2017 Draft thread

[jjami15]

Two people who didn't watch a game arguing with each other about the game.

How very BigFooty.

It is very much an opinion based world on here. Just further highlights the need for increased televised games of the national champs. Watching Ballenden on the weekend it was easy to form my opinion of him rather than going on what others say. Sincerely hope that show/stream
this weeks game between Vic C and Vic M purely due to the fact that the majority of the talent is within these two teams and especially Rayner and LDU when discussing our first pick.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

It is very much an opinion based world on here. Just further highlights the need for increased televised games of the national champs. Watching Ballenden on the weekend it was easy to form my opinion of him rather than going on what others say.

There's also a bit of a race between some for the crown of who can appear the most knowledgeable about the draftees despite, as you say, the lack of actually seeing them in the flesh or on video. There has to be a point surely where one is self-aware about the limitations and validity of ones opinion to take a step back and say "you know what, I don't have the knowledge to be engaging in this debate any further". I know a lot of you guys here are keen on the draft and I get it. But debate for debates sake has never been a long-term win for anybody - see the Schache thread as an example. I'd love to know how many hours some people wasted in that thread reading responses and formulating & typing replies when barely anybody had enough knowledge to make anything beyond a two sentence statement worthwhile.

 

[jjami15]

There's also a bit of a race between some for the crown of who can appear the most knowledgeable about the draftees despite, as you say, the lack of actually seeing them in the flesh or on video. There has to be a point surely where one is self-aware about the limitations and validity of ones opinion to take a step back and say "you know what, I don't have the knowledge to be engaging in this debate any further". I know a lot of you guys here are keen on the draft and I get it. But debate for debates sake has never been a long-term win for anybody - see the Schache thread as an example. I'd love to know how many hours some people wasted in that thread reading responses and formulating & typing replies when barely anybody had enough knowledge to make anything beyond a two sentence statement worthwhile.

Absolutely correct in regards to the need of seeing someone in the flesh before being able to formulate ones opinion. Stated this awhile ago that this is exactly I am personally doing and that's one of the reasons I find it quite annoying with the lack of viewing that there is for those nation wide.

 

[briztoon]

Two people who didn't watch a game arguing with each other about the game.

How very BigFooty.

I don't argue with lionshine. Constructive discussions, yes. Rarely do we disagree. I respect and rate Bishop very highly here on BigFooty. I don't see Bishop and lionshine arguing either.

True I haven't watched the W.A. versus Vic Country game. But like a lot of the other draft nuts, I read as much as I can about each draftee and game, watch what I can on YouTube, the AFL Website and Fox Sports. And pay close attention to people who talk to club scouts and recruiters.

There's also a bit of a race between some for the crown of who can appear the most knowledgeable about the draftees despite, as you say, the lack of actually seeing them in the flesh or on video. There has to be a point surely where one is self-aware about the limitations and validity of ones opinion to take a step back and say "you know what, I don't have the knowledge to be engaging in this debate any further". I know a lot of you guys here are keen on the draft and I get it. But debate for debates sake has never been a long-term win for anybody - see the Schache thread as an example. I'd love to know how many hours some people wasted in that thread reading responses and formulating & typing replies when barely anybody had enough knowledge to make anything beyond a two sentence statement worthwhile.

I don't see people trying to one up others in these discussions. I know Bishop has seen Higgins play live, and he's been pretty consistent in what he's said about Higgins since early in the season. And he's not the only one to hold this view who has gone and seen Higgins play in person.

Myself and others in these conversations often state we haven't seen a lot or any of certain players, but will reference draft watchers such as Cal Twomey, Brett Anderson, Matt Balmer, Bishop or D_P_S or Knightmare. We are aware of the limitations of our opinions. Luckily we are not involved in the actual decision making processes for the Lions or any other club, so our discussions are very much harmless.

 

[Billy Puller]

There's also a bit of a race between some for the crown of who can appear the most knowledgeable about the draftees despite, as you say, the lack of actually seeing them in the flesh or on video. There has to be a point surely where one is self-aware about the limitations and validity of ones opinion to take a step back and say "you know what, I don't have the knowledge to be engaging in this debate any further". I know a lot of you guys here are keen on the draft and I get it. But debate for debates sake has never been a long-term win for anybody - see the Schache thread as an example. I'd love to know how many hours some people wasted in that thread reading responses and formulating & typing replies when barely anybody had enough knowledge to make anything beyond a two sentence statement worthwhile.

Except BP had the knowledge that was ignored by all and then it was all the how much tail does josh get experts who came out to play.

