2017 Draft thread

[briztoon]

How could I forget Beastmode *lashes self*

Doesn't count if you enjoy it.

 

[M Malice]

just having a read through the phantom draft threads on the main board and interesting to note that Knightmare had Cameron Rayner at 8 in his first power rankings earlier this month (had Jarrod Brander at 1 and Darcy Fogarty at 2, Connor Ballenden 4) in his latest post he is thinking Rayner is a likely number 1.

 

[briztoon]

Finally home from work, so there are a few posts I want to reply to or comment on.

Thank god their are no smalls forwards rated in the top 10 at the moment. I would hate to use a 1st round pick on a small forward. I agree with you, historically elite goal kicking midfielders and KPP talent should be a priority as 1st round selections.

Don't get me wrong, if we didn't have a higher priority/need in other areas of the ground, and an elite small forward was a clear need, and the best available talent at pick our 5 was an elite small forward , then I would take him.

Last year if McCluggage and McGrath went first and second, and come to our third pick, I would have been screaming at the TV to select Ainsworth. But tell you what, I have been real impressed with what I have seen of Powell-Pepper, Petrevski-Seton, Taranto and Florent, and to a lessor extent Bowes this season so far, and Brodie's performances in the JLT.

It just so happens that we have many needs, and midfield depth may be more an area of need that an elite small forward or general forward.

I expect us to draft a live wire small forward with pace to burn this draft. Any draft watchers able to throw some names up? I've seen some talk of Liam Ryan and he looks a goer from some footage I've seen. Exactly the kind of bloke we desperately ned on our list.

With which pick? I wouldn't be looking at an elite small forward with our first two picks. Pure mids or mid/forward or defender/midfielder would be who I would be looking at. As I mentioned previously, and as many have mentioned before, we could play McCluggage primarily as a forward while he develops his body and tank. Many bottom age U18''s play as a small forward or HBF before pushing in to midfield in their senior year.

Understand your sentiments in drafting best available but you also do need to take into account your teams list needs. Our midfield depth is woeful and besides the big 3 of Zorko, Beams and Rockliff the real next possible group are first/second year players. Hopefully we continue adding to this via the next couple of drafts. Small/speedy forwards can be taken a little bit later in the second/third round as it's obviously a need. There does need to be one proviso for next few groups of draftees though, if you're not one touch, can't kick, can't win own ball and if Lester can beat you in a running race need not apply.

Yup completely agree with all that. I did qualify my stance with, "...and we have a need for an elite small forward or HBF,..."

I'm really liking Rayner as a prospect, enough of a bull around the contest and doesn't look like a butcher with ball in hand. Can see the Petrecca comparisons.

Yup, it's hard not to like his combination of size and performances. With no performances of note and/or footage from Darcy Fogarty and James Worpel so far this season, he's clearly jumped up to the number one player I would like to draft.

 

[jjami15]

just having a read through the phantom draft threads on the main board and interesting to note that Knightmare had Cameron Rayner at 8 in his first power rankings earlier this month (had Jarrod Brander at 1 and Darcy Fogarty at 2, Connor Ballenden 4) in his latest post he is thinking Rayner is a likely number 1.

That's interesting as he didn't really rate the mids in this years draft and he was all about it being about Key Forwards and Ruckman. It's a bit folly to jump so early as when the national champs when the wheat separates from the chaff. It'll be interesting to see where Fogarty plays in the national champs, Petracca made the move into the midfield and blew everyone away and where Aaron Francis played forward, back midfield at times and went later after being there abouts. Currently in the two acadmey games and also in the trials he's been shifted around like Francis. I hope that Brenton Phillips lets Fogarty to settle in the midfield for large parts of games to show his wares.

 

[M Malice]

can not see a pure small forward going in the first round. these days you must have another string to your bow and be able to spend at least 20-30% running up the wing or through the middle, unless your Eddie Betts although he is elevating himself into potential GOAT status as a small forward, is getting better with age.

 

[jjami15]

can not see a pure small forward going in the first round. these days you must have another string to your bow and be able to spend at least 20-30% running up the wing or through the middle, unless your Eddie Betts although he is elevating himself into potential GOAT status as a small forward, is getting better with age.

Understand your sentiments but if your good enough your good enough and Richmond took Daniel Rioli at pick 15 and we know that Ainsworth went at 4. We here all saying mids for ours and Ports pick and the club has in a roundabout way but if there is a player who they see as a small forward (possibly Spargo) or someone else who they like then they'll take them as Fagan has said we need small forwards as well.

