2017 Draft thread

[Forward We Go]

I was under the impression as far as KPP go looking for those big moments if everything. Isn't it a pretty widely held belief that Hipwoods gamebreaking quarter against Tasmania is what cemented him as a first round pick? He didn't perform near to that level in any other games as far as I know.

Anyone who kicks 4 goals in a quarter of footy will be perceived as "gamebreaking". His U18's championships were outstanding, not just that 1 quarter. That U18's carnival was primarily why he was drafted as a first rounder, not just that 1 quarter.

 

[jjami15]

I was under the impression as far as KPP go looking for those big moments if everything. Isn't it a pretty widely held belief that Hipwoods gamebreaking quarter against Tasmania is what cemented him as a first round pick? He didn't perform near to that level in any other games as far as I know.

You are right and I suppose we are a bit dubious to our academy players being so highly rated as in the past they have been at this time of year and have fallen away. In regards to Hipwood it wasn't just the one game as he was pretty solid down back and this is where he was placed in the u/18 all Australian team for 2015. On that we actually have six of these players on our list from that squad.

 

[Cockliff38]

You are right and I suppose we are a bit dubious to our academy players being so highly rated as in the past they have been at this time of year and have fallen away. In regards to Hipwood it wasn't just the one game as he was pretty solid down back and this is where he was placed in the u/18 all Australian team for 2015. On that we actually have six of these players on our list from that squad.
View attachment 362688

And the coach!

 

[spotthedog1]

Ok.

But it doesn't change my previous comment. If we hadn't traded away our 3rd round pick, we likely would have matched a pick for Watson.

Not sure that's true. Watson was only rated in the 50s by our recruiting team on draft night. Probably suggests he wasn't too highly rated.

Was that confirmed? I'd assumed at the time (no inside info) that the reason we didn't match on Watson was because of the deficit. He was bid on at the very end of R2. We didn't have the points to match, so the deficit would've come off our 2017 R2 pick, which is obviously a killer. He was taken at pick 34, but if we'd match, it'd massively push back our 2017 R2 (which will be around pick 20).

I worked on the assumption that if he slipped to R3 (a difference of about 4 more picks) we'd have matched, as the deficit would've been off next years R3 (around pick 38 instead of severely depleting pick 20).

 

[ZoBlitz]

Was that confirmed? I'd assumed at the time (no inside info) that the reason we didn't match on Watson was because of the deficit. He was bid on at the very end of R2. We didn't have the points to match, so the deficit would've come off our 2017 R2 pick, which is obviously a killer. He was taken at pick 34, but if we'd match, it'd massively push back our 2017 R2 (which will be around pick 20).

I worked on the assumption that if he slipped to R3 (a difference of about 4 more picks) we'd have matched, as the deficit would've been off next years R3 (around pick 38 instead of severely depleting pick 20).

Yup, from the recruiting team themselves at the Vic function. Allison was also rated in the 50s as well for interest's sake.

 

[Nunez]

Yup, from the recruiting team themselves at the Vic function. Allison was also rated in the 50s as well for interest's sake.

Surprised about that tbh. Not that I really care we we have him and I think he'll be a good player.

 

[Cockliff38]

Surprised about that tbh. Not that I really care we we have him and I think he'll be a good player.

They had/have questions on his inside game. From memory they, like us, expected him to build on his underage year more...

 

[briztoon]

Yup, from the recruiting team themselves at the Vic function. Allison was also rated in the 50s as well for interest's sake.

I figured that was the case.

When did the recruiters talk about where they had players rated? Before, during or after the draft.

Does give me some hope that if Ballenden isn't rated as high by our recruiting staff that they'll pass unless he's rated the next best KPF on board and they believe we still need another KPF.

 

[ZoBlitz]

I figured that was the case.

When did the recruiters talk about where they had players rated? Before, during or after the draft.

Does give me some hope that if Ballenden isn't rated as high by our recruiting staff that they'll pass unless he's rated the next best KPF on board and they believe we still need another KPF.

They had a sheet of paper with the names all listed and what number they were ranked at so it was how they saw things heading into the draft. Obviously things would change dynamically during the draft as certain types of players are drafted or not.

 

[John_Proctor]

Spot on. Media types from down south will notice the highlights and ignore the other areas that need a lot of work. I like Twomey generally but I'd have to assume with so many junior games to follow he's working from highlights or at best single-camera recordings to make his assessment of non-Victorian candidates.

he actually specifically discussed that Ballenden was being judged based on some key moments (like the few strong contested marks he had in the all stars match on grand final day last year). Compared him physically to Tom Boyd but said Boyd had a lot more runs on the board at the same stage of his draft year, stated that if it all clicks he could legitimately be a number 1 pick. He also specifically said he had been disappointing (or a 'slow start') to this year.

