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Wrote that on lunch i was attempting to describe the development of the others teams sydney, GWS, WB who w
Grammatical errors noted i was replying to your earlier post of winning a flag first and then developing players second.
So i was attempting to use sydney as an example of how youth and development go hand in hand with good results.
And if it was not clear to you i mentioned the Mills, Papley, Hewett, allir as players with 0 games experience before season started. Heeney, Zac Jones as 1-3 year players and X richards as an inexperienced player 11 games.
You don't need to give me a backhanded comment about those guys richards, heeney, jones not being on our list everyone on big footy knows that.
I wrote it quickly on lunch sorry it didnt't flow like it should have. My point was with sydney, GWS, WB they have exposed some very talented young players so i think those sides will get better again next season with more games under their belt. And if we go in with a similar geelong side next season i cannot see as having better results than 2016. That was my " roll out the same side while these guys improve" quote i did not use properly
And this whole post was a reference to my best 22 side and how i had a preference to playing younger players in the geelong best 22.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Didn't cola get scrapped in 2014 and academies for developing talent where afl is not the no.1 sport Brisbane, Goldcoast, Sydney, i do not have a huge problem with as most players are coming from victoria, adelaide, perth. So relocating and keeping players can become more difficult.
GWS zoning may need review.
So western Bulldogs Brendan Mcartney who helped develop the list at geelong was at the bulldogs as senior coach when most of the drafting / recruiting was done. His mantra was draft and develop then look for holes in free agency.
Prelim in 2010 ( end of bulldogs run at time)
Only Boyd, Wood, murphy, Morris
Remain from that side.
3 top 10 picks and 4 in top 20
Bomtempelli (4) 2013
Stringer (5) 2012
Mcrae (6) 2012
C.Smith (17) 2011
Dunkley (25) 2015
Mclean (26) 2014
Caleb Daniel (46) 2014
Liberatore (41) 2010
Lachie Hunter (49) 2012
Dickson (57) 2011
Cordy (62) 2011
Roughead (31) 2008
Rookie draft
dalhaus (22) 2010
Johannisen (39) 2010
Joel Hamling delisted free agent
Fletcher roberts 2011 pre season draft
Trade
Boyd Griffen deal
Shane biggs (37)
Western bulldogs 27th youngest premiership side ever. Used mid range picks very well and also were in compromised drafts with GWS around that time as well. Players were given some game time to develop early.
I prefer myself the draft develop model willing to take some steps backwards to go forwards going to the draft growing your own players.
At the end of this year we will have a better understanding of how good or bad the trade periods have been for us these last few years.
But Lachie Henderson, Zach Tuohy are not first round trade targets.
Dangerfield ( obviously this deal gets done)
R.Stanley ( Pick 21)
Z.Smith pick (49&53)
S.Selwood ( Free agent)
L.Henderson ( First round (14 )
Z.Thuoy ( Future first rounder) ????
A.Black (96)
Menegola (drafted) was at freo hawks
Mitch Clark ( Delisted)
All these players come yes you get some handy utilities 1 or 2 could become A graders they are all in mid 20s your side remains competitive and you don't have the inconsistant nature of developing young players.
Your overall list development will hold or have slight improvements when you have a griup of mature players. You lose some developing pieces Kersten,Vardy because lack of opportunity that was taken by free agents.
You use no first rounders for 2 years our best players selwood, Hawkins, Taylor pushing that 28 mark where improvement is not likely. Danger will be the next captain.
Where does this leave us 3 years from now i don't want geelong to be a really struggling side on field in the near future. And drafting developing players was one of the reasons we kept ourselves competitive while continuing to be successful. Now we are in the chris scott era where free agency and trade table for mature competitive talent is king spot filling a list.
So 2016 geelong were very competitive top 4
Next season we will be a competitive top 8 side. Then we start losing the last wave our or good players selwood co and end up with a gap between our newest draftees.
We don't have that much talent sitting in the VFL right now. Then we will hear the word rebuild!
