List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Prospects

[Yojimbo]

English is a far, far, far better ball user than Ayce. English totally destroys the "ruckman shouldn't kick" myth.

Which one of his two kicks at senior AFL level convinced you of his
incredible quality by foot ?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Which one of his two kicks at senior AFL level convinced you of his
incredible quality by foot ?

The first one.

 

[Mofra]

Which one of his two kicks at senior AFL level convinced you of his
incredible quality by foot ?

What a terrible question

 

[blagodellago]

Adding a couple of key position players isn't going to stop our midfield/flanks of Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Daniel, Suckling, Hunter, Dale, Johannisen etc getting mauled in the air and in aerial contests again. It's going to remain a problem if we keep recruiting players that can't compete in that situation.

I think that JJ's aerial ability is underrated. Marks the ball at it's highest point and generally holds his own against much bigger players. In complete agreement with the rest though.

 

[giblj]

Twomey linking Naughton to St Kilda now in addition to Collingwood and Freo, good news for us


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Northernsoul74]

Twomey linking Naughton to St Kilda now in addition to Collingwood and Freo, good news for us


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I’ve noticed Twomey has also casually started suggesting Brayshaw is now likely top 4. It’s been dropped in to 2 or 3 of his articles this week.

 

[Struggle]

Twomey linking Naughton to St Kilda now in addition to Collingwood and Freo, good news for us


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Is his info usually good or os he one of those who links everyone to everyone so he can claim he got it right?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Preparing for an all-time board meltdown when Coffield is available at 9 and we don't pick him.

 

[Mofra]

I’ve noticed Twomey has also casually started suggesting Brayshaw is now likely top 4. It’s been dropped in to 2 or 3 of his articles this week.

He finished the year well and killed it at the combine. Given the question marks over every other player Brayshaw looks to be the most 'safe' of the elite picks.

 

[maddog37]

The first one.

I preferred his second one personally. It was more nang.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Preparing for an all-time board meltdown when Coffield is available at 9 and we don't pick him.

Surely we'd pick him - he's literally perfect for us.

 

[Yojimbo]

What a terrible question

It is a terrible question as footywire only credits him with one
kick and not two, my general point is let us wait at least four
years before pumping up a guy who is clearly a long term
project. Two years ago he was a 184 cm midfielder so it's
fair to presume as a midfielder he could kick is it not ?

 

[LoveDamoBarrett]

Yes Naughton popular with Freo, Collinwood and saints. Colingwood into Murphy. saints into Bonar. A few could slide to pick 9.

 

[Dry Rot]

Yes Naughton popular with Freo, Collinwood and saints. Colingwood into Murphy. saints into Bonar. A few could slide to pick 9.

And add in the possibility of Hayes and Brander going early.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Surely we'd pick him - he's literally perfect for us.

Have seen some concerns voiced about his contested ball winning and his ability to play or even pinch hit in other positions, which are both attributes we seem to value very highly in draftees - particularly early ones.

I'd pick him without hesitation but I'm not completely convinced the club would feel the same way.

 

[Mofra]

It is a terrible question as footywire only credits him with one
kick and not two, my general point is let us wait at least four
years before pumping up a guy who is clearly a long term
project. Two years ago he was a 184 cm midfielder so it's
fair to presume as a midfielder he could kick is it not ?

He wasn't sitting on his arse when he was out of the senior side last year - he was playing VFL football, and his kicking was good at that level as it was in his under 18 year.

Your post makes no sense on a draft board where we assess a player's likely output at AFL level by their u18 performances. By your logic, we should just throw darts. Mentioning someone having a good kick isn't "pumping up a guy", it's an observation shared by virtually everyone who has watched him.

 

[hatescaptcha]

I'm now gunning for a Coffield/Bonar double. Wishful thinking that Bonar will slide to #16 but not totally out of the question.

Also like Murphy but seems likely now to be the late bolter into the Top 8.

 

[goodcop badcop]

Have seen some concerns voiced about his contested ball winning and his ability to play or even pinch hit in other positions, which are both attributes we seem to value very highly in draftees - particularly early ones.

I'd pick him without hesitation but I'm not completely convinced the club would feel the same way.

Yeah I've always had doubts he would go top 10 for this reason. His all round physical game is lacking a bit and it's very noticeable when in the midfield. Saw him get thrashed by the Brayshaw boys towards the end of the season when he was playing on ball. He looks so much more comfortable behind the ball.

I hope we still go for him as well. The guy is a gun off half back and can play tall or small.

 

[Yojimbo]

He wasn't sitting on his arse when he was out of the senior side last year - he was playing VFL football, and his kicking was good at that level as it was in his under 18 year.

Your post makes no sense on a draft board where we assess a player's likely output at AFL level by their u18 performances. By your logic, we should just throw darts. Mentioning someone having a good kick isn't "pumping up a guy", it's an observation shared by virtually everyone who has watched him.

You have gone off tangent a little, it may be all the pressure of
doing your bottom fifty. In Tim English draft year he played his
football with the same club as Darcy Cameron who was their
number one ruck and was drafted as a mature aged ruck by
the Swans around pick 50, English played one senior WAFL
game several in the seconds and a few in the colts before he
was too old as he was drafted as a nineteen year old. The year
before he was a 184 cm mid who had a massive growth spurt.
It is clear to me we drafted him based on what he could be
more than what he was in his not to distant past, an average
mid.