My take on the podcast was the unsaid implication of Twomey's commentary on Ballenden was 'not really doing enough at the moment to be a top 10 pick'.

 

[briztoon]

he actually specifically discussed that Ballenden was being judged based on some key moments (like the few strong contested marks he had in the all stars match on grand final day last year). Compared him physically to Tom Boyd but said Boyd had a lot more runs on the board at the same stage of his draft year, stated that if it all clicks he could legitimately be a number 1 pick. He also specifically said he had been disappointing (or a 'slow start') to this year.

My take on the podcast was the unsaid implication of Twomey's commentary on Ballenden was 'not really doing enough at the moment to be a top 10 pick'.

How did you "read" Twomey's comments re hoping Schache resigns for at least one more contract?

 

[jjami15]

Anyone want to see how to run and televise a draft should watch NFL draft today at 11 or 10 this morning.

 

[briztoon]

Anyone want to see how to run and televise a draft should watch NFL draft today at 11 or 10 this morning.

Tomorrow.

 

[13Beast]

Any of the guys keenly watching this year's crop of draftees please chime in here: given we are screaming for midfielders, and the club has indicated that its keen to build the team via the draft, would trading out our top pick (say we finish with #2 and Carlton get the spoon) for 2 x top 10 picks (St.Kilda have theirs and Hawthorn's) achieve what we want (two gun midfielders and whomever we draft with Port's pick) rather than banking in with just the #2 (+ Ports pick)?

If we are keen on drafting midfielders and the talent is nicely spread out among the top group of mids, perhaps this is an option? As opposed to a draft with 2-3 standout mids, all certain to get picked in the first few picks then a distinct drop off in talent to the next tier of mids.

 

[briztoon]

Any of the guys keenly watching this year's crop of draftees please chime in here: given we are screaming for midfielders, and the club has indicated that its keen to build the team via the draft, would trading out our top pick (say we finish with #2 and Carlton get the spoon) for 2 x top 10 picks (St.Kilda have theirs and Hawthorn's) achieve what we want (two gun midfielders and whomever we draft with Port's pick) rather than banking in with just the #2 (+ Ports pick)?

If we are keen on drafting midfielders and the talent is nicely spread out among the top group of mids, perhaps this is an option? As opposed to a draft with 2-3 standout mids, all certain to get picked in the first few picks then a distinct drop off in talent to the next tier of mids.

There's a couple things to consider.

First where Connor Ballenden is rated. We could trade trade with St. Kilda, but could end up using either of those picks to match a bid on Ballenden.

There is a long season to go yet, so there's every chance some kids in the current top 10 to 20 fall down some what, while other kids rise up the draft. So it's a bit hard to really comment on who is likely to be in the top 10 mix at this stage. There is a lot outside mid, small forward/mid or halfback/mid types in the top 20.

I'll cut and paste some profiles from one of the draft watchers, Don Patch Sword, on the draft board of players who are currently being talked about as top 10 talent.

Name: Darcy Fogarty
Position: 3rd Tall Forward/Inside Midfielder
Height: 192
Weight: 86 (?)
Team: Glenelg/South Australia
Player Comparison: Jake Stringer

Bio: Darcy is a big bodied Forward/Midfielder. He loves to bash and crash and isn't afraid to tackle hard and get under the oppositions skin, He wills himself in the contest and uses his size and balance to make a mockery of opposition tacklers. He is a great contested overhead mark with great judgment and bodywork, he has the power on the lead and is near impossible to stop if he keeps front position, his hands at ground level are also exceptional.

He has great skills to go with his inside work a generally accurate kick on both feet and good decision maker in traffic, he can bust through packs but also stay composed and keep still to look out wide for an option. He could play the Jake Stringer role at AFL level but has the capacity to be a dangerous big bodied midfielder, he has the tools to become the best player in the competition.

*He won the Ben Mitchell medal as the most professional AFL Academy player.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-19/competitive-country-star-emerges-as-topfive-prospect


Name: Cameron Rayner
Position: Forward/Inside Midfielder
Height: 185
Weight: 84
Team: Western Jets/Victoria
Player Comparison: Christian Petracca

Bio: Cameron is a dynamic player able to play through the midfield and up forward. Cameron has great composure with ball in hand and makes the right decisions often. He attacks the footy hard and has great hands at ground level, he is a smooth mover to go with his contested ability making him a very dynamic midfielder.

Up forward he has great hands and is difficult to beat one on one, he can find space and has a good first few steps to get separation on defenders. A great user of the ball his kicking and hands are safe. He attacks contests at speed but can also stop and compose himself in traffic. His ability to kick goals and win a lot of the ball make him a very dangerous player.