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
- Oct 28, 2012
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I think it's been phased out but they're trying to get a different allowance implemented. That said it did help them land Tippett and Franklin.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
That and 17 premiership players that played in 2009 or 2007 grand final. A brownlow medalist norm smith medalists. And he had not missed a prelim or gf in 4 years.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
It reminds me of the father son rule that favoured clubs especially geelong you have to live within the rules the afl provides. Equalization is the new flavour now.
But the father-son rule has always been able to be used by all clubs that aren't in their infancy. Whether you yield benefit from it is more a matter of luck than it is systemic bias as is the case with the academies and COLA.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Well if that is so why did they change the rules in 2015 for father son selections and implement a bidding system. Giving them a points value to keep the value of particular players more closely aligned with talent. And forcing clubs to use closest available pick if bidded on.
I was just saying those rules helped geelong then yes agreed it was lucky the era of players we had . You cannot build a list that way anymore though. The western bulldogs also had multiple father sons.
And Cola is gone.
DangerIsLove
Cancelled
- Oct 23, 2016
- 252
- 77
- AFL Club
- Geelong
You want a Best 22 I'll give it to you
B: Bews Lonergan Kolodjashnijj
HB: Thurlow Henderson Thuoy
C: Menengola J.Selwood S.Selwood
HF: PowellPepper Stanley Motlop
F: Taylor Hawkins Menzel
R: Smith Dangerfield Guthrie
I: McCarthy Blicavs Duncan Cockatoo
B: Bews Lonergan Kolodjashnijj
HB: Thurlow Henderson Thuoy
C: Menengola J.Selwood S.Selwood
HF: PowellPepper Stanley Motlop
F: Taylor Hawkins Menzel
R: Smith Dangerfield Guthrie
I: McCarthy Blicavs Duncan Cockatoo
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Powell pepper?
DangerIsLove
Cancelled
- Oct 23, 2016
- 252
- 77
- AFL Club
- Geelong
I hope we draft him reckon we should
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Pick 24 heard he might go to west coast at 12
This is the one..if we are to improve in year 2017 this is the MAN that is so important for us...
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...n/news-story/3ff899712622af24e3cab1685e6de206
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...n/news-story/3ff899712622af24e3cab1685e6de206
Selections are going to have to be bold. Hopefully they learnt some lessons from last year and showing up with the exact same group (minus two champions) is not going to get it done.
Improvement needs to come from Lang, Gregson, Kolo, Mcarthy and Cockatoo of the younger group. Then vastly better seasons from the under performing talent in Motlop, Blicavs and Duncan and the underdone Scott Selwood. Thurlow's return helps.
Team needs to be structured around finding ways to get the best out of these players, not maximizing the dominance of Dangerfield and Selwood.
Last year was a very strange season in that most of our developing players with the exception of Guthrie stalled or went backwards. Yet we improved dramatically, that tells me too much was about Dangerfield and Selwood last year.
Making a tactical tweak that deliberately reduces their influence may hurt us in the short-term.
Improvement needs to come from Lang, Gregson, Kolo, Mcarthy and Cockatoo of the younger group. Then vastly better seasons from the under performing talent in Motlop, Blicavs and Duncan and the underdone Scott Selwood. Thurlow's return helps.
Team needs to be structured around finding ways to get the best out of these players, not maximizing the dominance of Dangerfield and Selwood.
Last year was a very strange season in that most of our developing players with the exception of Guthrie stalled or went backwards. Yet we improved dramatically, that tells me too much was about Dangerfield and Selwood last year.
Making a tactical tweak that deliberately reduces their influence may hurt us in the short-term.
I see the Academies as another means of developing talent , that basically sees the cream of that talent go to those clubs allowed to have them.
The argument that they are developing talent from non afl areas is spurious to my mind , or at least coexistent with ensuring that those Northern club are not basketcases like the Bears and the Swans were at stages in their past. The zones that they draft from , and the cost of the players is just a distraction from the core issue. The continual addition of talent better than the equalisation of comp should allow them.
If we accept that all clubs have their own advanatges and own disdavantages , the disparity of distance from the main hub of afl ..ie Melb , I see reasons for them being on a constant "drip feed" of local talent , and as a consequence of that , our Northern teams developing players that are mentally centred up North from kids that would not be within the system ...more players are created for the pool, less go home ..it seems advantageous for all.
