Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[GapInIkonPark]

I think there is a balance. Clearly the Port game we introduced too many players at once and gained little from the experience.

The key benchmark to meet this year will be young players meeting/exceeding expectations. Relatively easy for first year players where all the player that got regular game time did this. I would argue that only really CC did that out of our second year players last year and the real test will be their improvement this year and how the 2017 first year players come on.

I think you are on the money Sector 7G.

Start with the ‘older players’ who were in our best 22 at the end of 2017:

Kreuzer, Murphy, Ed, Simpson, Casboult, Wright, Thomas and Jones (8) and assume no injuries ...

Which leaves 14 spots in the 22 of which Cripps takes 1 and Docherty would, apart from injury, take another.

With Docherty out, there are 13 spots and then extra spots for whoever of the ‘older players’ gets pushed out ...
and Thomas might be pushed out early, perhaps Wright as the year goes on, perhaps Casboult if McKay comes on ...

So I don’t think we’ll see a repeat with our latest batch of draftees as last year where Pickett, Marchbank, SPS and Macreadie played round 1, Willa round 3, Fisher round 4 and Polson the Port game ...

So I think we’ll see Lang and Kennedy in the 22, and Marchbank and Pickett, all of our 2015 draftees (Weiters, McKay, Charlie, Cuningham and Jack), 3 of our 2016 draftees (SPS, Fisher and Willa) with Macreadie very close ... and for all of these players there will be benchmarks and things to work on to show improvement ...

And Dow, O’Brien and Garlett will earn their spots ...

 

[skadoosh]

This is our best lineup age demographic wise..

Plowman(23) Jones(27) Byrne(23)
O'Shea(25) Marchbank(21) Shaw(25)
Mullett(25) Cripps(23) Cuningham(21)
Pickett(21) Casboult(27) Garlett(21)
Wright(27) Curnow(21) Kruezer(28)

Lobbe(28) Murphy(30) Kennedy(21)

Ed(28) Kerridge(24) Lamb(25) Lang(22)

Every player aged between 21 and 30 at the start of next season. Doesn't look too bad if we have this as the foundation of the side. Puts us in the position where we don't 'have' to play youngsters who aren't ready.

Rotate SPS, Silvagni, Weitering, Williamson, Simpson, Fisher, McKay, Dow, O'Brien, Polson, Macreadie, Kerr and there is a solid team emerging.

If fit, I’d expect Samo, Silvagni, Weitering, Williamson and Fisher to play every game.

 

[My name geoff]

If fit, I’d expect Samo, Silvagni, Weitering, Williamson and Fisher to play every game.

Agree. Just saying that worst case scenario, we have a solid 21-30 y.o. team who will be ready to go week in week out.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Again you base it on short term results. Correct me if I am wrong, has SOS and Bolts been at the club for the last 2 years or 4? If you or anyone else can't see that we are headed in the right direction, perhaps you come back in a couple of years when we achieve an "expected" win/loss ratio that satisfies the ego

To be fair Arr0w ... our "short term" poor results have been at a 15 year low mate ...... until recently. Although if you measure a football team by say finals finishes or ladder positions .... (most team sports you do that). We have a whole generation in Australia that has only known Carlton as an abject failure through their child and teen years.

It will be hard to gain their support.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

We are getting our s**t together ladies and gents and Rome wasn't built overnight. We as supporters (fair dinkum)
ones will endure because we couldn't barrack for anyone else and I firmly see light at the end of this tunnel.
There is a lot of passion on here from what I'm reading and I agree a lot with both. There is no set way to build a list and hopefully win a flag but you do need luck and you have to do the basics well. WE are doing half already.

 

[Cutz]

Name one?

Michael Tuck played in the seconds for years before earning a spot in the firsts.

Mitchell at Hawthorn did the same.

On SM-G935F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

To be fair Arr0w ... our "short term" poor results have been at a 15 year low mate ...... until recently. Although if you measure a football team by say finals finishes or ladder positions .... (most team sports you do that). We have a whole generation in Australia that has only known Carlton as an abject failure through their child and teen years.

It will be hard to gain their support.

True, it will be. Hopefully they too see we are heading in the right direction

 

[LanceRomance]

True, it will be. Hopefully they too see we are heading in the right direction

Yes in the meantime the munchkins will get sick of seeing their parents team losing and start going for Richmond and essendon.