 

[SizeMatters]

Still a long way to go. Rioli for example, wasn't rated at all this time last year IIRC. A lot can change in the next 6 months. This draft looks fairly deep with inside mids, might lack a bit of overall pace though from what I've seen and heard which might mean some of those types might go earlier than expected. Pace really is becoming the 'must have' attribute these days, just like ball winning ability was a few years back. It's in vogue.

 

[briztoon]

Speed is becoming ever more critical all around the ground. Elite speed is going to be something that a lot of clubs will look for in the next few drafts I would think. We have few genuinely fast players and we certainly need some who can destroy opposition defensive lines with their pace.

My dream shopping list for the draft would be (in no particular order):

A skillful inside/outside mid with real pace and scoreboard hurt. Able to burn the opposition off out of the contest.
A super-quick elusive small forward who regularly scores goals - preferably ready to go from day one.
Ballenden
A fast small defender with a great kick and good instincts for taking the game on.
a really tough solid inside midfielder with endurance - first to the ball and tackles hard.
a speculative boom or bust mid/forward who might be nothing or might be one of the greats.

I doubt we would pick up a tall defender of enough quality through the draft that it wouldn't ultimately just be a wasted pick, unless there is one of absolute quality who is ready to play.

I would think six picks would be plenty and in fact we might not even use that many this year. No use adding kore of what we already have. Depending how we trade and who we let go, we might not go past four quality picks and leave it at that.

If the draft was held today, using the current ladder, we would have to picks 4, 12, 22, 42 & 76. At this stage, it's hard to see where we might be able to trade in another draft pick from. Does McStay land us an early or mid second round draft pick if he requests a trade back to Melbourne.

Unless Ballenden proves himself an absolute monster during the U18 Championships, I really do not want to match a possible bid on him with either of our first two picks.

It's only early in the season, but I do not believe any of the much touted KPP's have really stood up and shown much, and the top end of the draft might very well be dominated by mids and smaller types again. This might put a premium on the type of players we want to draft.

Players I have on my list to watch. Notes/Comments from AFL Draft Hub writer Josh Poulter.
Cameron Rayner - Mid/For - Vic Metro Western Jets -185cm. Genuine scoreboard impact.
Darcy Fogarty - Key Forward/Mid - S.A. - 193cm. Ceiling = Dusty Martin.
Lochie O'Brien - HBF/Mid - Vic Country Bendigo - 184cm. Elite pace and elite ball user.
Hunter Clark - Mid/For - Vic Country Dandenong - 186cm. Quick, clean, an effective ball user on both sides of his body.
James Worpel - Inside Mid - Vic Country Geelong - 185cm. Inside bull, better version of Powell-Pepper.
Luke Davies-Uniacke - Inside Mid - Vic Country Dandenong - 187cm. Inside bull with the full package coming back from injury. Should be a top 5 prospect on talent.
Lachlan Fogarty - Inside Mid - Vic Metro Western Jets - 179cm. Solid inside mid who hunts the ball and has huge tackle numbers.

Really need a few of the KPP's to step up and perform to have a chance at drafting two of these guys.

 

[briztoon]

That's interesting as he didn't really rate the mids in this years draft and he was all about it being about Key Forwards and Ruckman. It's a bit folly to jump so early as when the national champs when the wheat separates from the chaff. It'll be interesting to see where Fogarty plays in the national champs, Petracca made the move into the midfield and blew everyone away and where Aaron Francis played forward, back midfield at times and went later after being there abouts. Currently in the two acadmey games and also in the trials he's been shifted around like Francis. I hope that Brenton Phillips lets Fogarty to settle in the midfield for large parts of games to show his wares.

It's funny how last years draft crop was said to be a step below in class/ability/talent from previous years, but the over all depth of talent was deep. But I've been really impressed with a lot of last years mids performances in the first few weeks of this AFL season.

Twomey really talked up the top end of this years draft group, both the KPP's, mids and smaller players. He just said that outside the top end, this wasn't a deep draft group.

Seeing as last years draft class lacked KPP depth, a lot of underage KPP's got a lot of play and exposure, and I am wondering if this has led to the talking up of this years KPP's. I think Sam Hayes may be the only one of note to perform at a high level.

 

[briztoon]

Knightmare's long term vision for Brisbane is that we must draft Ballenden as our future full forward, Schache to be our centre forward and Hipwood moves down back to partner Andrews.