Like I mean does anyone know if LDU will be able to get sufficient tail up here???? Because I think we need to add sex factor to our potential draftees in order to keep them happy in the lean state where just cause you play footy doesn't mean you'll be drowning (acccordin to the experts). Experts!??????

Experts!??????

 

[jackess]

It is very much an opinion based world on here. Just further highlights the need for increased televised games of the national champs. Watching Ballenden on the weekend it was easy to form my opinion of him rather than going on what others say. Sincerely hope that show/stream
this weeks game between Vic C and Vic M purely due to the fact that the majority of the talent is within these two teams and especially Rayner and LDU when discussing our first pick.

Draft opinions seem to form an echo chamber on big footy given most are based on whatever the amateur draft experts say.

 

[Billy Puller]

Draft opinions seem to form an echo chamber on big footy given most are based on whatever the amateur draft experts say.

Helllooooooo


Helloooooo


Helloooo

Hellooo


Hello

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Helllooooooo


Helloooooo


Helloooo

Hellooo


Hello

Geez Billy, it's nowhere close to 4:20.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think Higgins will almost certainly go top 15 and possibly top ten and would be very happy with him as our second pick. It's true that winning the Larke medal is no guarantee of top ten status, but it is pretty close. Graham last year is fresh in everybody's mind (pick 53), but he was atypical. The group of medal winners prior to that were pretty much all top ten (or priority picks) - Schache, Petracca, Sheed (pick 11), Whitfield, Coniglio, Bennell, Swallow, Watts. Higgins may well be bid down for the same reasons as Graham - perceived lack of pace - although I personally feel he has plenty more to offer, predominantly as a small forward rotating through the midfield. He is not an Ainsworth, more a Robbie Gray opportunist type forward. Although not at that level yet, he is more skillful than some others have suggested and is actually very good overhead for a guy of his size and that particular knock on him by some observers surprises me. I am biased, having followed him from his year 10 days at CGS, but also for that reason have seen a lot more of him than most of the draft watchers who tend to spread their watching around and therefore catch certain players only occasionally and often just on TV/video. Anyway, time will tell.

 

[lionshine]

There's also a bit of a race between some for the crown of who can appear the most knowledgeable about the draftees despite, as you say, the lack of actually seeing them in the flesh or on video. There has to be a point surely where one is self-aware about the limitations and validity of ones opinion to take a step back and say "you know what, I don't have the knowledge to be engaging in this debate any further". I know a lot of you guys here are keen on the draft and I get it. But debate for debates sake has never been a long-term win for anybody - see the Schache thread as an example. I'd love to know how many hours some people wasted in that thread reading responses and formulating & typing replies when barely anybody had enough knowledge to make anything beyond a two sentence statement worthwhile.

Yep good post TFB. Last year I spent a lot of time travelling around Australia for work purposes and in my spare time got to quite a few games of underage footy(Admittedly mainly in Vic) so I had a fair bit of knowledge regarding last years prospects but this isn't quite the case this year. I've seen a fair few of the highly rated prospects play in academy/all star games and last year when they were playing as underager's but as new prospects are rising I haven't had the chance to see some of them first hand.

I do take an interest in the draft, not only in the AFL but in other sports such as the NBA as well and I take particular interest when the Lions are down the bottom of the ladder obviously, however, my knowledge of this years draft prospects is mainly second hand from other draft watchers mixed in with the little amount that I have seen first hand both live and on TV/streams so as a result I'll probably start to refrain from contributing to much in this thread due to the fact that as you said the long winded debates aren't contributing to the thread in a positive manner. Thanks for pointing that out as well. I think if this sort of thing is pointed out in more threads and helps people take a step back and assess whether their opinions/debates are having a positive/negative effect on threads it will result in better, healthier debate and less clutter.

 

[briztoon]

From Matt Balmers weekly school footy wrap

Out at Keysborough, Haileybury on paper has one of the strongest APS teams in a long time, with names such as Luke Davies-Uniacke, Oscar Clavarino and the King twins – they are the clear favourites for the premiership. Andrew Brayshaw continues to play a strong role in the midfield, winning plenty of the football while Charlie Constable uses his smarts rotating through the midfield from across half back.

Davies-Uniacke has only dropped below 30 disposals once for the ‘Bloods’, with his 32 disposal and six-goal performance against Brighton simply amazing. Clavarino has been able to intercept mark the ball with ease in the defensive 50, dropping off his man and his ball use by foot has been solid. Despite brother Max being out with a knee injury – Ben King looks better with each game he plays up forward, booting seven goals against Xavier on Saturday. His contested marking was on show and his move forward has shown his versatility for the natural defender. Liam Stocker has looked good across half back, while athletic Jackson Ross continues to put his hand up as a draft smokey with glimpses of outstanding play as a centre half forward and on the wing.

