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There are good reasons why people think Sandilands is the be all and end all.Except we're not. Dominates hit outs, loses clearances. The big fella is certainly important but until those hit outs = clearance domination, and I'm not sure they ever will, he's not the be all, end all that most like to think. IMO.
Don't compare me to that pillock. Merely stating a fact, his hitouts don't correspond to centre clearance domination. We regularly lose centre clearances.In my opinion, you don't watch the games, if you don't see the clear advantage that Sandilands has provided his team.
Or you've got short man's disease, like SA.
Don't compare me to that pillock. Merely stating a fact, his hitouts don't correspond to centre clearance domination. We regularly lose centre clearances.
Enough with the personal insults.Struth some of you people are frustrating.
The stats are in complete contradiction to your statement.
When Sandilands plays and dominates the Hit Outs, Freo also dominate the centre clearances.
My previous post shows statistics that prove this beyond any doubt.
Please stop posting such idiotic comments that have no data to support them.
If you look at my history, I rarely if ever post personal insults.Enough with the personal insults.
I'll use your own precious stats to back up my observations: HitOuts +447, Clearances +80
That's 17% of clearances won due to those hit out wins. That's not a high percentage.
If you look at my history, I rarely if ever post personal insults.
But your post deserves it.
And now you want to make an argument that winning clearances by +80 in 11 games is not dominating.
Seriously dude, you need to learn something about football statistics and what they mean.
The stats that I see for Sandilands when he plays, makes me comfortable in saying ... there is no player currently in the AFL who has as big an influence on a games result as what Sandilands does ... and I have data to support that. So please go away and pick another Freo player to criticise.
The myopia is next level.The statistical correlation between Sandilands winning Hit Outs and Freo winning the clearances is so strong, that only an uneducated supporter could think different. The fact that you "could not give two shits about statistics" tells me that you are uneducated regarding Sandilands and worse still, unwilling to be educated.
Good luck with all your future ridiculous and totally unsupported opinions in the future.
The myopia is next level.
OK Rainman, let's have a look at some stats.
2017
Hitouts: Fremantle: 428
Hitouts: Gold Coast: 321
Ctr Clearances: Fremantle: 118
Ctr Clearances: Gold Coast: 140
Ratio of Hitout to Ctr Clearance: Fremantle: 0.27
Ratio of Hitout to Ctr Clearance: Gold Coast: 0.43 or nearly twice as high.
If Sandi was so good, and our midfield was as good as we profess it to be, we wouldn't be 22 clearances behind ******* gold coast with 107 more hit outs now would we? Or is our midfield just shithouse and Sandi is constantly let down by our spudlike AA studded, brownlow winning, record breaking, league benchmark midfield brigade?
Pillock here reporting in. #gettinginearly
I agree that Sandilands is a dominant force. He could be better though There are still instances where he palms down in front of him predictably right into the arms of an opposition player running through, or a spike for variation that lands with the HB sweeping forward at the centre bounce. Some of that's related to him, some of it to the midfield setup at the ball up.
I'd be curious to know what the hitouts to advantage is for the rucks in the comp as a percentage of total hitouts. And also the shark rate. I'm sure he's up there (for the former), but the effectiveness of the hitout is probably a clearer indication of pure ruck dominance than the clearance rate which has other influencing factors
Take the most recent game for example where we lost the clearances against Richmond 35-25, despite winning the hitouts 47-23.
Don't compare me to that pillock. Merely stating a fact, his hitouts don't correspond to centre clearance domination. We regularly lose centre clearances.
Lets hope that Ross is speaking the truth, because the way we started the season is probably closer to the way heI think what Lyon said on the couch was the best way to put it.
Looking for growth over wins (Bigger picture)
Don't compare me to that pillock. Merely stating a fact, his hitouts don't correspond to centre clearance domination. We regularly lose centre clearances.
I often see this opinion regarding Sandilands. The one along the lines of ... given Sandilands size and the number of hitouts he has, he should be doing better. But the facts are, statistically he is doing better than any other ruckman in the modern era. So that comment is like saying Josh Kennedy is an ok Full Forward ... but he's kicked 19 points this year that could have been goals if he kicked straighter.
Even though I posted earlier how in games when Sandilands has 50 or more hitouts (11 times) Freo dominates the midfield stats (ie. HitOuts +447, Clearances +80, Centre Clearances +42, Inside50s +117), people think they can pick one game to argue against it.
Year after year I hear and read AFL news about the current best ruckman. Whether it's Nic Nat, Goldstein, Gawn, Mumford, Grundy or whoever, the statistical facts are that when they come up against Sandilands, as far as ruck work goes, most of the time he beats them. Yet we somehow feel that he still deserves criticism and that he should do better because of his size. I just wish people would do some good research and then they might just appreciate just how good Sandilands is. And when I say research, you not only need to look at his HitOuts and his influence on Freo's midfield stats, but you also need to respect the impact he has on the opposition's ruckman and their midfield.
BTW, I just quickly watched the first half of the RI vs FR game, forwarding through to each of the centre bounce downs to watch those. Sandilands won virtually all of them, tapping to the advantage of Freo players, but often they were quickly tackled prior to getting a clean clearance. Taberner took 2 of the Centre Rucks and Richmond had two very clean and easy clearances.
It's ironic that you comment on selective use of stats - yet you narrow yours to specifically be games in which he has had 50 or more hitouts, and include differentials that aren't solely related to the performance of the ruckman as 'proof' of your argument. Your review of the Richmond game highlights that it's difficult to correlate clearances to ruck performance - which is the whole point I was making when i used that example.
I'm not disputing that he's a dominant ruckman statistically - and he's been consistently good over his career. But stats aren't everything, and the hitouts stat you cherry picked to prove your argument isn't the only filter through which to view a ruck. Dominating the stats doesn't magically invalidate my view that tapping down to an opposition player, or spiking it straight to a sweeping defender is a wasted opportunity. That handballing to a player under pressure or not going for goal when it's his turn to go isn't ideal. So yeah, while he's a great of the club - I do feel he could be better. Both views can be correct at the same time
Incidentally - i'm guessing that this is one of the articles that you annoyed you -
One club's ruck coach said it was difficult to assess the value of ruckmen because people tried to distil their game to statistics that were inadequate and misleading, because the intangibles of a good ruck were unquantifiable.
"What value do you put on a big bloke having presence? What value do you put on a bloke who knocks midfielders over, blocks and puts the wind up them? None of those are stats.
"The ruck stats are basically bulls--t anyway. Hitouts are the most useless statistic ever. You can only look at hitouts to advantage and even then you have to look at clearances and scores from stoppages. You can be putting it down your midfield's throat but if they fumble, get tackled or don't clear it then that is not your fault.
"We never used hitout figures, they are a complete waste of time, they are nonsense. Hitting the ball first means nothing if your team doesn't clear it.
"Hitout to advantage figures are what we look at. If the ruck can hit to your advantage it is then up to the midfielder to clear the ball. We review the games and rank the ruck hitouts for every game and I am sure all clubs do the same.
"You have to look at every one and give it a grade and then you can get an idea of whether they were any good."