2017 Draft thread

[Brett C]

Because they are kids, playing against men. They're 4 years away from having the body, core strength, and required number of preseasons under them, to show what they can do at an AFL level.

You're talking like you expect every kid to come as a finished product and impact straight away. Kids like SPP or Oliver are rare each draft. There's reasons why a kid like SPP got drafted where he did, has some elite traits, but also some genuine flaws.

I might not know much about the game, but I've been an avid draft follower for the past 4 years. It's what I do all year long. Last years draft had a lot of fast kids. Some didn't fit our recruiting teams focus, two got drafted before our first pick, a lot got drafted between our first pick and second pick. And two were drafted between our second and third pick.

Our focus at last years draft, players with elite disposal by foot with as complete a game as possible, McCluggage & Witherden. An inside mid to win the contested ball, Berry, and outside speed with very good disposal by foot, Cox. Then we added Allison who has elite speed, but the one knock on his game was his short kicking and propensity to spray his long kicks.

You’re bringing logic into the arguement which will never win again a zealot.

 

[22Lions22]

You’re bringing logic into the arguement which will never win again a zealot.

And stating the fact that we have the slowest list isn't logical?

Disagree!

 

[Brett C]

Lets not change the subject,

18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"

Hahaha,

Wake up we haven't been served well by our professionals employed!

i completely understand you’re challenged but who out of these players would you have drafted? These are the top 10 for the 20m sprint at the combine. Not many superstars on the list are there? In fact you’d say none have been more than serviceable players
rankscore (sec) nameyear
12.75Joel Wilkinson2010
22.78Brad Harvey2010
2.78Jonathon Marsh2013
42.79Danyle Pearce2004
52.80Ashley Smith2008
62.81Marvin Baynham2014
2.81Nathan Batley2010
2.81Adam Saad2012
92.82Jack Watts2008
2.82Nathan Freeman2013
2.82Luke Livingston2000

 

[Nunez]

i completely understand you’re challenged but who out of these players would you have drafted? These are the top 10 for the 20m sprint at the combine. Not many superstars on the list are there? In fact you’d say none have been more than serviceable players
rankscore (sec) nameyear
12.75Joel Wilkinson2010
22.78Brad Harvey2010
2.78Jonathon Marsh2013
42.79Danyle Pearce2004
52.80Ashley Smith2008
62.81Marvin Baynham2014
2.81Nathan Batley2010
2.81Adam Saad2012
92.82Jack Watts2008
2.82Nathan Freeman2013
2.82Luke Livingston2000

18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"

 

[Quigley]

1st pick,

Best ball winning inside mid available, always every year.
Speed and agility secondary consideration at 1st pick only.

Later Picks quickest and most agile available every year no exceptions.
We have coaches to coach skill if they can't coach skill they must go.

Don't have the time to put into recruiting research as our paid professionals, so I would only be guessing.

I agree with you that generally over Canole's time with the Lions he has not done well enough and I am frustrated that even known duds like Clayton at the GC who has consistently screwed up for years and years still get jobs because it is such a closed shop.

Now I do not agree that pace has not been addressed in recent drafts. There has been a concerted effort I think to bring more pace into the side. It was obvious that we lacked leg speed and there has been an effort to redress the balance. Personally though I think that there needs to be a balance in all things. Not every player needs to be a Olympic athlete. We need the pace but similarly we need skill, height, agility, vision, endurance, inside ball winning, marking, clean hands, tenacity and other features and rarely are they all wrapped up into one package especially when you are picking after about pick 5. For a significant period in the 00s there was an over focus on drafting athletes with their actual football ability coming a distant second. This ended up in disaster and would again if we adopted your single minded vision imo.

When Fagan came onboard it seemed to me that he identified that we really lacked skill and I really liked that last year that seemed to be the focus. Getting guys in who can hit targets is a huge feature of the current game. The identified lack of pace was also seemingly address with the likes of Allison and Cox being very quick and all of the picks being average to above average in pace.

I would hope that Canole is under pressure because I agree that over the course of his employment he has not done particularly well. I have liked his picks recently and hope that continues but I do not do this for a living and ultimately if we cannot start winning with the talent he is picking he needs to go. It should not be complicated.

 

[Brett C]

And stating the fact that we have the slowest list isn't logical?

Disagree!

I will actually disagree. Do you have evidence our list is the slowest in the comp? Being the fastest side doesn’t win you the game otherwise GWS would never lose.
Bottom sides look slower because of lesser skill levels, fitness along with running patterns and a myriad of other things. Hawthorn were far from the fastest team when they won the comp and I bet if you go through the last 20 years you could say the same.

 

[Brett C]

18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"
18th 15-100+ scores against"

Not sure what your point is Nunez?

 

[a mayes ing]

And stating the fact that we have the slowest list isn't logical?

Disagree!

You keep sayign we have the slowest list. We dont, we have a fair few players that are quite quick actually. It has already been pointed out to you a few times.

 

[Quigley]

On 22Lions22's comments on Berry and McCluggage.

I note Berry has a 20m time of 3 flat which is plenty quick enough. He played mostly off a back flank last year and became an inside mid for us this year. I thought he did exceptionally well in that role in senior company.

