2017 Ladder Predictions

[Blackas87]

I haven't told anyone their prediction is wrong

You sure?

Poster puts Hawthorn free falling to 15th

It will get very ugly for the Hawks- basically sold this and next years draft for O'Meara.


1: GWS
2: Bulldogs
3: West Coast
4: Geelong
5: Adelaide
6: Gold Coast
7: Essendon
8: St Kilda
----------
9: Melbourne
10: Collingwood
11: Port Adel
12: Richmond
13: Sydney
14: North Melb
15: Hawthorn
16: Carlton
17: Freo
18: Brisbane

But this post gives off the vibe that you are telling them that they are wrong.

As much as people may want it to be the case Hawthorn just aren't going to free fall down the ladder when Clarkson is still in charge and has so much talent at his disposal.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You seem to argue a lot, why do you take it so badly? First you have a go at someone and then you do exactly the same thing.

You can't see the difference because you refuse to admit that you're wrong, it's hilarious watching you try to argue the point. Post after post, you just can't let it go.

That guy made a prediction, he didn't mention anything about Hawthorn 'selling their soul', he pointed out a fact. Why do you try to twist his words to suit your argument? He stated that Hawthorn traded out two years worth of high picks, which is absolutely accurate.

Apart from it not being the exact same thing, of course.

Note: one person can't argue with themselves.

And with that, I don't think this needs to continue.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But this post gives off the vibe that you are telling them that they are wrong.

That post was just a general comment to Trav20, though, and not in response to the post you've quoted.

 

[Cavalicious]

1. Adelaide
2. GWS
3. Geelong
4. Western Bulldogs
5. Melbourne
6. West Coast
7. Sydney
8. St Kilda

9. Fremantle
10. Port Adelaide
11. Hawthorn
12. Carlton
13. Essendon
14. Richmond
15. Brisbane
16. Collingwood
17. Gold Coast
18. North Melbourne

 

[Blackas87]

That post was just a general comment to Trav20, though, and not in response to the post you've quoted.

I know that but it gives the vibe that any poster that puts Hawthorn free falling are wrong according you.

 

[Jobe Watson]

No one on here is interested in facts and research, it ruins their off-the-cuff uneducated statements in regards to North. Apparently we were solely reliant on Boomer and Wells last season, Petrie was our only key forward, we have traded away all our early draft picks over the last few years for Waite and Higgins and are now we are left with 22 inexperienced kids to play every week. It is because of these reasons we will be bottom 4 this year.

I think it's more to do with the fact that when your draw turned difficult this year you had a worse form line than any team in the league. North had a horrendous 2nd half of the season.

Losing two of your better players and having virtually no exciting youth coming through to replace them are just another few reasons that a lot of people, including the bookies, have North in the bottom 5.

 

[B4Bear]

I think it's more to do with the fact that when your draw turned difficuot this year you had a worse form line than any team in the league. North had a horrendous 2nd half of the season.

Losing two of your better players and having virtually no exciting youth coming through to replace them are just another few reasons that a lot of people, including the bookies, have North in the bottom 5.

Without now going to the North site, you would be lucky to name two of our 'non-exciting' youth; which begs the question 'How do you know if they are exciting or not, if you do not even know their names'.

I thought that Wood and Garner were pretty exciting myself, and that McDonald kid goes pretty well too. But hey, because you do not know their names because they were not a top 3 draft pick (and they are at North) they must be shit.

Yes our second half was horrible, so were our injuries, tough draw, and back to back 6 day breaks.

It will be a foolish team that penciles in North as a 'will win' next year.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I know that but it gives the vibe that any poster that puts Hawthorn free falling are wrong according you.

Sorry for the bad vibes.

 

[perplexed]

I'm amazed how much people think losing Firito will affect us.

 

[Shinboner roo]

I'm amazed how much people think losing Firito will affect us.

Or Petire being our only forward

 

[aussierulesrules]

No one on here is interested in facts and research, it ruins their off-the-cuff uneducated statements in regards to North. Apparently we were solely reliant on Boomer and Wells last season, Petrie was our only key forward, we have traded away all our early draft picks over the last few years for Waite and Higgins and are now we are left with 22 inexperienced kids to play every week. It is because of these reasons we will be bottom 4 this year.

