2017 Draft thread

[briztoon]

Worpel doesn't sound like a poor man to me. Constable had impressive stats at the champs, but I'm not sure how many of them were contested possessions. Will check out when I have time.

TAC Cup: CP 101 UP 101
Champs: CP 29 UP 52

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Aiden Bonar on SEN this morning did drop that ‘Brissy’ visited yesterday for what it is worth.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

And reprtedly meeting Rayner today so doing their final due diligence on all options at all picks.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Suppose the Dogs screw us over and bid on Ballenden at 16, would we still match?

 

[Nunez]

Suppose the Dogs screw us over and bid on Ballenden at 16, would we still match?

Not worth speculating over as it won't happen.

 

[chopperduck]

Suppose the Dogs screw us over and bid on Ballenden at 16, would we still match?

Can bet there would have been a gentlemen's agreement when we traded schache that they wouldnt bid.

 

[Dalions]

Suppose the Dogs screw us over and bid on Ballenden at 16, would we still match?

Any team before 18 would be taking a gamble, it is pretty obvious what Brisbane have done during the trade period.
So if a team doesn't rate him at that pick then they will not bid.

 

[Gadzorks]

If they believe he can, then absolutly l would like them to pick him as long as they also think they have no concerns with him leaving after 2 years.

It takes a few years to build elite endurance, which means a few years with limited game time which in turn makes offers from rival clubs more attractive just as that fitness kicks in.

That's a no for rayner for me.

 

[Chezz]

It takes a few years to build elite endurance, which means a few years with limited game time which in turn makes offers from rival clubs more attractive just as that fitness kicks in.

That's a no for rayner for me.

All of our players get targeted for massive unders, so an early lack of fitness will make no difference. I'd be more worried about Brayshaw leaving...

Sign Rayner up

 

[Crawb]

Suppose the Dogs screw us over and bid on Ballenden at 16, would we still match?

The earliest anyone bids on Ballenden is mid 20s. Could well slip into the mid-late 30s.

 

[Lions Lions]

All of our players get targeted for massive unders, so an early lack of fitness will make no difference. I'd be more worried about Brayshaw leaving...

Sign Rayner up

I think Brayshaw is huge chance to bail after two years and try and get to Melbourne to play with his brother as they enter the flag window.

I'd much rather we draft Rayner personally.

 

[spotthedog1]

Depends on Brayshaw. Some talk that we could pick up his brother as well, although that may be more risk still. We're re-rookieing Claye, who has some promise, but has struggled over the years. Do we want another brother on the list it's twice as hard to delist?

 

[Lions Lions]

Depends on Brayshaw. Some talk that we could pick up his brother as well, although that may be more risk still. We're re-rookieing Claye, who has some promise, but has struggled over the years. Do we want another brother on the list it's twice as hard to delist?

Claye is a very good Neafl level player who can come in and play some good footy at AFL level, it's just he just struggles to get through whole seasons. He is a great bloke, well liked, can see why we would re rookie him.

 

[briztoon]

Aiden Bonar on SEN this morning did drop that ‘Brissy’ visited yesterday for what it is worth.

What I found interesting from the interview is that Bonar had an agent (Robbie D'Orazio) by the time of his second knee reconstruction, when he would have been 17 and in year 11.

btw Robbie D'Orazio kids in this years draft;
Cameron Rayner (Western Jets)
Luke Davies-Uniacke (Dandenong Stingrays)
Adam Cerra (Eastern Ranges)
Jaidyn Stephenson (Eastern Ranges)
Jack Higgins (Oakleigh Chargers)
Hunter Clark (Dandenong Stingrays)
Aiden Bonar (Dandenong Stringrays)
Lochie O'Brien (Bendigo Pioneers)
Lachlan Fogarty (Western Jets)
Sam Hayes (Eastern Ranges)
Connor Ballenden (Lions Academy)

 

[Ray Button]

One hell of a payday coming up for D'Orazio!