McCluggage didn't test last year but from memory his times were about the same. The biggest issue for him is to build some size and strength. He has pace enough to compete.

I think you will find that running guys like Allison, Cox and Taylor on the wings and replacing Rocky and his 3.24 20m time with someone like Christensen and suddenly we are going to look like a quick side. Not everyone needs to be quick but if we have a good scattering of them around suddenly we look quick. Often being quick between the ears counts for a lot more anyway.

 

[jackess]

I'm not sure top teams like the Crows, GWS and Geelong would be much quicker.

 

[Quigley]

Empirically we are far from the slowest team in the competition too for what it is worth. Sydney, West Coast and Richmond are slower teams amongst the finalists.

 

[Fatcat08]

Moved on.

Don't see the need for your nose to be stuck in.

However to be clear (as it was already) this recruiting team don't deserve loyalty let alone blind loyalty.

This recruiting team performance needs a review and a commitment to constant improvement.

First step seeing things how they are, finished 18th 15-100+ scores against and list that is the slowest in the league.

Improvement required!

You are literally trying to create an argument that no-one is making. It's getting tiresome

 

[22Lions22]

I will actually disagree. Do you have evidence our list is the slowest in the comp? Being the fastest side doesn’t win you the game otherwise GWS would never lose.
Bottom sides look slower because of lesser skill levels, fitness along with running patterns and a myriad of other things. Hawthorn were far from the fastest team when they won the comp and I bet if you go through the last 20 years you could say the same.

I'd swop with GWS in a heart beat.

 

[22Lions22]

You are literally trying to create an argument that no-one is making. It's getting tiresome

Old conversation that, both have moved on.

 

[Nunez]

Not sure what your point is Nunez?

I was making a subtle quip at the poster of the day.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

You are literally trying to create an argument that no-one is making. It's getting tiresome

But not slowly tiresome, quickly so.

 

[a mayes ing]

I'd swop with GWS in a heart beat.

wow. It kinda helps that they have 4/5 x the amount of top 10 draft picks than us. It's like you are comparing apples with oranges

 

[22Lions22]

On 22Lions22's comments on Berry and McCluggage.

I note Berry has a 20m time of 3 flat which is plenty quick enough. He played mostly off a back flank last year and became an inside mid for us this year. I thought he did exceptionally well in that role in senior company.

McCluggage didn't test last year but from memory his times were about the same. The biggest issue for him is to build some size and strength. He has pace enough to compete.

I think you will find that running guys like Allison, Cox and Taylor on the wings and replacing Rocky and his 3.24 20m time with someone like Christensen and suddenly we are going to look like a quick side. Not everyone needs to be quick but if we have a good scattering of them around suddenly we look quick. Often being quick between the ears counts for a lot more anyway.

"Often being quick between the ears counts for a lot more anyway."

Correct thats why I'd always take best ball winner (new Blacky)with 1st pick in all drafts.

It's still the most important thing, winning the ball!

 

[22Lions22]

But not slowly tiresome, quickly so.

Some have strange reactions to having their eyes openned.

 

[a mayes ing]

"Often being quick between the ears counts for a lot more anyway."

Correct thats why I'd always take best ball winner (new Blacky)with 1st pick in all drafts.

It's still the most important thing, winning the ball!

What about Lance Franklin, he was high up in the draft iirc, you would still stake a ball winning mid over him?

 

[22Lions22]

Empirically we are far from the slowest team in the competition too for what it is worth. Sydney, West Coast and Richmond are slower teams amongst the finalists.

Disagree, Lions as yet can't put a side on the field that can compete for speed and agility at AFL standard.

Hopefully that changes.

 

[Fatcat08]

Old conversation that, both have moved on.

You really haven't and this is an internet forum where people are free to reply to posts in a timeframe of their leisure

Honestly the basis of a couple of your points arent unfounded as Quigley has alluded to, however the way you try to make it and the blind isistance on absolutes with no room for nuance or other considerations is reminiscent of reading the lions Facebook page comments, which in my experience has been a cesspool of idiocy and people yelling for attention.

 

[22Lions22]

What about Lance Franklin, he was high up in the draft iirc, you would still stake a ball winning mid over him?

Yes, plenty can score goals.(marketing dept might not agree but we're here to win finals)

The Lions had no trouble scoring last year without Franklin and neither did the other 17 clubs in the comp.

Did all the clubs win as much ball as they would like?

I don't think so!

 

[spotthedog1]

The other thing that's important to keep an eye on is that Noble's already stated that he subscribes to the idea that you draft for talent, and trade for needs.

So even if we aren't drafting faster players (and I'd argue we've done OK there last year or two), we might instead be looking to trade for them. Of course, we often struggle to attract talent via trade. Still, whatever you might say about Noble being a bit too generous to his old club to get Charlie Cameron up here, you can't deny that the kid provides plenty of speed.

 

[Fatcat08]

Some have strange reactions to having their eyes openned.

Yet originally you were bemoaning the lack of speed in our top 2 picks from last year. Which is it? Fwiw berry was 4th in repeat sprints last year and 7th in the agility test while mccluggage didn't test therefore you actually have no data on him. So what is the basis for this statement that we didn't go with speed and agility with our first picks?