What about my post that contained facts and research, such as the fact that the 5 you've lost played a combined 42 games out of a possible 45 during the 9-0 start to your season, which means you're losing almost a quarter of your best 22 (including 3 of the top 7 in your B&F!). Or the fact you fell off a cliff once you got a few injuries suggests that the depth to cover the loss of say 5 of your best 22 just isn't there?

Hawthorn have lost Mitchell, Lewis and Hill, but at least they added Mitchell, O'Meara and Vickery, whereas you guys lost Boomer, Wells, Dal Santo, Petrie and Firrito and have brought in .... Nathan Hrovat and Marley Williams....

I imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was a team that you guys don't barrack for who had a disastrous last 13 games and then lost a quarter of their best 22 and 3 of the top 7 in their B&F and only replaced them with a couple of guys who between them cost a packet of chips, you probably wouldn't be terribly bullish on their immediate prospects.

Sure if everything goes right you could do a lot better than most expect, like say Carlton did for half the year this year- especially with what Champion Data rate as the easiest draw!- but what happens for instance if you get some key injuries again? If you weren't able to handle them this year, when you still had the 5 of your best 22 that have now gone, how are you going to be able to handle them next year?

 

[Jobe Watson]

Without now going to the North site, you would be lucky to name two of our 'non-exciting' youth; which begs the question 'How do you know if they are exciting or not, if you do not even know their names'.

I thought that Wood and Garner were pretty exciting myself, and that McDonald kid goes pretty well too. But hey, because you do not know their names because they were not a top 3 draft pick (and they are at North) they must be shit.

Yes our second half was horrible, so were our injuries, tough draw, and back to back 6 day breaks.

It will be a foolish team that penciles in North as a 'will win' next year.

The fewest amount of Rising Star nominations out of any team in the league over the last 5 years says it all.

I've said before that Wood looks like a great prospect and McDonald should end up as a good player. Garner is vastly overrated by North supporters (not to mention he's hardly young anymore - he'll be 23 when the season starts and he's done **** all). There isn't much else after that. Turner, Clarke and Dumont have all shown signs but not enough to suggest that North will be able to go through this transition period without a serious decline.

 

[aussierulesrules]

It's no troll, you have the worst list in the AFL.

Having just had a look through it, it really doesn't make for attractive reading from an outside POV when you look at their 22yo and under group (ie. born in 1994 or later, so those who've had up to 4 years in the system).

Sure some of them who we've seen pretty much nothing from so far might end up having really good careers (I imagine some of them haven't had the opportunities yet, for various reasons), but the only ones that sort of jump out at me as being the types that probably every club would love to have are Luke McDonald and Ryan Clarke and even then there's certainly no guarantee they'll end up "A-graders", or anything like that.

They definitely look to me to be a team that need to hit the draft pretty hard for top-end talent in the next couple of years, ideally, or else they could just continue to be a team that sort of hovers around the middle parts of the ladder, without really seriously challenging for a flag, or really bottoming out, like Richmond continue to be.

I don't think they necessarily will, but I think it could be far from a bad thing for them to drop down to the bottom 4 next year and get themselves a top 4 pick and maybe trade out someone with value for another decent pick or two, to really help regenerate the list.

 

[augie]

GWS
Sydney
Western Bulldogs
Adelaide
West Coast
Geelong
Collingwood
St Kilda

Fremantle
Hawthorn
Richmond
Melbourne
North Melbourne
Gold Coast
Essendon
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Carlton

Rejoice everyone. Bucks is safe for another 5 years.

 

[Lsta062]

I'll do another one:

1. GWS
2. West Coast
3. Western Bulldogs
4. Sydney
5. Melbourne
6. Richmond
7. Adelaide
8. St Kilda
------------------------
9. Gold Coast
10. Essendon
11. Hawthorn
12. Fremantle
13. Geelong
14. Collingwood
15. North Melbourne
16. Brisbane
17. Carlton
18. Port Adelaide

It's hard to tell without seeing them play at least a couple of preseason matches.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Apart from it not being the exact same thing, of course.