Good strategy

 

[Arr0w]

Yes in the meantime the munchkins will get sick of seeing their parents team losing and start going for Richmond and essendon.

Good strategy

Enlighten me Lance, what would your strategy be apart whinging?

While you are at it, what do you believe is an acceptable number of wins for next year?

 

[LanceRomance]

Enlighten me Lance, what would your strategy be apart whinging?

While you are at it, what do you believe is an acceptable number of wins for next year?

You spelt winning as whinging.

That is the strategy. To win games.

More than 8 wins please.

 

[Arr0w]

You spelt winning as whinging.

That is the strategy. To win games.

More than 8 wins please.

Perhaps I should have used whining in your case

So all this debate despite me suggesting it could be 7-9 wins. Staggering Lance

 

[LanceRomance]

Perhaps I should have used whining in your case

So all this debate despite me suggesting it could be 7-9 wins. Staggering Lance

Yes.

The difference is that you seem to think we can wear the losses again... I don't think there is much patience left.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes.

The difference is that you seem to think we can wear the losses again... I don't think there is much patience left.

No Lance, I am a realist. I know exactly how pathetic our leaders were, List Management, Recruiting and Senior Management, prior to the last 2 years.

 

[LanceRomance]

No Lance, I am a realist. I know exactly how pathetic our leaders were, List Management, Recruiting and Senior Management, prior to the last 2 years.

And I am a realist and say that there is low tolerance for another year of developing without winning enough games..

 

[thylacine60]

we run out of patience at our peril - after a flag drought of 23 years, who gives a * whether it is 1 or 2 more years before we are in the 8 and strongly competitive? long as it's not 3 ffs..........

 

[Captain Cripps]

Couldn't see us beating Sydney and GWS last season or Geelong the year before. We will drop games we should win and win games we are expected to loose.

People seem to forget that Brisbane have lost Rockliff who had a good season and will be a big hole in the midfield. Will be interested to see how Hodge goes, as I thought he looked cooked last year. Beams is not the most durable player. If he goes missing it puts a lot of pressure on Zorko.

Robbo is back though
Miss the Mitch

 

[Captain Cripps]

You spelt winning as whinging.

That is the strategy. To win games.

More than 8 wins please.

Pending injuries
10-12 for me is a pass mark

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

The buzzword is "Endure"

 

[CJMB]

All this talk of talent and the greatness of SoS but I feel he has missed a trick. I don't see any Bitcoin at Carlton.

If he had of spotted Bitcoin in January, we could have been buying Collingwood by now and deregistering them.

Or perhaps he has which is why we recorded a profit (while Collingwood recorded a huge loss?...)

 

[Metalcrusher]

we run out of patience at our peril - after a flag drought of 23 years, who gives a **** whether it is 1 or 2 more years before we are in the 8 and strongly competitive? long as it's not 3 ffs..........

Whilst I appreciate that was 2 parts truth and one part sarcasm........ there will be a limit to continually finishing bottom 4. It will not be written as a club mantra, but it will definitely be quietly spoken about behind closed doors. Does anyone seriously think a board will not set internal expectations to be at X point in X time??

I understand SOSMLG is publicly saying its now no longer a reset but development year and maybe next year.

But do not for one minute kid yourself that there is a not a year target, linked to a ladder OR win finish number somewhere in the conversation.

That is just delusional.

 

[thylacine60]

I defend BF posters rights to be delusional and will fight to the death their further rights to denial, idiocy, non-acceptance and exhausted apathy.

 

[passmark]

Pending injuries
10-12 for me is a pass mark

Seems a little high and I know what i'm talking about.

 

[Nori]

we run out of patience at our peril - after a flag drought of 23 years, who gives a **** whether it is 1 or 2 more years before we are in the 8 and strongly competitive? long as it's not 3 ffs..........

I'm pretty sure that Bolts cares. At least I hope he does FFS.

 

[Nori]

I defend BF posters right to be delusional and will fight to the death their further rights to denial, idiocy, non-acceptance and exhausted apathy.

Thanks for having my back.

 

[Captain Cripps]

Seems a little high and I know what i'm talking about.

The old saying why aim for 8 wins when aim to win every game and get an overall better result
No professional should ever go out not to win and if so then better to give that career up