Despite Clavarino’s strong start to the season, Carlton 2018 father-son prospect Ben Silvagni was able to get on top of him booting three goals for Xavier in their clash Saturday. Charlie Whitehead has started the season well and put in a gutsy tagging effort on Davies-Uniacke, while Anthony Zimmerman is using his goal smarts and speed up forward. Changkuoth Jiath (CJ) has been exciting through the midfield and up forward and is playing some great football.

 

[Albi_Mangler]

Hope the club was across the good piece of business in the NBA today where the Celtics traded pick 1 for pick 3 + first rounders for 2018 & 2019.

I am still hopeful that we avoid the spoon (surely a Vic club tanks for it) but it would certainly make sense if we evaluate the players on offer, identify a better fit for our club at 3 or 4 and trade down.

 

[briztoon]

Hope the club was across the good piece of business in the NBA today where the Celtics traded pick 1 for pick 3 + first rounders for 2018 & 2019.

I am still hopeful that we avoid the spoon (surely a Vic club tanks for it) but it would certainly make sense if we evaluate the players on offer, identify a better fit for our club at 3 or 4 and trade down.

It wasn't first rounders in 2018 and 2019. The 2018 pick has protections on it, so if it doesn't convey, then it becomes the unprotected 2019 pick. Either way, it's two picks, not three. Also both picks are not actually Philly's own picks. The 2018 pick once belonged to the Lakers, and the 2019 pick once belonged to Sacramento.

Being a Sixer fan, I hope this trade tastes like ash in the mouth of the Celts in 9 years time.

 

[Albi_Mangler]

It wasn't first rounders in 2018 and 2019. The 2018 pick has protections on it, so if it doesn't convey, then it becomes the unprotected 2019 pick. Either way, it's two picks, not three. Also both picks are not actually Philly's own picks. The 2018 pick once belonged to the Lakers, and the 2019 pick once belonged to Sacramento.

Being a Sixer fan, I hope this trade tastes like ash in the mouth of the Celts in 9 years time.

Ah that makes more sense. Thought sixers were paying quite a bit for Fultz.

 

[briztoon]

Auditioning for a two guard next.

 

[Scubaveg]

Ballanden is a big lump of a lad but he is definitely going to end up in the ruck. He is more Mumford than Boyd/Patton. Boyd and Patton dominated at this level as KPF and even Boyd now looks better as a ruck than KPF and from the limited viewing granted he isn't close to those two. His agility is lacking for a KPF as well. The kicking into our forward line was terrible granted but Ballenden did spend a large majority of the time in the ruck and did take some good contested marks later in the third and fourth quarters. Any future player comprising should be Mumford.

Tigies desperation for a KPF will see them bid at some point.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jjami15]

From Matt Balmers weekly school footy wrap

LDU seems to be the one really separating himself from the pack after reading that and also his form against the Northern Blues and also the first game in the National Champs. It'll be interesting to see if we stay the course with drafting mainly Vic C players which raises the likes of Paddy Dow, Lochie O or if we were to draft LDU looking at those he has played with like we did last year which would raise the likes of Hunter Clark (one I like) or from those at school footy like Charlie Constable. We did also draft better ball users last year so brings up the likes of Lachlan Fogarty and Joel Garner. Just some names to possibly keep a closer eye on. Jack Petruccelle is one I look forward to see as we need speed badly.

Tigies desperation for a KPF will see them bid at some point.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

They can have him at that price as he is a ruckman/forward and not a pure KPF from what I saw on the weekend.

Auditioning for a two guard next.

View attachment 383473

cant believe they've been able to do this. Celtic just don't know what they've done. 76ers will be ones to watch in a few years not 9. Can't wait to see Simmons play as well with a whole year of coaching/teaching development. Huge play by Colangelo.

 

[cotter101]

I think Adelaide, Richmond and North will all be keeping their eye on Ballenden. I don't rate him that highly. I wouldn't use a top 20 pick on him personally.

Absolutely correct in regards to the need of seeing someone in the flesh before being able to formulate ones opinion. Stated this awhile ago that this is exactly I am personally doing and that's one of the reasons I find it quite annoying with the lack of viewing that there is for those nation wide.

As someone who's been watching them come up through the U18's for years now, I can hardly complain about the lack of viewing, the reasons why it simply can't be done and the reasons why it won't be done. No-ones ever going to see every junior player in the flesh though. Everyone and I mean everyone including the people involved in the industry formulate opinions based on Video Footage and other peoples opinions. No one sees every player live.