Name: Lochie O'Brien
Position: Outside Midfielder
Height: 184
Weight: 74
Team: Bendigo Pioneers/Victoria
Player Comparison: Zach Merrett/Andrew Gaff

Bio: Lochie is a quick and classy outside midfielder. He is clean and composed when in possession and can fire quick handballs effectively, he gets to the right spots all over the ground he can link up and create play and will be a big possession winner at AFL level. His kicking is elite often hitting targets anywhere on the ground, can make hard options look easy and get around opponents easily.

He is a great mark for his size often taking intercept marks down back but also taking marks up forward as well. He is a goal kicking midfielder but can also push down to defense which shows his great work rate and smart positioning. His Workrate, Disposal and Football smarts are elite and should become an elite midfielder at AFL level.


Name: Luke Davies-Uniacke
Height: 188
Weight: 84
Position: Inside Midfielder
Team: Dandenong Stingrays/Victoria
Player Comparison: Josh Kennedy(Syd)
Bio: Luke is a contested midfielder with great size and good midfield craft he was impressive in his last Vic Country game.. He has great timing of ruck taps and uses his bigger body to his advantage, he isn't quick but is above average for his size. He can go forward to kick goals when needed but has yet to show he can rest forward with most goals coming from the midfield. He has great decision making and his skills are generally good. Injury ruined his TAC year in 2016 but will hopefully be 100% for this year.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-15/afl-academys-daviesuniacke-makes-his-mark


Name: Paddy Dow
Position: Inside Midfielder
Height: 186
Weight: 80
Team: Bendigo Pioneers/Victoria
Player Comparison: Callan Ward
Bio: Paddy is a midfielder who loves the contest and one of the best contested midfielders in this draft. He attacks the footy all day, its not just his attack but its how cleanly he does it as well. His hands in traffic are clean and he positions himself well at stoppages, he can both attack and defend and also has a fast first few steps.

His skills are also very good, he has good depth on his kicks and picks the right options, he can hit up forwards to good effect as well. He can also go forward and he has kicked multiple goals a few times. Paddy has everything you want from an inside midfielder, a nice size, clean hands and ferocious attack on the footy.


Name: Hunter Clark
Position: Medium Utility
Height: 186
Weight: 79
Team: Dandenong Stingrays/Victoria
Player Comparison: James Bartel

Bio: Hunter is a talented utility able to play half-back, midfield and half-forward. He is a great leap, speed and a great user by foot on both sides. Hunter has a great mix of contested ability and run and damage on the outside, he isn't afraid to attack the footy both at ground level and in the air, he can beat much taller opponents in a marking contest.

He is super clean able to pick up the ball at full pace without much hassle, his hands are quick in traffic. Hunter never shirks a contest and with some extra size will be hard to stop at AFL level. His ability to play all over the ground will make him a highly sort after player, his mix of speed, skill and toughness make him a great prospect.


Name: Joel Garner
Position: Forward/Midfielder
Height: 184
Weight: 78
Team: Eastern Ranges/Victoria
Player Comparison: Chad Wingard
Bio: Garner is super skilful he can create goals up forward and win clearances in the midfield, he might just have the best hands in this draft he just never fumbles. Joel has incredible hands both overhead and at ground level he had shown his impressive leap aswell in last years championships. He is so clean in the air able to plunk marks our of a contest with much bigger and taller players, he reads the ball well in the air. At ground level and at clearances he never breaks stride able to hit the ball at speed and take it cleanly but then its his work once he gets the footy that is even better, he is super slick by hand able to fire out quick and precise handballs or craft a quick kick from a clearance.

Garner has some great attributes for the modern game with a great mix of speed, skill and smarts he will be the type of player you need to stop at AFL level because if he wins the footy he will damage the opposition. One of the standouts in the AFL academy and has shown he can perform against the best which was evident with his wonderful display in the All Stars game, an exciting player to watch and he looks a certain first round prospect.

 

[jjami15]

Any of the guys keenly watching this year's crop of draftees please chime in here: given we are screaming for midfielders, and the club has indicated that its keen to build the team via the draft, would trading out our top pick (say we finish with #2 and Carlton get the spoon) for 2 x top 10 picks (St.Kilda have theirs and Hawthorn's) achieve what we want (two gun midfielders and whomever we draft with Port's pick) rather than banking in with just the #2 (+ Ports pick)?

If we are keen on drafting midfielders and the talent is nicely spread out among the top group of mids, perhaps this is an option? As opposed to a draft with 2-3 standout mids, all certain to get picked in the first few picks then a distinct drop off in talent to the next tier of mids.

If any team was willing to trade two top ten picks then it is a possibility but you would also have to take into where those two picks were which would mostly be more towards the back-end of the top ten range. You would also most probably likely have to give a second rounder to get it through. Personally, I can't see it happening.
In regards to midfielders we all hope that we are able to land two of these (definite best inside mid at our first) in the first round (ours and Ports) which would go along way to rebuilding our midfield.

