List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Prospects

[Leviticus]

Thoughts on Jack Higgins? Most phantoms have him going at 10-13

He looks like a very good small forward option, very busy, very competitive, nippy and nuggety and good overhead for his height. I would not be pissed off if he lasted to 16 and we took him, although I have another preference at 16: Lachlan Fogarty.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

I’m onboard the Fogarty train. Happy with Bonar as well.

Not everyone needs a huge tank. Stringer got AA in ‘15 with a pretty average tank.

We need someone who can provide some x-factor/unpredictability in our forward line, someone who can find the goals and possibly pinch hit in the midfield.

 

[Leviticus]

I mentioned several weeks back that I would consider this guy for our first pick and that has now solidified in my mind. Versatile, unique physical attributes and composed with bail in hand all at 195cm is an exciting prospect. He would take a couple of years to physically mature and his kicking technique has a little bit of the Nick Riewoldt about it which would need to be ironed out a little but he is a great point of difference for the modern zoning style of football.
An ideal world would see us taking Ballard at 9 then Brayshaw if available, which I doubt, Constable, maybe available or Bonar at 16.

took a look at his reels. He looks a more interesting prospect to me than Constable and D Fogarty. An unusual type, a 195cm wingman, wouldn't be totally disappointed if we used #16 on him.

Val Perovic?

 

[Gollo]

I’m onboard the Fogarty train. Happy with Bonar as well.

Not everyone needs a huge tank. Stringer got AA in ‘15 with a pretty average tank.

We need someone who can provide some x-factor/unpredictability in our forward line, someone who can find the goals and possibly pinch hit in the midfield.

But he doesn't find the goals consistently. And he's not a reliable ball-winner in the midfield. And he has few one-on-one defensive attributes. People have this idea of Fogarty as an exciting, versatile prospect yet the fact is that he's yet to prove himself in any one position at all. Add to that the fact that his tank is weak and he doesn't excel skills-wise or on the burst.

 

[Gollo]

I'm also not sold on Ballard. He has this outward appearance of a player who is only really rising because he's a unique prospect as a 195cm winger, even though it's a fallacy that wingmen and outside midfielders in general need to be tall in any way. Guys who are 195cm are either made to play in key position roles or as inside midfielders. Ballard seems like he has some nice attributes, with clean ball use and versatility, but nothing that is outstanding or would really point to strong development in a role at either end of the ground. There are much more capable and natural outside midfielders that will undoubtedly be available at pick 16 and I feel like it would be inappropriate to take Ballard there just because he has height on his side.

 

[dogwatch]

I'm also not sold on Ballard. He has this outward appearance of a player who is only really rising because he's a unique prospect as a 195cm winger, even though it's a fallacy that wingmen and outside midfielders in general need to be tall in any way. Guys who are 195cm are either made to play in key position roles or as inside midfielders. Ballard seems like he has some nice attributes, with clean ball use and versatility, but nothing that is outstanding or would really point to strong development in a role at either end of the ground. There are much more capable and natural outside midfielders that will undoubtedly be available at pick 16 and I feel like it would be inappropriate to take Ballard there just because he has height on his side.

Yes that aspect worries me too. I think back nearly 10 years to the exciting prospect of Ayce Cordy who was 200cm, agile, mobile and "really good below his knees". He ended up being not terribly good at the things talls do and not very good at the things mediums do. Neither fish nor fowl. AFL career over by the age of 25.

In fact I have this nagging worry that Tim English could turn out the same but I'm hoping he just needs to fill out to become a genuine mobile ruckman - I don't care if he loses some of his agility in the process.

Rather than take a quite speculative Ballard because he is an unusual mix of attributes I want us to go with somebody who is more a standard midfielder (or if it must be a tall then a more standard KPP). If we must be a bit speculative then let's go for someone like Bonar who might scare people off because he's had an ACL problem.

How many players who simply don't fit the typical physical mould really become a great success in the modern era? (Consider players like Ayce, Hooper, etc) The only one that readily springs to mind is NicNat who had incredible athleticism for a 200cm player. Maybe Caleb would be another but we didn't have to use a high draft pick to take the risk with him.

 

[giblj]

Interesting reading that Nick Coffield has been training with Pat Lipinski over the offseason, hopefully they can start training together full time in a couple of weeks

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Interesting reading that Nick Coffield has been training with Pat Lipinski over the offseason, hopefully they can start training together full time in a couple of weeks

Both doggies supporters too

 

[Gollo]

Yes that aspect worries me too. I think back nearly 10 years to the exciting prospect of Ayce Cordy who was 200cm, agile, mobile and "really good below his knees". He ended up being not terribly good at the things talls do and not very good at the things mediums do. Neither fish nor fowl. AFL career over by the age of 25.

In fact I have this nagging worry that Tim English could turn out the same but I'm hoping he just needs to fill out to become a genuine mobile ruckman - I don't care if he loses some of his agility in the process.

Rather than take a quite speculative Ballard because he is an unusual mix of attributes I want us to go with somebody who is more a standard midfielder (or if it must be a tall then a more standard KPP). If we must be a bit speculative then let's go for someone like Bonar who might scare people off because he's had an ACL problem.

How many players who simply don't fit the typical physical mould really become a great success in the modern era? (Consider players like Ayce, Hooper, etc) The only one that readily springs to mind is NicNat who had incredible athleticism for a 200cm player. Maybe Caleb would be another but we didn't have to use a high draft pick to take the risk with him.

Agree pretty much wholeheartedly with this. It's really quite important that people have an awareness of the necessity of talls actually being able to play tall well, as the very first requirement for a 195cm+ player. Sure, you might be able to mark the ball over a couple of players on the wing but if it comes at the cost of groundwork or one-on-one play there is always going to be high bust potential.