 

[jjami15]

I think Adelaide, Richmond and North will all be keeping their eye on Ballenden. I don't rate him that highly. I wouldn't use a top 20 pick on him personally.



As someone who's been watching them come up through the U18's for years now, I can hardly complain about the lack of viewing, the reasons why it simply can't be done and the reasons why it won't be done. No-ones ever going to see every junior player in the flesh though. Everyone and I mean everyone including the people involved in the industry formulate opinions based on Video Footage and other peoples opinions. No one sees every player live.

In regards to viewing it is more in relation to streaming or being televised. I would expect an improvement in this over the years but still it lags quite behind. Especially like your last point but that's just only your opinion of course

 

[briztoon]

LDU seems to be the one really separating himself from the pack after reading that and also his form against the Northern Blues and also the first game in the National Champs. It'll be interesting to see if we stay the course with drafting mainly Vic C players which raises the likes of Paddy Dow, Lochie O or if we were to draft LDU looking at those he has played with like we did last year which would raise the likes of Hunter Clark (one I like) or from those at school footy like Charlie Constable. We did also draft better ball users last year so brings up the likes of Lachlan Fogarty and Joel Garner. Just some names to possibly keep a closer eye on. Jack Petruccelle is one I look forward to see as we need speed badly.

They can have him at that price as he is a ruckman/forward and not a pure KPF from what I saw on the weekend.

cant believe they've been able to do this. Celtic just don't know what they've done. 76ers will be ones to watch in a few years not 9. Can't wait to see Simmons play as well with a whole year of coaching/teaching development. Huge play by Colangelo.

OK off topic. I can't stress how much I hate the ****ing Colangelos. But it's one hell of a trade and I am waiting for it to be ratified by the league tomorrow. I can still see Danny Ainge pulling rug out at the last minute.

The 9 year reference wasn't in regards to when we'll likely compete for a 'chip. 9 years is how long teams can keep hold of their first round draft picks before they become an unrestricted free agent. As long as we want to keep Fultz, he's not going anywhere for 9 years. As long as everyone stays healthy (knock on wood) I fully expect the Sixers to make the playoffs next season, and Conference finals in 3 years. Quite simply, there is not another Eastern Conference team the assemblage of top young talent compared to the Sixers. And we still have more. We've still got a Euro stash SG kid who should come over in 2019 (even though he wants to come over in 2018), and we've still got more future traded in picks owed to us than any other team in the league, except for the Celtics and only because we just traded them one. And we still have the cap space where could potentially sign 3 max contract players this year or next year.

But everything hinges on the kids staying healthy.

 

[briztoon]

LDU seems to be the one really separating himself from the pack after reading that and also his form against the Northern Blues and also the first game in the National Champs. It'll be interesting to see if we stay the course with drafting mainly Vic C players which raises the likes of Paddy Dow, Lochie O or if we were to draft LDU looking at those he has played with like we did last year which would raise the likes of Hunter Clark (one I like) or from those at school footy like Charlie Constable. We did also draft better ball users last year so brings up the likes of Lachlan Fogarty and Joel Garner. Just some names to possibly keep a closer eye on. Jack Petruccelle is one I look forward to see as we need speed badly.

They can have him at that price as he is a ruckman/forward and not a pure KPF from what I saw on the weekend.

cant believe they've been able to do this. Celtic just don't know what they've done. 76ers will be ones to watch in a few years not 9. Can't wait to see Simmons play as well with a whole year of coaching/teaching development. Huge play by Colangelo.

Maybe. I am still waiting for private school footy to finish and to see all the kids playing in the TAC cup.

Honestly, apart form LDU and Cameron Rayner, there is so much potential movement where kids will end up being rated. Cerra could push up to be a top 3 pick. Paddy Dow could end up being top 10, or early second round. I flip flop constantly on Jack Higgins.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

From Matt Balmers weekly school footy wrap

From the same source...

Caulfield Grammar has some draftable players with Vic Metro midfielders Dylan Moore and Trent Mynott, pushing themselves into draftable conversations after superb seasons at all levels. Captain Lachlan Harris played his best game of the season with 41 disposals against Geelong Grammar...

He isn't in the Vic Metro U18 squad, but has apparently been playing pretty good footy for his school.

 

[CarterS]

What's the chances our PP selection gets knocked back on the grounds that we already have a very good draft position?

 

[briztoon]

What's the chances our PP selection gets knocked back on the grounds that we already have a very good draft position?

Can you expand on the "very good draft position".

The two sort of go in hand, you are a bad team, which means you will get a high first pick.

 

[BigCat2]

What's the chances our PP selection gets knocked back on the grounds that we already have a very good draft position?

We had pick 2 last year when they granted us PP.