Note: one person can't argue with themselves.

And with that, I don't think this needs to continue.

Why? Because you've been exposed?

What a joke, you made stuff up about what that guy posted to try and make yourself look better, now you want to end it because you're been found out.

Why do you get so angry about this type of thing? Why do you feel the need to be right about everything?

 

[Screen Name]

You missed Brisbane, do you have them at your vacant 15th spot on the ladder?

Absolutely not, that's a mistake on my part, Brisbane at the bottom, will edit cheers

 

[Screen Name]

I skip over anyone's ladder that has Freo above Hawthorn next year.

Don't see it as possible?

 

[Angus Young]

You sure?
Poster puts Hawthorn free falling to 15th
But this post gives off the vibe that you are telling them that they are wrong.

Poster also puts Sydney 13th

So yeah I'm giving off the vibe he is wrong as well. Sorry bout that.

 

[Trav 20]

Why? Because you've been exposed?

What a joke, you made stuff up about what that guy posted to try and make yourself look better, now you want to end it because you're been found out.

Why do you get so angry about this type of thing? Why do you feel the need to be right about everything?

Jeez you carry on about very little, Marc. I've read the thread and you're up in arms about virtually nothing.

You've targeted me before for no reason. It's relieving to know that you've got form, because you've had me scratching my head at times.

 

[Screen Name]

Nope, as I said earlier, if Hawthorn go backwards by the tune of 6 games (unlikely) and Freo improve by 6 games (possible, I think they will finish on about 9 wins, so that is 5 more), they still don't overtake Hawthorn on the ladder.

Hawthorn won a number of extremely close games last season. After losing your top two from your best and fairest (Mitchell being a MASSIVE loss) plus Hill and having Burgoyne, Hodge, Birchall and Gibson which are all right at the cliff (your board agrees with me) I can see a massive drop coming, there's no reason why it couldn't be as bad as freos this year if you get the same amount of injuries.

If Omeara and Roughead are fit and firing you will comfortably make the 8 but I don't see that happening. Titchell is a great pick up but just doesn't have the same class as the midfielders you have lost. I'm actually optimistic about the Vickery pick up for you guys I just don't think he will be enough to cover Roughead.

Fremantle have a massive scope for improvement next year and a lot of posters agree with me. Could also easily go pear shaped (yarran and Johnson for a start) but I like our chances of making the 8 given a bit of luck.

 

[theprospect]

This has probably already been done, but thought I'd have a crack and try something a little different. Essendon supporters save yourself the time and don't abuse and tell me how they're going to shock the comp and storm into the 8 ahead of St. Kilda or Melbourne, or how they'll at least finish in the top 10. It's not going to happen Best case scenario they win 10 games and finish around 13th, worst case they win 5 games and finish 17th.

1. GWS - 18-4 (72) 135%
2. Western Bulldogs - 16-6 (64) 125%
3. Sydney - 16-6 (64) 120%
4. Adelaide - 15-7 (60) 118%
5. Geelong - 15-7 (60) 110%
6. Melbourne - 15-7 (60) 107%
7. St. Kilda - 14-8 (56) 102%
8. West Coast - 13-9 (52) 110%

-------------------------------------------

9. Hawthorn - 13-9 (52) 106%
10. Port Adelaide - 13-9 (52) 104%
11. Gold Coast - 12-10 (48) 95%
12. Collingwood - 11-11 (44) 92%
13. Richmond - 10-12 (40) 88%
14. Fremantle - 10-12 (40) 83%
15. North Melbourne - 9-13 (36) 79%
16. Essendon - 9-13 (36) 77%
17. Carlton - 6-16 (24) 74%
18. Brisbane - 4-18 (16) 70%

FINALS WEEK 1: (Winners highlighted in bold)

GWS (115) v Adelaide (98)
Western Bulldogs (90) v Sydney (85)
Geelong (120) v West Coast (75)
Melbourne (82) v St. Kilda (86)

FINALS WEEK 2:

Adelaide (108) v Geelong (97)
Sydney (130) v St. Kilda (84)

FINALS WEEK 3:

GWS (105) v Sydney (90)
Western Bulldogs (110) v Adelaide (102)

GRAND FINAL:

Western Bulldogs (77) v GWS (92)

 

[Screen Name]

Doggies had more close games than us (with the only one they dropped to us early in the year, they won the rest), have just as many 30 year olds, yet you demand they are a top 2 team?

