List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Prospects

[JAMES_B_101]

Yes, he acted as his teams midfield coach during his recovery.
Has Bonar not done his knee twice ?

Did it once, surgery failed so technically did it again but only injured it once.

 

[Gollo]

If you mean winning the ball outside and inside he does that. He finds the ball everywhere he goes wherever as a forward, defender or as a midfielder. He might not be super quick but he spreads well.

If you want to attack the way Constable moves around the ground then you'll be attacking the best player in our team imo.

I see him being like an inside version of Macrae, getting a lot of the pill and working forward to hit the scoreboard.

If we manage a trade like the one I mentioned before for Schache (given we are interested) and end up with either 18/19 for 11 and a later pick then that pick would be much better for one of Murphy/Bailey/Richards. 9 is too early.

You also need to look really closely at the individual things Constable does well. His hands out of a contest are reminiscent of guys like Macrae and Bontempelli, and he has overhead awareness that not many midfielders have. Excellent tackling technique. Runs to the right spots to win the football, which is a crucial innate skill that many neither-here-nor-there types don't have.

I still don't understand the criticism that he is slow. He is by no means slow to the point where it is a weakness of his. He is just 'not quick' - his speed is fine, average, but not poor. Fans seem to always crave the big, explosive contested ball-winner, but the reality is that Dangerfields, Martins and Judds are anomalies, and generally draft prospects who are strong and quick are way overrated because everyone wants them to be that player - think Petruccelle. Supposedly, his contested ball-winning is his greatest strength alongside his speed, but his production is consistently low in the midfield because he is not suited to being a ball-winner. He's been played almost exclusively in outside roles because that's where he's more suited, and people are now starting to realise that he isn't as damaging a player as he projected to be. Constable may not be super explosive, but that isn't a prerequisite for being a high-level inside midfielder - in fact, the two attributes are largely exclusive.

His spread from inside to outside, as Dannnnnn focuses on, is excellent. His 40+ metre kicking skills are a great strength of his and he has the composure to find space to deliver from the contest cleanly. He's not a sole inside ball-winner - he runs to width, can push behind the ball, can play man defence and can double back form deep forward as a leadup target. He has natural versatility that he utilises all game long which will be of great value to him in an AFL environment.

 

[doggies ftw]

Didn't Lever?

Yeah he did from memory, Menzel too although he had LARS. That's all I can think of really

I'm guessing without the knee hed be a top 3 pick? If so and he's there at 9 and were happy enough with the knee I reckon you have to take the chance. Our list is in great shape, itd be shit but not the end of the world if it busts but if it works out it would be absolutely huge to add another top top end talent. Even more so if we've got pick 11 too. We've shown were happy to do it before too with picking Stringer. I'm right on board!

 

[Gollo]

I feel like Bonar is the answer to all your questions, just no one is ready to accept it as an answer yet. Who has pace and size to burst out of congestion? Who has clean hands in tight? Who has versatility to play every position on the ground? Who has elite agility? Who can take contested marks and provide manic tackle pressure, and tackle hard? Bonar, Bonar, Bonar, Bonar, Bonar. Once you see past the knee being an issue, you've found your man. After all he only did it once. The second time was due to a poor surgical procedure. Ask me a question that I won't answer with Bonar I dare you.

The knee is not the only issue, in fact, it's not even the greatest factor. It's production. He hasn't yet shown consistent strong production at all this season, playing up forward or in the midfield. To me, his future position is absolutely as a midfielder. The contested ball-winning he showed in the All-Stars game was really exciting, and a glimpse into his future potential. His incredible athletic attributes are his real X-factor, but that fact is that taking Bonar is a really big risk as you're taking someone who is yet to show that they can impact the game continually throughout the match, with or without the ball, in the contest or out of the contest. Bonar is one of the very few guys who I would feel comfortable taking without sustained strong production in his draft year, but I still don't feel that he is as much of a sure thing as some make him out to be.