Also why I started to cool a bit on English around draft time, and possibly the reason he fell to us at 18. Still, I think he has a higher likelihood of realising his potential than most: he is settled as a ruckman and will continue to develop his craft, he has freakishly good skills for a player of his size, he has shown a capacity for contested marking in defence and he has a height advantage over 99% of the AFL at 206cm.

 

[True Dog]

Yes that aspect worries me too. I think back nearly 10 years to the exciting prospect of Ayce Cordy who was 200cm, agile, mobile and "really good below his knees". He ended up being not terribly good at the things talls do and not very good at the things mediums do. Neither fish nor fowl. AFL career over by the age of 25.

In fact I have this nagging worry that Tim English could turn out the same but I'm hoping he just needs to fill out to become a genuine mobile ruckman - I don't care if he loses some of his agility in the process.

Rather than take a quite speculative Ballard because he is an unusual mix of attributes I want us to go with somebody who is more a standard midfielder (or if it must be a tall then a more standard KPP). If we must be a bit speculative then let's go for someone like Bonar who might scare people off because he's had an ACL problem.

How many players who simply don't fit the typical physical mould really become a great success in the modern era? (Consider players like Ayce, Hooper, etc) The only one that readily springs to mind is NicNat who had incredible athleticism for a 200cm player. Maybe Caleb would be another but we didn't have to use a high draft pick to take the risk with him.

Trust me DW, Tim English is NO Ayce Cordy.... English has mongrel and can mark above his head, two things Ayce lacked...

 

[dogwatch]

Trust me DW, Tim English is NO Ayce Cordy.... English has mongrel and can mark above his head, two things Ayce lacked...

Haha, thanks.

No I wasn't saying he was Ayce Cordy bad, just concerned that he might not reach a high enough standard as a ruckman to really find his niche. I don't see any other genuine role for him. We should find out a lot more this coming season, even if he's still playing mostly VFL.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

16 - Nathan Murphy

If only there was any chance he would slide that far in the real thing

 

[LoveDamoBarrett]

If only there was any chance he would slide that far in the real thing

Would prefer solid citizen Lachie Fogarty at 16

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Would prefer solid citizen Lachie Fogarty at 16

I'm coming around to him but man am I sick of getting outmarked all over the ground.

 

[doggies ftw]

Would prefer solid citizen Lachie Fogarty at 16

Yep I really want him now. Think he's exactly what we need to fit in alongside our new twin tower set up.

 

[VitalDread]

I'm coming around to him but man am I sick of getting outmarked all over the ground.

so he would fit in at Bulldogs?

 

[Dav1d]

I'm coming around to him but man am I sick of getting outmarked all over the ground.

Having Boyd back & Bontempelli fit for next season (touch wood) would certainly help us with this. As would the inclusions of Trengove & Crozier.

I think Roughead can bounce back, had a lot of injury interruptions. He can take a grab to, l definitely agree that we get out marked around the ground a lot but a lot went wrong this past season.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Based on absolutely nothing but a feeling - I think GWS will go early and pick Richards with #11. Nice replacement for Wilson.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Having Boyd back & Bontempelli fit for next season (touch wood) would certainly help us with this. As would the inclusions of Trengove & Crozier.

I think Roughead can bounce back, had a lot of injury interruptions. He can take a grab to, l definitely agree that we get out marked around the ground a lot but a lot went wrong this past season.

Adding a couple of key position players isn't going to stop our midfield/flanks of Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Daniel, Suckling, Hunter, Dale, Johannisen etc getting mauled in the air and in aerial contests again. It's going to remain a problem if we keep recruiting players that can't compete in that situation.

 

[Dav1d]

Adding a couple of key position players isn't going to stop our midfield/flanks of Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Daniel, Suckling, Hunter, Dale, Johannisen etc getting mauled in the air and in aerial contests again. It's going to remain a problem if we keep recruiting players that can't compete in that situation.

I personally thought Macrae can hold his own in a marking contest?
His height does help out a lot through the midfield and I would definitely prefer taller players amongst that midfield.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I personally thought Macrae can hold his own in a marking contest?
His height does help out a lot through the midfield and I would definitely prefer taller players amongst that midfield.

He's taller and not incompetent but I don't really like his body work, I wouldn't say his marking is a strength for his height.

 

[Mofra]

Trust me DW, Tim English is NO Ayce Cordy.... English has mongrel and can mark above his head, two things Ayce lacked...

English is a far, far, far better ball user than Ayce. English totally destroys the "ruckman shouldn't kick" myth.

 

[Mofra]

You know its interesting, I think we all agree that Dals skills as a recruiter have got better with experience. I wonder what are the factors he rates most highly these days? Do his picks share a common trait?

Personally, I think players should be judged on their ability when under pressure rather than what they can do under no pressure. Being super fast, or damaging with the ball, or able to take a good speccy doesnt count for much under no pressure. Its just not representative of how the player will go in the AFL where there arent many low pressure possessions. Its noise, basically.

One factor that appears to be universally common (since his full time role) - each prospect has improved markedly in their draft year.
Macrae, Bonti & McLean are the most obvious ones who bolted up the ranking - Mclean didn't even make his original TAC Cup team at the start fo his draft year.

We value rate of improvement but I wonder if that is because it implies coachability which again points to character - something a 3 minute highlights videos gives us no indication of.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Adding a couple of key position players isn't going to stop our midfield/flanks of Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Daniel, Suckling, Hunter, Dale, Johannisen etc getting mauled in the air and in aerial contests again. It's going to remain a problem if we keep recruiting players that can't compete in that situation.

Lin Jong says hi

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Lin Jong says hi

I don't personally believe he is good enough to displace any of those players.