 

[Lions Lions]

What I found interesting from the interview is that Bonar had an agent (Robbie D'Orazio) by the time of his second knee reconstruction, when he would have been 17 and in year 11.

btw Robbie D'Orazio kids in this years draft;
Cameron Rayner (Western Jets)
Luke Davies-Uniacke (Dandenong Stingrays)
Adam Cerra (Eastern Ranges)
Jaidyn Stephenson (Eastern Ranges)
Jack Higgins (Oakleigh Chargers)
Hunter Clark (Dandenong Stingrays)
Aiden Bonar (Dandenong Stringrays)
Lochie O'Brien (Bendigo Pioneers)
Lachlan Fogarty (Western Jets)
Sam Hayes (Eastern Ranges)
Connor Ballenden (Lions Academy)

That's good work Briztoon, I'd say he has good relationship with the lions, 6 or more of those players been linked to the lions.

 

[Lions Lions]

If we didn't take Lochie Obrien with #18 I wouldn't be opposed to taking Ed Richards despite the go home suggestion that the pies would be his eventual home. In Chris Fagans grand plans I think we are looking for a smart left footer out of the back half and I'm hoping the lions coaching staff want to relieve Daniel rich of that role with Hodgey coming in this year. Richy could then move to onball and half forward where he can be devastating by foot.

Can really see pick #18 being Obrien or Richards. Maybe even leaning towards Richards.

 

[briztoon]

If we didn't take Lochie Obrien with #18 I wouldn't be opposed to taking Ed Richards despite the go home suggestion that the pies would be his eventual home. In Chris Fagans grand plans I think we are looking for a smart left footer out of the back half and I'm hoping the lions coaching staff want to relieve Daniel rich of that role with Hodgey coming in this year. Richy could then move to onball and half forward where he can be devastating by foot.

Can really see pick #18 being Obrien or Richards. Maybe even leaning towards Richards.

Yup, Ed Richards is my preferred choice at 18 if available.

I posted this elsewhere in a draft discussion.

I flip flop continually about Rayner's ceiling. Apart from the champs, he did **** all this year, and remember he copped a fair bit of criticism about mailing in his late school boy games. He has the physical attributes and skills, just hasn't put it together consistently enough. And if the endurance doesn't come, he won't be a game winner.

I believe Dow has the tools to be a star, he's doesn't have as a mature body as LDU and Rayner and will take a couple of years to develop in a system, but believe he might turn out the best from the draft.

I'm confident LDU will be the second best player from this draft. Nor would I be worried about his drive. Nor would I be worried about his potential to reach his ceiling. He's the type of kid I could genuinely see Hodge mentoring, not as a vocal leader like Brayshaw is touted to be, but a "do what it takes on the field" to lead a team through how you play.

In a normal draft, LDU would be a mid top 10 draft pick, and Dow would be a top 10 to 12 pick, like Oliver Florent last year. Brayshaw would be a Berry pick in the mid teens. But there are no gun KPP's, or Callum Mills or Clayton Oliver types, or Darcy Parish or Hugh McCluggage types. Just a lesser Christian Petracca type.

Brayshaw on the other hand, could be Hodge clone on the field. Honestly, in this draft, if Dow has genuinely said to our recruiters he doesn't want to move, and what ever the concerns are about LDU, then I probably would draft Brayshaw. Probably both of them (Hamish with our last pick).


I do believe the game is changing, and there won't be a place on the field for traditional wingers, the Ling and O'Brien types, if they can't win their own ball. Teams will need players such as Dow, or Sam Walsh (or Berry's younger brother) who can play inside and out and win their own ball. Contested footy is King, and there isn't a place for passengers.

Your midfield starting 5 will need to have a make up similar to Berry, Mathieson, D. Beams, LDU/Dow/Brayshaw and McCluggage, with another LDU/Mathieson type (Worpel) and a Dow/Brayshaw type (Sam Walsh) on the bench. Ideally you have 3 genuine mobile ball winners and two inside/outside types on the field. I hope McCluggage can develop his inside/contested game similar to Dayne Beams, as I see McCluggage as our Dayne Beams replacement. Then you need more in the reserves to cover for injuries.

Then teams will need three or four small/medium defenders who can run through the midfield and down the wings. Similarly three or four small/medium forwards who can do the same running defensively. As well as one of each on the bench. With the likes of Zorko, Taylor, Bundy, CC and MRobbo we've got the small forward/mids covered. With NRobbo, Mayes, Witherden and Cox we need at least another small/medium defender able to run the wings or in to the guts. Coffield would have been excellent to add to our fleet of small/medium defenders.

In the absence of genuine inside midfielders in the later half of the first round this year, I would look to draft Lachlan Fogarty and Ed Richards. Kids who can play small forward/inside mid role and medium defender/inside mid role.