 

[JAMES_B_101]

The knee is not the only issue, in fact, it's not even the greatest factor. It's production. He hasn't yet shown consistent strong production at all this season, playing up forward or in the midfield. To me, his future position is absolutely as a midfielder. The contested ball-winning he showed in the All-Stars game was really exciting, and a glimpse into his future potential. His incredible athletic attributes are his real X-factor, but that fact is that taking Bonar is a really big risk as you're taking someone who is yet to show that they can impact the game continually throughout the match, with or without the ball, in the contest or out of the contest. Bonar is one of the very few guys who I would feel comfortable taking without sustained strong production in his draft year, but I still don't feel that he is as much of a sure thing as some make him out to be.

It's hard to find your form after 2 years or of the game, expecting consistent production from such a small sample size of games is ridiculous. I think his form improved and peaked in the all stars game where he got more midfield rotations and showed what he could be at AFL level.

 

[Gollo]

It's hard to find your form after 2 years or of the game, expecting consistent production from such a small sample size of games is ridiculous. I think his form improved and peaked in the all stars game where he got more midfield rotations and showed what he could be at AFL level.

I did not say that I expected consistent production. I didn't know who Bonar was until he started getting a bit of press for his recovery from his knee injuries - I wasn't expecting anything from him. I'm not saying that he in any way underperformed, merely that his production was not continually excellent. That's a fact, and I agree that his recovery from injury would have been a factor in that. This, however, doesn't change the other fact that taking draftees off the back of little consistent production is very risky, and it's the main concern that we should be holding when discussing Bonar.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I did not say that I expected consistent production. I didn't know who Bonar was until he started getting a bit of press for his recovery from his knee injuries - I wasn't expecting anything from him. I'm not saying that he in any way underperformed, merely that his production was not continually excellent. That's a fact, and I agree that his recovery from injury would have been a factor in that. This, however, doesn't change the other fact that taking draftees off the back of little consistent production is very risky, and it's the main concern that we should be holding when discussing Bonar.

From what I've read, at u16 level he was seen as one of the best and displayed consistent output. I know it doesn't always translate to u18 level, but given he still has his athleticism, I think there's a good chance his output would be similar to his u16 level if he was fully fit.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

> Collingwood heavily into Coffield at 6
> Dogs get pick 4 (from North)
> Dogs pick Coffield
> Coffield becomes best player from the draft
> Collingwood fans cry how he should have been theirs

Sound familiar?

 

[Gollo]

From what I've read, at u16 level he was seen as one of the best and displayed consistent output. I know it doesn't always translate to u18 level, but given he still has his athleticism, I think there's a good chance his output would be similar to his u16 level if he was fully fit.

I have heard reports that he was touted as a top 5 prospect back at U16 level, and I don't dispute that. In fact, he's one of the highest rated prospects among his peers. I still feel that it's a general necessity for all prospects to show some form of strong production at U18 level, and while I am most confident in Bonar of making the grade without this trait as I have been in a long time, I still approach him with caution. Feel he wouldn't be the best prospect at 9, but he would be up there.

 

[Gollo]

> Collingwood heavily into Coffield
> Dogs get pick 4 from North
> Dogs pick Coffield
> Coffield becomes best player from the draft
> Collingwood fans cry how he should have been theirs

Sound familiar?

That would be something special.

 

[Mofra]

The knee is not the only issue, in fact, it's not even the greatest factor. It's production. He hasn't yet shown consistent strong production at all this season, playing up forward or in the midfield. To me, his future position is absolutely as a midfielder. The contested ball-winning he showed in the All-Stars game was really exciting, and a glimpse into his future potential. His incredible athletic attributes are his real X-factor, but that fact is that taking Bonar is a really big risk as you're taking someone who is yet to show that they can impact the game continually throughout the match, with or without the ball, in the contest or out of the contest. Bonar is one of the very few guys who I would feel comfortable taking without sustained strong production in his draft year, but I still don't feel that he is as much of a sure thing as some make him out to be.

Bonti didn't have consistent production either from memory, although we are notorious for picking players who rapidly improve from start to finish in the u18 year (e.g. Bont, Macrae, McLean) and I haven't tracked Bonar's start to his final games.