Burgyone and Hodge were both excellent in the finals series, so no reason to believe they will have a massive drop.

Another year into the likes of Brand, Burton & Sicily, 12 triple premiership players still there, along with our 3 recruits makes a pretty solid team still. Yes we lost Mitchell and Lewis, but Tom Mitchell was excellent in the finals series, with only JPK better than him. O'Meara was out there training today, so there is a good chance we'll have him ready to go from the early rounds. Word is there is a good chance that Roughy will return as well.

Fremantle recruited ok, in that they didn't pay a high price for anyone they picked up. But expecting a lot of our McCarthy after his reported issues last year might be asking too much this year. Kersten is a bit of a plodder. Hill should be a good pick up, but has saved his worst footy for Subi in his AFL career today, and Hambling, well his last 6 weeks aren't enough of a sample size to know for sure how good he'll be at Freo. Getting Fyfe back will be huge, and potentially getting Bennell on the park should be a win as well if it can be done.

But all things considered, 1 team won 17 games with a % just under 120, and were a kick away from a prelim, the other team had 4 wins and a % of 74. Freo won't make up that gap next year, bet your house on it.

Adding Cloke and Crameri to there forward line aswell as another year development in to Boyd there forward structure looks far better. Adding more consistency to an incredibly talented Stringer by moving him to the medium forward role is scary.

The injuries the dogs managed to cover is impressive aswell.

The scariest part but is the natural improvement to over half there list. Bont, Libba, Macrae, JJ, Dalhouse, Hunter, Boyd, Jong the list goes on all should be expected to improve. Comparing the improvement of Burton, Brand and Sicily is almost embarrassing compared to the bulldogs youngsters.

I didn't mention either Hamling or Kersten because in my opinion (lots disagree especially on Hamling) both are battling for best 22. Kersten is battling out with Taberner for the third tall spot (Kersten starts for mine) and Hamling is battling out with Dawson if Johnson is fit (Dawson starts for nine).

Spurr Dawson Johnson
Weller A.Pearce Ibbotson

B.Hill Fyfe S.Hill

Walters McCarthy Ballantyne
Yarran Apeness Kersten

Sandilands Neale Bennel

Mundy D.Pearce Blakely Crozier

This team has enough talent to fight for a top 8 spot if it stays fit.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Why? Because you've been exposed?

What a joke, you made stuff up about what that guy posted to try and make yourself look better, now you want to end it because you're been found out.

Why do you get so angry about this type of thing? Why do you feel the need to be right about everything?

The only thing you've exposed is your poor reading of context and your inability to let something go and just move on.

I won't be seeing your posts from here on, so for everyone else's sake let the thread get back to the discussion of predictions.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

I am not ready to make a prediction at this point as I will wait until all lists are finalised.

So far we have a few teams looking at starting 2017 with inferior squads to 2016.

It would make to long a post to go through them all at once, so I will start with one.

Hawthorn loss of Mitchell, Lewis and Hill from their best 22 along with the unavailabilty of Ceglar. Replacing with T Mitchell, O'Meara and Vickery does not seem enough. There must be large doubts on Roughead getting back on the park and they will certainly not be getting improvement from Hodge, Burgoyne, McEvoy and Gibson.
Lots to prove from younger playerswith only Sicily and Burton looking best 22. There were also signs that some of the other premiership players (Duryea, Isaac Smith and even Puopolo) are not as good without the dominant leaders. They have plenty of spots to fill and are not getting a pick before 88.

Clarkson is a great coach, but it will take a supreme effort to get them to finals.