 

[13Beast]

If any team was willing to trade two top ten picks then it is a possibility but you would also have to take into where those two picks were which would mostly be more towards the back-end of the top ten range. You would also most probably likely have to give a second rounder to get it through. Personally, I can't see it happening.
In regards to midfielders we all hope that we are able to land two of these (definite best inside mid at our first) in the first round (ours and Ports) which would go along way to rebuilding our midfield.

Definitely agree two top midfielders is a priority. Just curious as to the depth of the midfield crop this year, and if it is indeed deep, if that may give some flexibility come trading for later picks without a huge deficit to us. Then again, it's probably a bit early to comment on this year's draft as I'm sure a lot of surprises/bolters are still yet to come.

 

[SizeMatters]

Has there ever been an example where a team trades two top 10 picks for like pick 1 or 2? I know it gets talked about a lot as potential trade scenario but I don't recall it ever actually happening. I just don't think clubs are willing to give up that much for one pick.

 

[POBT]

Has there ever been an example where a team trades two top 10 picks for like pick 1 or 2? I know it gets talked about a lot as potential trade scenario but I don't recall it ever actually happening. I just don't think clubs are willing to give up that much for one pick.

The Melbourne-GWS trade of recent years is close. Tyson+pick 9 for pick 2 plus some other pick swaps. Tyson was a recent top 5 pick at the time.

 

[dlanod]

Has there ever been an example where a team trades two top 10 picks for like pick 1 or 2? I know it gets talked about a lot as potential trade scenario but I don't recall it ever actually happening. I just don't think clubs are willing to give up that much for one pick.

It tends to be the reverse in terms of who declined the trade.

Swans tried to get pick 3 off Richmond (Martin) using their two first round picks and was knocked back.
GWS offered a similar deal to the Saints for pick 1 (Petracca) with picks 4 and 7 and was knocked back.

 

[chopperduck]

It is a type of trade that has to suit both clubs which is why it isnt common. You normally need 1 club to have 2 top 10 picks, but really wanting a specific player, ie, perhaps a gun KPF at 1 or 2. Normally i think you get better value with 2 top 10 picks, but if the player was exactly what the club needed, then it is worth the cost. Still overs but you normally need to offer overs to get the deal done.

You then need to have a club with said pick 1 or 2 willing to trade it, which means not wanting that top player for themselves. They can see the value of 2 picks instead of 1 much better sometimes, so that is where it gains traction.

Saints probably arent badly placed. They have had a few years with good draft picks and potentially are in a position now where they dont 'need' multiple top picks. They could start targeting specific players or player types, try trade up to get 1 or 2 years with getting top 3 talent in the draft whilst pushing for finals.

Would still depend on how the talent turns out. Saints are in a position where they could chase a specific player like the dogs with Bont if there is a stand out they want.

You typically see trades more like 6 and 16 for 2 and 25 or something.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

It tends to be the reverse in terms of who declined the trade.

Swans tried to get pick 3 off Richmond (Martin) using their two first round picks and was knocked back.
GWS offered a similar deal to the Saints for pick 1 (Petracca) with picks 4 and 7 and was knocked back.

I was under the impression that the potential GWS-Saints deal was more along the lines of 1 +19 for 4 and 7, that's why the saint declined.

Saints potentially holding 2x10s might be willing to do it this year, I see their list as being pretty well rounded but lacking that star power, which you hope to find with those premium picks.

 

[13Beast]

I was under the impression that the potential GWS-Saints deal was more along the lines of 1 +19 for 4 and 7, that's why the saint declined.

Saints potentially holding 2x10s might be willing to do it this year, I see their list as being pretty well rounded but lacking that star power, which you hope to find with those premium picks.

Yep, Saints would be right in the mix for sure. Just curious, are there any devastatingly standout players (perhaps in a key position), that would be a lock for a top pick and whom the Saints might fancy going for?

 

[dlanod]

I was under the impression that the potential GWS-Saints deal was more along the lines of 1 +19 for 4 and 7, that's why the saint declined.

The Saints supporters insist it was 4 & 7 for 1 & 21 but I'm not convinced pick 21 was the roadblock in the deal. I think the Saints had settled on their future KPF and would only trade if they were blown out of the water, e.g. 4, 6 and 7, which would've been ridiculous.

 

[briztoon]

Yep, Saints would be right in the mix for sure. Just curious, are there any devastatingly standout players (perhaps in a key position), that would be a lock for a top pick and whom the Saints might fancy going for?

If anyone is really going to seperate themselves from pack during the U18 Championships, I'd back Darcy Fogarty. But I'm not sure he'll have the team around him to help him stand out. S.A's midfield might not be able to support and get him enough of the ball.