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Discussion in 'Fremantle' started by Unique Name, Jan 22, 2017.
why do we keep carrying all this dead weight? Time to spill the list.
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Sam Hayes as well.
No one has implied he is a dud, literally not a single person on here.
I stand corrected. We criticized him, but in no way did we call him a dud.
After ready what been wrote definitely look like weller is dud, whether is intention or unintentionally by the writer .
Ross really likes having certain players standing in certain spots during play, sometimes that might not play immediately to their strengths but god help you if you aren't where he expected you to be.
I actually think modern workman coaching is more about having your field set how you want it in front of your opponent ball carrier than it is about winning contests. For example, it being more important that the small defender is goal side and in front of the key defender spoiling the ball that it is about that key back marking it.
Playing the percentages that most contests will be drawn, having a requirement that someone would be at ground level for the spillage is the safe play. We didn't do this last season when transitioning from defense but I noticed the side doing it against Carlton so fingers crossed.
It obviously highlights the benefit of a player who wins as many contests as they draw because that player can run on to make play up the ground.
What exactly has Weller done that screams "star"?
He has the occasional good kick.
He doesn't get enough ball, doesn't position right. He's been moved to the back line for two reasons. One we don't have enough good kicks there. Two, like Crozier, he needs the ball coming at him...
People seem less certain on Langdon and Blakely, although both have had games at WAFL level and AFL where you know they're going to make it.
He seems to be uncertain with his decision making.
Case in point he ran hard to receive the ball running into the forward line in the week end, crossed the fifty and then tried to pass the ball and shanked it badly.
He's usually a reasonable kick...why wasn't that sailing over the umpire's hat?
Come at me E Shed
I will agree with you when he reach 50 games like croz ,until then I give him benefits of doubt. You make sense most of time , here I kind of disagree.
If Weller finds space to burst and deliver it won't be because he is trying to do it, it will be because the opposition coach slipped up and let him.
I think he will be under the lock for a couple of years, he has all the weapons. Just like Stephen Hill.
He's not going to amount to what we need sounds a lot like calling him a dud. I understand that taken in context it could just mean he's not going to be a creative, running half back like JJ.
I also realise I've done what frustrates me in others sometimes which is take a couple of posts and make a generalisation so I do take your criticism.
Perhaps Weller hasn't come on as fast as we'd all like but I think he's shown some very good signs at time, enough at least to give him a little more time. He may well end up another Sheridan (or where Sheridan is at after 5 years or so which is an adequate but not special AFL player).
Certainly I think the people responsible for choosing him over Lever would be a little nervous.
I think I put weller and langdon = to make it earlier compare to blakely.
Overhead not as good as hazzaby
Getting the ball and handball not as good as Barlow
Kicking and flexibility to play other position not as good as mundy.
See above, he's only showed a bit so far. Not enough to say he's going to be a star but has good pace and can be an excellent kick.
Do we need Weller to be a massive ball winner for the moment? I'd rather have a half back that had 10 quality disposals than a guy that racked up 30 but sprayed them everywhere. He's still learning the new role and I'd say long term our strategy should be to get it into his hands when coming out of defence. But is he ready for that responsibility yet? I think the coaches also have to take some responsibility for poor decision making - players need simple rules so they can execute instinctively. Streaming inside 50 Weller should have a licence to take a shot - he clearly didn't have that on the weekend but it was only JLT.
And why is this Weller convo in this thread?
Lach72 and E Shed arguing about a good young player.
Sounds familiar. E Shed was right about Stephen Hill too. Give Weller some more time.
FWIW, Ross Lyon specifically mentioned Weller (as having done some good things) in his post match interview.
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I have an issue sometimes with Ross trying to make a round player fit a square hole, Instead of playing
their natural position, he has tried to manufacture someone.
In the modern game you need classy, assured, half backs, its the same at half forward, we need to draft
what we need, not convert midfielders to plug holes.
I'm all for drafting for positions as well but we have drafted plenty of half backs (look at our list, it's full of them) - which of them are a better option than Weller, Crozier or Sutty at the moment though (all of whom weren't drafted as half backs)? If they were better then we wouldn't be playing Weller at half back would we? Where would you play Weller if not at half back? Not as a forward because as per your point he wasn't drafted as that. Perhaps on a wing? And then whose spot there does he take, one of the Hills, Langdon, Tucker, DPearce? And then where do they go?