 

[Wizard17]

Bonti didn't have consistent production either from memory, although we are notorious for picking players who rapidly improve from start to finish in the u18 year (e.g. Bont, Macrae, McLean) and I haven't tracked Bonar's start to his final games.

Fairly quiet in his final games imo. Some flashes but nothing outstanding.

Guys that had the good finals where Miers (GF FTW), the Brayshaws, Amartey (was big in all their finals apart from that last kick, poor bugger), Owens, Jarnestrom, Parish, LDU, Jaska, Floyd, Clavarino and Constable (2 goals & 20+ touches in a GF on one leg lol).

Oh and Houlahan, Crowden, Rowe and Ballard in the SANFL U18's GF.

 

[JAMES_B_101]

I have heard reports that he was touted as a top 5 prospect back at U16 level, and I don't dispute that. In fact, he's one of the highest rated prospects among his peers. I still feel that it's a general necessity for all prospects to show some form of strong production at U18 level, and while I am most confident in Bonar of making the grade without this trait as I have been in a long time, I still approach him with caution. Feel he wouldn't be the best prospect at 9, but he would be up there.

Well I completely disagree, some players just can't show production in their top age year due to injury, some don't even play at all. Witherden slid and looks like a gun and was picked off u17 form alone. There have been cases (Kavanaugh) where players thay haven't played in their top age year have failed but I put that down to clubs not doing their diligence properly. You should still be able to identify red flags with these players, as well as traits that translate well to the next level. If the player fails, it isn't beuse they didn't show much as a top ager and saying that a lack of production is a 'trait' isn't fair. Can't really do any training to fix this 'trait' in some cases. Just fortunate we've been able to get a look at Bonar at all to be honest. I could have him rated top 3 and given him a pass mark for the season just by playing footy at all.

 

[Gollo]

Well I completely disagree, some players just can't show production in their top age year due to injury, some don't even play at all. Witherden slid and looks like a gun and was picked off u17 form alone. There have been cases (Kavanaugh) where players thay haven't played in their top age year have failed but I put that down to clubs not doing their diligence properly. You should still be able to identify red flags with these players, as well as traits that translate well to the next level. If the player fails, it isn't beuse they didn't show much as a top ager and saying that a lack of production is a 'trait' isn't fair. Can't really do any training to fix this 'trait' in some cases. Just fortunate we've been able to get a look at Bonar at all to be honest. I could have him rated top 3 and given him a pass mark for the season just by playing footy at all.

Witherden is not a case I am referring to. In fact, you're completely misinterpreting my point (I assumed people would naturally disregard players with injuries from their entire U18 years from the discussion). Players who don't show impressive consistent production whatsoever in their U18 year tend not to have either; a) the ability to adapt well to an AFL environment or b) a high ceiling. Think Darcy Fogarty, Jarrod Berry, Harry McKay. I don't expect any of these guys to become really high level players. It is incredibly rare that you see players drafted off the back of a year of inconsistent production go on to become high level players in an AFL environment.

You have brought in a point about injuries which is largely irrelevant to what I am discussing. I merely acknowledged earlier that Bonar had experienced injuries - it was external to my intended point. Everyone acknowledges that drafting players who do not play at all during their top-age year is risky - it's exactly why Witherden was not taken top 10. It's risky simply because you aren't able to see whether they sink or swim as an U18. When players play for an extended period of time at a high-level U18 standard, you are able to judge them regardless of their injury. This is the category Bonar falls under. Leave his injury history out of it. He's not suffering from any long-lasting effects from his knee rehabilitation now. He's been playing since before August. In that time, he simply hasn't shown strong enough production to be someone you could pick with confidence. It's not that he has underperformed, it's just that it hasn't really been there. His best game, by far, was the All-Stars match, when he showed real glimpses of his contested ball-winning prowess, but that's about it.

I have admitted many times that Bonar is the prospect who I have been most confident in making the grade for a long time, whose production has been average as an U18. His contested ball-winning potential combined with his general skills and athleticism should hold him in good stead in an AFL club but his injury history doesn't mask the fact that taking anyone who has not reached any real level of consistently impressive production is not a certainty at all. I have made this point several times now.