 

[dlanod]

just having a read through the phantom draft threads on the main board and interesting to note that Knightmare had Cameron Rayner at 8 in his first power rankings earlier this month (had Jarrod Brander at 1 and Darcy Fogarty at 2, Connor Ballenden 4) in his latest post he is thinking Rayner is a likely number 1.

It's going to fluctuate hugely over the next few months, let alone until Championships is done, because there's no negatives to throwing as many fake drafts out as possible to cover all bases - plus more hits, in KM's case.

It's the write-ups and descriptions that are more interesting than where each player is going.

 

[M Malice]

It's going to fluctuate hugely over the next few months, let alone until Championships is done, because there's no negatives to throwing as many fake drafts out as possible to cover all bases - plus more hits, in KM's case.

It's the write-ups and descriptions that are more interesting than where each player is going.

agree, i find it a bit deflating that i am already becoming interested in this years draft/FA prospects only 4 rounds in. look forward to the day when i don't even look at it untill the end of september.

 

[briztoon]

He did player profile write up type things for ESPN last year. Being that i don't get to watch any U18 footage i like to have a good read of player profiles towards the end of the year when you start getting a bit of an idea of the draft order and who might be likely heading our way. He does pretty good player right ups, really there are a few guys on the draft board that do some good write ups, but you just have to not take everything as gospel.

I sure as heck would not be drafting any KPF. TBH, i wouldn't be drafting any more talls. We have a decent group, majority of which are young. Some forwards might end up back and backs end up forwards yet. We desperately need to increase our midfield depth and smaller players. I have hope that this year being a good year for talls means we should be able to get some better mids with later picks, with most teams reaching for the talls. Still hoping we can snag 2 picks inside the top 10, and end up with 2 of the top 5 mids of the draft.

First of all, I've only watched very limited vision of this years draft class, so my comments are purely based on reading the various draft posters comments, and from reading Cal Twomey's articles.

I'm not so sure the top 15 to 25 will have as many talls as has been spoken about in the last 12 months.

Connor Ballenden is a Lions academy prospect and Brayden Crossley (ruck/forward) is a Suns academy prospect, so you may as well remove them from the draft pool. So to with GWS academy prospect Nathan Richards, but he's currently rated outside the top 30.

There are possibly two father son midfielders and another GWS academy midfielder in the top 20/25. Jackson Edwards for Adelaide, Patrick Naish for Richmond and Jack Powell for GWS. Something to think about, if Adelaide and Richmond both have Father/Son prospects rated in the first round before their first round picks, their first round draft picks may be available in a trade for a pick down grade and steak knives. Richmond also owns Geelongs first round draft pick.

So genuine first round KPP prospects.
Touted possible top 10 KPP prospects
Jarrod Brander - KPF
Sam Hayes - Ruck
Callum Coleman-Jones - Ruck
Oscar Clavarino - KPD
Possible possible top 20 KPP prospects
Thomas Scmusch - KPD
Nathan Kreuger - KPD

1 KPF, 2 Rucks and 3 KPD. We all know how teams are generally reluctant to draft rucks early. And none of the 3 KPD's are spoken about as a top 5 prospect.

You could include Darcy Fogarty as a third tall forward type, but he wants to concentrate and improve on his midfield craft, and by his own admission, his big weakness is his lack of speed.

From the draft thread players I have on my list to watch. Notes/Comments from AFL Draft Hub writer Josh Poulter.
Cameron Rayner - Mid/For - Vic Metro Western Jets -185cm. Genuine scoreboard impact.
Darcy Fogarty - Key Forward/Mid - S.A. - 193cm. Ceiling = Josh Kennedy Syd.
Lochie O'Brien - HBF/Mid - Vic Country Bendigo - 184cm. Elite pace and elite ball user.
Hunter Clark - HB/Mid - Vic Country Dandenong - 186cm. Quick, clean, an effective ball user on both sides of his body.
James Worpel - Inside Mid - Vic Country Geelong - 185cm. Inside bull that can burst from packs, better version of Powell-Pepper.
Luke Davies-Uniacke - Inside Mid - Vic Country Dandenong - 187cm. Inside bull with the full package coming back from injury. Should be a top 5 prospect on talent. Lacks top end speed.
Lachlan Fogarty - Inside Mid - Vic Metro Western Jets - 179cm. Solid inside mid who hunts the ball and has huge tackle numbers.