I'd look at a utility type such as Charlie Ballard before I'd consider wingers who can't win their own ball.

Then you can have two modern elite bigs at either end, but they need to be mobile. If they are not elite, I don't believe there will be a place in the game for non elite talls, with teams preferring to go small, like the Tigers with a Dusty (Rayner) type. Teams then can have either have a 3rd tall type forward similar to Darcy Fogarty up forward or a Rayner/Aiden Bonar type. In defence a more mobile type such as a NRobbo type who can play as a third tall in defence who also has the ability to play as a mobile defender/mid able to play on smaller forwards.


If you're looking for kids who project to be the type who can win you a game off their own boot, maybe Dow or Rayner if they develop to how people have projected them, otherwise better off looking in next years draft class.

 

[briztoon]

That's good work Briztoon, I'd say he has good relationship with the lions, 6 or more of those players been linked to the lions.

If you google Robbie D'Orazio, a Herald Sun article from yesterday will come up. Click on it and the first time should take you past the pay wall.

I should have copied and pasted the whole thing here, as there is a lot in the article.

 

[Lions Lions]

Yup, Ed Richards is my preferred choice at 18 if available.

I posted this elsewhere in a draft discussion.

I flip flop continually about Rayner's ceiling. Apart from the champs, he did **** all this year, and remember he copped a fair bit of criticism about mailing in his late school boy games. He has the physical attributes and skills, just hasn't put it together consistently enough. And if the endurance doesn't come, he won't be a game winner.

I believe Dow has the tools to be a star, he's doesn't have as a mature body as LDU and Rayner and will take a couple of years to develop in a system, but believe he might turn out the best from the draft.

I'm confident LDU will be the second best player from this draft. Nor would I be worried about his drive. Nor would I be worried about his potential to reach his ceiling. He's the type of kid I could genuinely see Hodge mentoring, not as a vocal leader like Brayshaw is touted to be, but a "do what it takes on the field" to lead a team through how you play.

In a normal draft, LDU would be a mid top 10 draft pick, and Dow would be a top 10 to 12 pick, like Oliver Florent last year. Brayshaw would be a Berry pick in the mid teens. But there are no gun KPP's, or Callum Mills or Clayton Oliver types, or Darcy Parish or Hugh McCluggage types. Just a lesser Christian Petracca type.

Brayshaw on the other hand, could be Hodge clone on the field. Honestly, in this draft, if Dow has genuinely said to our recruiters he doesn't want to move, and what ever the concerns are about LDU, then I probably would draft Brayshaw. Probably both of them (Hamish with our last pick).


I do believe the game is changing, and there won't be a place on the field for traditional wingers, the Ling and O'Brien types, if they can't win their own ball. Teams will need players such as Dow, or Sam Walsh (or Berry's younger brother) who can play inside and out and win their own ball. Contested footy is King, and there isn't a place for passengers.

Your midfield starting 5 will need to have a make up similar to Berry, Mathieson, D. Beams, LDU/Dow/Brayshaw and McCluggage, with another LDU/Mathieson type (Worpel) and a Dow/Brayshaw type (Sam Walsh) on the bench. Ideally you have 3 genuine mobile ball winners and two inside/outside types on the field. I hope McCluggage can develop his inside/contested game similar to Dayne Beams, as I see McCluggage as our Dayne Beams replacement. Then you need more in the reserves to cover for injuries.

Then teams will need three or four small/medium defenders who can run through the midfield and down the wings. Similarly three or four small/medium forwards who can do the same running defensively. As well as one of each on the bench. With the likes of Zorko, Taylor, Bundy, CC and MRobbo we've got the small forward/mids covered. With NRobbo, Mayes, Witherden and Cox we need at least another small/medium defender able to run the wings or in to the guts. Coffield would have been excellent to add to our fleet of small/medium defenders.

In the absence of genuine inside midfielders in the later half of the first round this year, I would look to draft Lachlan Fogarty and Ed Richards. Kids who can play small forward/inside mid role and medium defender/inside mid role.

I'd look at a utility type such as Charlie Ballard before I'd consider wingers who can't win their own ball.