 

[VitalDread]

Mason De Wit is someone I would look at for a rookie spot

 

[JAMES_B_101]

Witherden is not a case I am referring to. In fact, you're completely misinterpreting my point (I assumed people would naturally disregard players with injuries from their entire U18 years from the discussion). Players who don't show impressive consistent production whatsoever in their U18 year tend not to have either; a) the ability to adapt well to an AFL environment or b) a high ceiling. Think Darcy Fogarty, Jarrod Berry, Harry McKay. I don't expect any of these guys to become really high level players. It is incredibly rare that you see players drafted off the back of a year of inconsistent production go on to become high level players in an AFL environment.

You have brought in a point about injuries which is largely irrelevant to what I am discussing. I merely acknowledged earlier that Bonar had experienced injuries - it was external to my intended point. Everyone acknowledges that drafting players who do not play at all during their top-age year is risky - it's exactly why Witherden was not taken top 10. It's risky simply because you aren't able to see whether they sink or swim as an U18. When players play for an extended period of time at a high-level U18 standard, you are able to judge them regardless of their injury. This is the category Bonar falls under. Leave his injury history out of it. He's not suffering from any long-lasting effects from his knee rehabilitation now. He's been playing since before August. In that time, he simply hasn't shown strong enough production to be someone you could pick with confidence. It's not that he has underperformed, it's just that it hasn't really been there. His best game, by far, was the All-Stars match, when he showed real glimpses of his contested ball-winning prowess, but that's about it.

I have admitted many times that Bonar is the prospect who I have been most confident in making the grade for a long time, whose production has been average as an U18. His contested ball-winning potential combined with his general skills and athleticism should hold him in good stead in an AFL club but his injury history doesn't mask the fact that taking anyone who has not reached any real level of consistently impressive production is not a certainty at all. I have made this point several times now.

I still think it needs to be looked at case by case, because there are players like Bonar who have been held back/managed upon return from injury. One thing we don't often get to look at in AFL footy is production per minute, the best available indicator of productivity. It is too hard to objectively say a player hasn't shown they are capable of being productive otherwise. I know Bonar was on restricted playing time in August and then mostly played forward until his last game. For this reason, a recruiter would have to look at expected production per minute for position. If this matched expectation then it shouldn't be looked at as a cause for concern. I do agree that Fogarty's lack of production this season is a concern because he was given ample opportunity but there is every chance his production per minute was limited due to an injury. The reason I broughy up injury is that the players who you have mentioned have shown a lack of productivity happen to be players that have been playing injured/returning from injury. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Even if it wasn't your intended point it is still relevant. I agree that it is concerning if we pick a player who has been injury free and shown a lack of production. I would hate for us to draft the next Gary Rohan. You'd look like a genius if you pick up Bonar after averaging 15 touches playing 60% TOG per game primarily fwd and he steps into the AFL and averages 22-25 touches as a mid in 80% TOG per game.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I thought this was an interesting listen about the SA prospects.
https://omny.fm/shows/trade-radio/brenton-phillips-on-nab-afl-trade-radio

I really am intrigued by which SA boy we could take this year since we usually do take at least one every year.

Interesting he sees Fogarty more as a backman rather then a forward. His champs game playing as back was by far his best game, so I can sort of see why. And it was kinda funny hearing Houlahan out rucking a 197 ruck to help them win them the game.

I liked his comments on Andrew McPherson who I think would be a good fit for us. I'm a fan of what he did last year, he's had a terrible run of injuries this year so people probably don't know a lot about. He's a good user of the ball off half back and possesses some speed. Can play inside the contest as well. Also a top character by the sounds of that interview, so I can see us being very interested in him.

 

[Kony Abbott]

I feel like Bonar is the answer to all your questions, just no one is ready to accept it as an answer yet. Who has pace and size to burst out of congestion? Who has clean hands in tight? Who has versatility to play every position on the ground? Who has elite agility? Who can take contested marks and provide manic tackle pressure, and tackle hard? Bonar, Bonar, Bonar, Bonar, Bonar. Once you see past the knee being an issue, you've found your man. After all he only did it once. The second time was due to a poor surgical procedure. Ask me a question that I won't answer with Bonar I dare you.