Drip feed is the key. There is no drip feed about the current system. The comparisons to Father son is like comparing Pandol to Morphine. The pain relief for them is being over prescribed , but in this case its the other clubs who will start to feel the pain . Father Son is a long way from of having a group of 100's of players to choose from , being able to develop a constant stream of talent year after year. While those Northern teams are in a state of repair , when they are out of finals contention then the advantage that an academy can give is preferable than the continual moaning about Priority Picks but to get access to the best talent from Non academy as well as also having multiple players from academy in some cases as good as R1 picks while being a strong finals team seems converse to the argument of trying to avoid go home factor. Surely the amount of talent that GWS is accessing is not drip feed, it more like stream of water from a Fire Hose.. its ingraining dissatisfaction within their list , and go home factor. New arrivals with have to be elite to have a chance to break in. I doubt GWS care very little about it atm , as long as they keep adding the cream.
GWS this year for instance , when they are coming off a PF season , will access a gun Vic kid , and then add multiple Academy kids all better than our first pick. Its seems more about team development than talent development. Just like Cola , it will change , but it will take Flags and eras of lost time for everyone else before it does.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Yeah that was long i am not really sure what point you are making apart from academies are not set up right particularly GWS.
When i was talking about father son picks i never once mentioned they were more beneficial than academies.
My point was prior to 2015 the father son rules were different without a bidding system and points for drafting players.
So i might add if you were lucky enough to have a player like tom hawkins (2006) become available a top 5 pick and be able to take him in the 3rd round of a draft is very beneficial. I have not broken down the 2006 draft but in todays rules hawk gets assigned our first selection with a bidding process.
Matthew Scarlett, Gary ablett Jnr
Thats it the whole reason i used father son rule was it allowed a club previously to have access to a player guaranteed in a certain draft slot which other clubs had 0 access too.
And with expansion clubs like gold coast, G.W.S and previously with adelaide and west coast , fremantle not 100% sure how those father son selections worked.
But with GWS and Goldcoast having 0 ability for any father sons gave established clubs yes by complete luck an advantage if things went the right way. I mean with TAC cup and scouts these kids get identified at 12 and followed all the way through the pathway programs draft camps. So it gives clubs years to plan as well and gives them an advantage.
That was my whole point not that academies were not a bigger advantage just that at a particular time the rules the afl provided were beneficial to us. Ablett Jnr, Scarlett,Hawkins within 9 years of each other does not get much better than that.
And the afl changed the rules so if it had no disadvantages to other clubs they would have left the rule alone
Prior to 2015... yes they were different FS rules but then again they have changed continually since FS was introduced for Barrassi.
Yes The Hawkins year was enough to enforce change , just like Heeney did the same in his year.
Yes we had some luck from FS.. some luck and some good judgement .. not all FS were as obvious as Hawkins. But luck has little to do with Academies. A tad of luck but they have a huge disproportionate pool of players to tag as theirs.
GAjr Scarlett Hawkins within 9 years.. id say GWS are on the way to match that and beat it. Potentially for sure , Ablett and Scarlett never had the pre draft cred of the players have accessed and continue to access.
I don't get why some people think Hawkins should be playing at CHF. He doesn't have the tank to roam up and down the ground. He is best playing deep at Full Forward, rag-dolling his opponent. The first time I saw Hawkins play, I said this guy is a Full Forward. During those seasons where we were playing in him in the ruck, I was fuming, I was telling everyone he should be playing as a deep forward. Thankfully, the coaching eventually figured that out.
We are in trouble if he get's injured. I can't see Buzza filling the FF position, neither Stanley. Only Henderson or Taylor could be our options at FF, but not with any great confidence, and it would mean shifting our backline around. We could play with a small forward line.
We are in trouble if he get's injured. I can't see Buzza filling the FF position, neither Stanley. Only Henderson or Taylor could be our options at FF, but not with any great confidence, and it would mean shifting our backline around. We could play with a small forward line.