 

[Mofra]

You have gone off tangent a little, it may be all the pressure of
doing your bottom fifty. In Tim English draft year he played his
football with the same club as Darcy Cameron who was their
number one ruck and was drafted as a mature aged ruck by
the Swans around pick 50, English played one senior WAFL
game several in the seconds and a few in the colts before he
was too old as he was drafted as a nineteen year old. The year
before he was a 184 cm mid who had a massive growth spurt.
It is clear to me we drafted him based on what he could be
more than what he was in his not to distant past, an average
mid.

Snidey ad hominems aside, you're now saying we drafted English to be the 206cm ruck he is, and not the 184cm midfielder he was as a 16-17 year old?
Good. I'd rather draft a player on what they will be, not what they were two years ago.

How does that support the concept that we cannot assess a player's kicking skill if they haven't done it enough at AFL level, as you inferred in your previous post?

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Would we be looking at guys like west and darcy coming through over the next few years and possibly use this draft to draft for needs?

Yes heaps can happen with young kids developing, but we would have as good an idea on them as players and type of players they might be. So do we factor them into our future plans of a list build? Or do we just see them as a bonus if they come on ?

 

[dogwatch]

Would we be looking at guys like west and darcy coming through over the next few years and possibly use this draft to draft for needs?

Yes heaps can happen with young kids developing, but we would have as good an idea on them as players and type of players they might be. So do we factor them into our future plans of a list build? Or do we just see them as a bonus if they come on ?

Interesting question. I'd be staggered if they didn't already have an eye on the production line of father-sons, but as you say. very few of them are bankable.

The idea that (say) Rhylee West is a gun inside midfielder so we should ignore those types at this year's draft is fraught with risk. What if he breaks down and can't play footy any more? What if he has already peaked and lots of others go past him in his draft year? What if he (or more likely Sam Darcy) decides he likes basketball better ... or cricket? Do we then ignore the "best available" in this year's draft to reach for (say) a dynamic small forward eg Jack Higgins?

Another important factor is whether or not the club is in a premiership window. I think 2016 showed we demonstrably are in the window, 2017 results notwithstanding. So ignoring today's needs - by looking a year or two down the track at someone who might meet them if they turn out as expected - could cost the club that key piece that was required to win another flag.

There is a real danger of outsmarting yourself if you rely too much on future years' F/S options. Much better to take each draft as it comes. Then if the F/S turns out OK it's a bonus. If not, nothing has been sacrificed.

The only time it should come into calculations is if there are several evenly rated players of different types. Then you might look down the track a bit at the Darcys and the Wests to help you decide which of the equally rated players to go for. To be honest I doubt Dalrymple would need that sort of help in making a decision.

 

[goodcop badcop]

Would we be looking at guys like west and darcy coming through over the next few years and possibly use this draft to draft for needs?

Yes heaps can happen with young kids developing, but we would have as good an idea on them as players and type of players they might be. So do we factor them into our future plans of a list build? Or do we just see them as a bonus if they come on ?

I can't see us planning for Darcy yet, he's another 4 years away. A great deal can change from U16 level, I've seen a fair few guns from that level go undrafted.

I think we would plan for next year's draft certainly, so West and Kumis would be in our thinking. We should have a fair idea on both those guys now. You probably can't make great plans though, things can even change a fair bit even in a year.

 

[doggies ftw]

Adding a couple of key position players isn't going to stop our midfield/flanks of Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Daniel, Suckling, Hunter, Dale, Johannisen etc getting mauled in the air and in aerial contests again. It's going to remain a problem if we keep recruiting players that can't compete in that situation.

Macrae, Dale and JJ are fantastic in the air relative to their positions (Macrae only started to add that to his game this year and I'm not sure many on this board have caught on yet. Genuinely has very good hands now IMO). Dahls small but more than holds his own, even Hunters not too bad for a flanker. Let's hope Sucklings not even in the team.

I agree our contested markings not great overall but I'm not sure those guys are the problem, reckon it's got more to do with our talls (key defenders excluded) being ridiculously poor for the most part. Jesse out and Crozier/Schache in is a huge upgrade up forward. Trengove, Adams/Rough/Boyd all fit and firing. Picken, Bont, Wood. There's no reason marking shouldn't be a massive strength of ours next season tbh

 

[Yojimbo]

Snidey ad hominems aside, you're now saying we drafted English to be the 206cm ruck he is, and not the 184cm midfielder he was as a 16-17 year old?
Good. I'd rather draft a player on what they will be, not what they were two years ago.

How does that support the concept that we cannot assess a player's kicking skill if they haven't done it enough at AFL level, as you inferred in your previous post?

Don't use big words, and i am loving your bottom fifty. I think of
English like a butterfly just emerging from the cocoon at the
moment at AFL level he has something like 2 Kicks and 13 Hand
Balls and about 5.5 Hit Outs a game all i am saying is that those
stats are not reflective as yet of what he can become in the
future. I think his carry over skills from his mid days will be very
interesting to watch after his growth spurt and weight gain to
see how many of those attributes persist.