Well you've convinced me.

I just think the risk vs reward with him is worth a punt, how many times have top rated talents slid because teams have been spooked by an injury? Lever, J.Selwood, Stringer.
I wouldn't mind the club being bold and it not paying off, in such an even competition we're going to increasingly rely on having a few game-breakers to win the close ones I feel.

 

[Mofra]

Well you've convinced me.

I just think the risk vs reward with him is worth a punt, how many times have top rated talents slid because teams have been spooked by an injury? Lever, J.Selwood, Stringer.

Add Burton to the list too.

 

[JAMES_B_101]

Add Burton to the list too.

And Hawthorn is just scratching the surface with Burton. Has barely been used forward and he thinks he can play midfield too.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Any update on the father sons?

 

[Wizard17]

WITH the 2017 National AFL Draft just 44 days away, the 2018 draft crop’s early shining lights have been named in Level Two of the 2017-18 NAB AFL Academy Squad.

Among those named are some father-son prospects in Nick Blakey, Bailey Scott and Rhyley West who were among 25 players to rejoin the Academy after being a part of its Level One program over the past 12 months. Potential number one picks including South Australia’s Jack Lukosius and Izak Rankine, twin towers Ben and Max King and Geelong Falcons’ silky youngster Sam Walsh lead what is predicted to be a very strong draft.

Seven players have joined the Academy for the first time with Geelong Falcons’ Edward McHenry, Oakleigh Chargers’ Isaac Quaynor, Sandringham Dragons’ Bailey Smith, Calder Cannons’ Curtis Taylor, Northern Territory’s Matt Green, Dandenong Stingrays’ pair Riley Bowman and Bailey Williams all receiving scholarships after impressive performances this season.

The AFL Academy squad will be under the tutelage of head coach Luke Power and assistant coaches Brad Johnson, Peter Sumich and Brent Harvey. They will take part in a series of AFL football and personal development camps in both Australia and overseas with the first camp to take place in Darwin in November, before the academy travel to the United States in January for a high performance training camp.

The 2017-18 NAB AFL Academy Squad

Level Two

NSW/ACT: Nick Blakey (Swans Academy), Matthew Walker (Giants Academy)

Queensland: Bailey Scott (Suns Academy)

South Australia: Jackson Hately (Central District), Jack Lukosius (Woodville – West Torrens), Hugo Munn (Sturt), Izak Rankine (West Adelaide), Connor Rozee (North Adelaide), Luke Valente (Norwood)

Vic Country: Zane Barzen (Murray Bushrangers), Riley Bowman (Dandenong Stingrays), Jye Caldwell (Bendigo Pioneers), Sam Fletcher (Dandenong Stingrays), Hudson Garoni (Murray Bushrangers), Edward McHenry (Geelong Falcons), Sam Walsh (Geelong Falcons), Bailey Williams (Dandenong Stingrays).

Vic Metro: Jack Bytel (Calder Cannons), Buku Khamis (Western Jets), Ben King (Sandringham Dragons), Max King (Sandringham Dragons), Isaac Quaynor (Oakleigh Chargers), Bailey Smith (Sandringham Dragons), Curtis Taylor (Calder Cannons), Rhylee West (Calder Cannons).

Western Australia: Jason Carter (Claremont), Tom Joyce (East Fremantle) Ian Hill (Perth).

Northern Territory: Matt Green (Sporties Spitfires), Michael Mummery (Nightcliff).

Tasmania: Chayce Jones (Launceston), Tarryn Thomas (North Launceston).

 

[Wizard17]

From the State Combine. Can't find any other results atm

 

[Sharkey66]

From the State Combine. Can't find any other results atm

Does anyone know why we have the state combines at all?
I mean why not just test all the kids that are state combine eligible at the national testing. Seems an unnecessary double up to me.

 

[dogzrule]

What are our claims on Buku Khamis if he is on our academy list, is it similar to father son bidding ?

Used to watch Jack Bytel in U10/12/14 at Marby lions he was a standout then hope he follows in the footsteps of Touk Miller and Rory Atkins


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