I am hopeful guys like Luke Ryan and even Duman step up this year as guys that were drafted as quality rebounding half backs. I also expect Carter to be putting his hand up shortly after we draft him. I'm not giving up on Hughes yet, and it will be good to see if Nyhuis has improved again this year as well. And of course Logue might be a hybrid half back type as well. Lots of options there but none are better than Weller and Crozier yet. And if you bring them in, someone has to go out as well - and I'd rather Tucker, Weller, Blakely and Langdon all stay B22 as much as possible this year, and I'm pretty confident Balic will be banging down the door soon also. You need midfielders to be flexible these days with the limited interchanges - half back and half forward are the obvious places for them to slot in surely? I'm not sure Weller's long term future is at half back but I also don't think it's impeding his development - he is playing AFL each week and seems pretty happy with his role.
Weller had 26 and 28 possessions off a half back flank in his last two games of AFL - so the numbers stack up that he can play that role.
I'm not really sure we can turn the years back and say a player is only a one position player. Some part of Hawthorns 3-peat success was about having players who could switch from one position to another like Burgoyne Hodge Gunston Bruest Rioli, and I think that's where we are headed with our wings, half backs, half forwards.
As an example, in the JLT, I thought Blakely was quite effective across half forward as a ball winner - except at the moment he lacks a bit of goal sense and had about 3 missed chances to score goals against Carlton. So, do you give up on it, or try and nurture it to see if he can add a bit of polish around the goals - after all - if Blakely ends up as a pure inside midfielder he still needs to be able to hit the scoreboard.
Blakely is playing in the forward line because at the moment he is not in our best inside mids. By doing that he develops other aspects of his game, and also gets to roll through the midfield when the established players take a rotation either of the field or to the forward line. Sure it is not his natural position but it is a far better way for him to develop than hanging around at Peel until Mundy retires. In fact when Mundy retires he would have already requested a trade and we would be on the look out for another inside mid to develop, but who won't be ready for 2-4 seasons.
In contrast, Crozier has been given significant opportunity to play in what seemed to be his natural position and never grasped that opportunity. Makes perfect sense to me to see if his talents can be developed by giving him a different task.
Same rationale goes for all of our young players. They develop more rounded games for themselves, understand more about the gameplan and become mature versatile players.
Interesting discussion re: Ross positioning players. It's why Barlow was booted, in my opinion. Barlow, to be frank, was a ball hog, for good or for worse. I think that rubbed Lyon the wrong way considering a (now) developing team + fyfe and neale racking up numbers. Remember when there was rumours Lyon was shitty at Pav for drifting into the midfield too much?
Still, with 30d 2g a game sometimes, as a fan it is hard to see how there is an issue with that. Barlow will kill it at Gold Coast and considering he's around 27 even if he stayed I reckon he would've seen through the rebuild.
Tl;dr I miss barlow already
The thing that confuses me a bit in this discussion of half backs is that Darcy Tucker was drafted as an attacking half back and we have chosen not to play him there - this from the afl site prior to his draft:
With his zip and drive from half-back, Tucker can set up play up the ground for his team. He's comfortable with the ball and backs himself with his left foot, and enjoys taking the game on, having a bounce and finding a teammate.
This year he averaged nearly 23 disposals in the TAC Cup, which included five rebound 50s a game. He also picked up nearly nine handball receives an outing, highlighting his ability to attract the ball and provide some run. He likes to baulk opponents, create some room and then take off.
If that doesn't sound like exactly what we need I don't know what does.
I understand what you are saying, but Crozier last year look liked he was going to breakout at halfback. Now it
appears he is a forward again, even though he couldnt match Balla's efforts in the past.
Ross has tried Barlow, Deboer, Blakey at half forward, Sutcliffe, Sherro, at halfback, Ibbotson was drafted as a
winger, late to the game, athletic, sound familiar? I think Spurr was a midfielder, we have plenty out of position,
which is fine for the short term, but it would be nice to see a smoother transition, and this type of development,
experiments done at Peel.
Fyfe was drafted as a forward and became a midfielder. That seemed to work out ok
Mundy was a full back when drafted and look at how that worked out.