Then you can have two modern elite bigs at either end, but they need to be mobile. If they are not elite, I don't believe there will be a place in the game for non elite talls, with teams preferring to go small, like the Tigers with a Dusty (Rayner) type. Teams then can have either have a 3rd tall type forward similar to Darcy Fogarty up forward or a Rayner/Aiden Bonar type. In defence a more mobile type such as a NRobbo type who can play as a third tall in defence who also has the ability to play as a mobile defender/mid able to play on smaller forwards.


If you're looking for kids who project to be the type who can win you a game off their own boot, maybe Dow or Rayner if they develop to how people have projected them, otherwise better off looking in next years draft class.

That's a good run down and Forsyth for the vision of the game and our team. I think we will push another player slowly into the midfield too. Alex Witherden, has great ball winning ability reads the play well just needs to build a tank big enough to play as full time midfielder.

 

[briztoon]

That's a good run down and Forsyth for the vision of the game and our team. I think we will push another player slowly into the midfield too. Alex Witherden, has great ball winning ability reads the play well just needs to build a tank big enough to play as full time midfielder.

I'd prefer to play Witherden mostly off one flank, with pinch hitting minutes in the middle.

As I said in my spiel above, without traditional wingers, it's the HBF's and HFF's that will have to predominantly cover this role, along with you inside/outside midfielders.

 

[Eons]

Hopefully the Swans pick Higgins over Fogarty at 14 if we draft Rayner at 1. Be very tense if we pick Rayner waiting to see what the Swans do with 14.

 

[cotter101]

What are your thoughts on Brayshaw cotter?

This could also be the case, maybe all the 'how did he drop so far?' talk has confused me.

Started rising up the ranks in a big way. I'd be happy with him at pick 1. Doesn't have the weapons of a Dow or Rayner, but is a consistent, leader type with minimal GHF I'd have thought.

 

[Comeback Lions]

Hopefully the Swans pick Higgins over Fogarty at 14 if we draft Rayner at 1. Be very tense if we pick Rayner waiting to see what the Swans do with 14.

I can see this strategy of picking friends/players from the same club not happening. If we take Rayner it sounds like there's a pretty good chance of Lachlan Fogarty going to the Swans at 14. If we take Brayshaw, then there's no guarantee Charlie Constable will be there at 15, although he seems to be one of the few possible top tens not invited to the draft.

We only need 3 or 4 of Collingwood, Adelaide, West Coast, Bulldogs to take a tall each and a decent midfielder will be available at 15. Clark, Stephenson, Higgins, Bonar would be great selections at 15. Hoping for a slider here.

I enjoyed Britzoon's recent post and agree with him about Rayner. It seems strange, but the player touted as best player seems the most likely to be a bust. Schache's dominance at Champs (admittedly in a different position) should give everyone pause for thought. Any of the elite midfielders Brayshaw, LDU and Dow are safer picks. Rayner is supposed to be a match winner, but he really doesn't have the form to support that claim. To my mind the story and hype and a few eye catching highlights have outstripped the player. If we pick him, I hope I'm wrong.

Agree with Briztoon about the changes to game, and really hope we take someone with genuine pace in the first three. One of Ed Richards, Stephenson, Bailey, Petruccelle would be good. Don't want players who don't win their own ball.

 

[ManeMan]

If we didn't take Lochie Obrien with #18 I wouldn't be opposed to taking Ed Richards despite the go home suggestion that the pies would be his eventual home. In Chris Fagans grand plans I think we are looking for a smart left footer out of the back half and I'm hoping the lions coaching staff want to relieve Daniel rich of that role with Hodgey coming in this year. Richy could then move to onball and half forward where he can be devastating by foot.

Can really see pick #18 being Obrien or Richards. Maybe even leaning towards Richards.

Joel Garner is one i wouldn't mind us taking at 18. He has slid down the rankings a bit this year, probably due to being played all over the field, but seems to have found his best position as a half back where he can put his beautiful left foot kick and his intercept marking ability to best use. He's a natural footballer and a natural leader too, having captained Vic Metro during the champs this year. As a bonus, i read in an article the other day that he thought it would be "unreal" to be drafted to Brisbane, where he could learn from his idol, Luke Hodge.

I know we have a bevy of half back flankers at the moment, but some of them may move into the midfield in the future (Witherden, Cox, Allison) and you can never have too many good users of the footy. Also, i don't think anyone we have playing off the half back at the moment reads the ball as well in the air as Garner, who is a prodigious intercept mark.