Other possible top prospects that I have little interest in.
Charlie Spargo - Mid/For - Vic Country Murray Bushrangers - 178cm. Good crumber in the forward line who can win the contested ball in the middle.
Jaidyn Stephenson - Forward - Vic Metro Eastern Ranges - 188cm. Ultimate boom or bust prospect, can his frame develop is the big question.
Jack Higgins - Mid/For - Vic Metro Oakleigh - 176cm. Averages large disposal numbers, but questions remain about his overall impact and use of the ball.

 

[briztoon]

Cal Twomey's Road to the Draft series for 2017 is set to start up next week (hopefully).

In the mean time, he's been pumping out a few articles on this years draft class.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-23/draft-prospect-hunter-clark-not-taking-sides

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-19/competitive-country-star-emerges-as-topfive-prospect

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-15/afl-academys-daviesuniacke-makes-his-mark

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-21/academy-star-connor-ballenden-could-give-lions-a-top10-boost

 

[jjami15]

Cal Twomey's Road to the Draft series for 2017 is set to start up next week (hopefully).

In the mean time, he's been pumping out a few articles on this years draft class.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-23/draft-prospect-hunter-clark-not-taking-sides

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-19/competitive-country-star-emerges-as-topfive-prospect

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-15/afl-academys-daviesuniacke-makes-his-mark

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-21/academy-star-connor-ballenden-could-give-lions-a-top10-boost

Really liked the article on Fogarty and especially that he's a country lad, done boarding school, had to be self sufficient and doesn't seem to be a mummies boy. These are the things that stood out for when we drafted McCluggage and Berry. Most probably we will end up with a pick 2/3 (we don't do wooden spoons) and to think that we could have either Fogarty or Rayner on our list (if they are ranked that highly).

First of all, I've only watched very limited vision of this years draft class, so my comments are purely based on reading the various draft posters comments, and from reading Cal Twomey's articles.

I'm not so sure the top 15 to 25 will have as many talls as has been spoken about in the last 12 months.

Connor Ballenden is a Lions academy prospect and Brayden Crossley (ruck/forward) is a Suns academy prospect, so you may as well remove them from the draft pool. So to with GWS academy prospect Nathan Richards, but he's currently rated outside the top 30.

There are possibly two father son midfielders and another GWS academy midfielder in the top 20/25. Jackson Edwards for Adelaide, Patrick Naish for Richmond and Jack Powell for GWS. Something to think about, if Adelaide and Richmond both have Father/Son prospects rated in the first round before their first round picks, their first round draft picks may be available in a trade for a pick down grade and steak knives. Richmond also owns Geelongs first round draft pick.

So genuine first round KPP prospects.
Touted possible top 10 KPP prospects
Jarrod Brander - KPF
Sam Hayes - Ruck
Callum Coleman-Jones - Ruck
Oscar Clavarino - KPD
Possible possible top 20 KPP prospects
Thomas Scmusch - KPD
Nathan Kreuger - KPD

1 KPF, 2 Rucks and 3 KPD. We all know how teams are generally reluctant to draft rucks early. And none of the 3 KPD's are spoken about as a top 5 prospect.

You could include Darcy Fogarty as a third tall forward type, but he wants to concentrate and improve on his midfield craft, and by his own admission, his big weakness is his lack of speed.

From the draft thread players I have on my list to watch. Notes/Comments from AFL Draft Hub writer Josh Poulter.
Cameron Rayner - Mid/For - Vic Metro Western Jets -185cm. Genuine scoreboard impact.
Darcy Fogarty - Key Forward/Mid - S.A. - 193cm. Ceiling = Josh Kennedy Syd.
Lochie O'Brien - HBF/Mid - Vic Country Bendigo - 184cm. Elite pace and elite ball user.
Hunter Clark - HB/Mid - Vic Country Dandenong - 186cm. Quick, clean, an effective ball user on both sides of his body.
James Worpel - Inside Mid - Vic Country Geelong - 185cm. Inside bull that can burst from packs, better version of Powell-Pepper.
Luke Davies-Uniacke - Inside Mid - Vic Country Dandenong - 187cm. Inside bull with the full package coming back from injury. Should be a top 5 prospect on talent. Lacks top end speed.
Lachlan Fogarty - Inside Mid - Vic Metro Western Jets - 179cm. Solid inside mid who hunts the ball and has huge tackle numbers.

Other possible top prospects that I have little interest in.
Charlie Spargo - Mid/For - Vic Country Murray Bushrangers - 178cm. Good crumber in the forward line who can win the contested ball in the middle.
Jaidyn Stephenson - Forward - Vic Metro Eastern Ranges - 188cm. Ultimate boom or bust prospect, can his frame develop is the big question.
Jack Higgins - Mid/For - Vic Metro Oakleigh - 176cm. Averages large disposal numbers, but questions remain about his overall impact and use of the ball.

Out of the main list that you've put up we could have two of those players on our list. In one of Twomey's articles about the academy trip to the States there is a quote by former Chicago Bears general manager Jerry Angelo to the scouts about recruiting players who are tough – "You've got to find the 'glass eaters'". There's some hard nuts in that list thankfully.

 

[briztoon]

First edition of Prime Prospects is back.
http://www.afl.com.au/video/2017-04-19/u18-star-forwards-dominate.workstation

 

[lionshine]

First edition of Prime Prospects is back.
http://www.afl.com.au/video/2017-04-19/u18-star-forwards-dominate.workstation

Some good highlights from the academy games in here including footage of Rayner, Stephenson, O'Brien, Spargo, Davies-Uniacke, Lachlan Fogarty and Darcy Fogarty.

Lachlan Fogarty hasn't been spoken about much in here but he had a great start to the TAC Cup season from reports and has backed that up with some nice performances in the academy games. Only 179cm but Andrew McGrath showed last year at the same height that that does not necessarily hinder your ability to climb up the draft boards. He's a smooth moving, pacey midfielder who racks up the footy and uses it well.

Just looking at those highlights Darcy Fogarty has gone to another level this year in terms of his strength. He could play AFL footy this week and shrug tackles aside. Look at the ease in which he breaks out of tackles against VFL players and he smashes them in some tackles of his own. He'll dominate the U18 carnival I reckon.

 

[POBT]

The footy world seems to have moved away from sub-180cm players being virtually undraftable. A few guys around or below the 180cm mark were drafted in the first couple of rounds last year. Under 175cm and you probably want to have a few other strings to your bow but I don't think a lack of height has the same stigma it once had. I don't know whether that is due to guys like Taylor and Daniel getting early games despite being undersized or the realisation that a centimetre or two didn't make much difference to modern day guns like Mitchell, Zorko, Rioli, Betts etc.

Just on that, I was really impressed with the debut of Fisher from Carlton last weekend. He didn't look too undersized and certainly his zip and skill in the forward half stood out. I think I read that he weighed in at something like 60kgs initially.

 

[chopperduck]

Liking Fogarty as a mid option. Nice big strong body. Ball winning type of mid we need. Then happy going for an outside type with some run with our 2nd pick, then hopefully matching Ballenden after that.

 

[pauldrc]

Hopefully Pick 1 is a standout, clear A grade 300 game marque midfielder.....would be nice, as we will surely have pick 1.

 

[M Malice]

Hopefully Pick 1 is a standout, clear A grade 300 game marque midfielder.....would be nice, as we will surely have pick 1.

i think our only competition for 18th would be carlton. i think sydney, hawthorn and north will all win more games than us over the course of the season and the dockers seem to have come good. either way if we finish in the bottom 2 we will get one hell of a "potential" elite level talent player. ie. Rayner/Fogarty.

 

[POBT]

Hopefully Pick 1 is a standout, clear A grade 300 game marque midfielder.....would be nice, as we will surely have pick 1.

Do you think we are that far behind Carlton? I also see North as a wooden spoon contender despite their competitive form.

 

[Cockliff38]

Do you think we are that far behind Carlton? I also see North as a wooden spoon contender despite their competitive form.

North could be like us last year - lose some close games against good opposition (for us this was North in round 2 & Sydney in round 6), lose confidence and eventually completely fall apart.

 

[pauldrc]

Do you think we are that far behind Carlton? I also see North as a wooden spoon contender despite their competitive form.

No, don't think we are far behind at all, I just think we are a couple of key injuries away from being very ordinary, although I also think we have more immidiate upside than Carlton in the coming years....some very exciting youngsters who just need more time (and to re-sign).

Think from next year we should expect to see us climbing the ladder, but one more year of pain seems more than likely.

 

[13Beast]

Do you think we are that far behind Carlton? I also see North as a wooden spoon contender despite their competitive form.

Seen a couple NM games, reckon they have actually been playing good footy. A lot more than the 0-4 win-loss record would suggest.