Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HARKER]

Yeah, I get that - but Kreuzer + Cripps + Hopper + Weitering is just asking to get murdered by quicker mids. Doesn't matter if Willo and Kelly are lurking around, as soon as the opposition found a metre of space we'd be chasing tail.

I like the idea of rotating Weiters on-ball a few times a game though, just not the idea of using him predominantly in the middle. Needs to be either a defender or a forward for 80% of the game, and mix things up when we need a change.

Good luck matching up on Weitering, when he gets that motor running.
Being smart & creative is better than running flat out with nowhere to go.

We should have the runners behind the ball also, in Byrne, Docherty & Pickett.
Get first hands on the ball via Cripps & Hopper (or the like) and we're going to look pretty quick.

 

[therubbernub]

Just exactly what is our midfield structure needs for next year?
I am happy to be corrected but this is how I see our existing

1 Cripps: Inside, extractor
2 Gibbs: Hybrid/swing. Plays inside/outside. Evasive without being breakaway
3 Murphy: Mainly outside (idealy)
4 SPS: Inside/evasive: Playing inside atm, poise and tenacity. Can he play outside? Not express.
5 Cuningham: Inside/breakaway hybrid: Has pace to break away.
6 Fisher: Outside/creative; Sets up play
7 Ed: Inside/Outside : Has strength and fitness so can play inside or outside.
8 Boekhorst: Outside
9 Thomas: Outside
10 Kerridge: Inside/outside: Poor mans Ed Curnow

Which type of Mid do we need to bring in? Kelly seems inside/outside, so could fill a role for both needs

 

[8Special K]

I would be asking the question of St Kilda as to whether they are interested in trading up to Pick 2 or even 1. Their projected picks at this stage look like being around the 7 & 8 mark, a rough draft top 10 at this stage is looking like: Rayner, Dow, Cerra, LDU, Constable, Brander, Coffield, Garner, Stephenson & Brayshaw.

So would we prefer one of Cerra, Dow, Rayner or two of Coffield, Garner, Stephenson, Brayshaw? I would take two players over one in this draft every day of the week. Hopefully SOS agrees and the saints really like a player near the top of the draft order, i'd say Rayner is one who would really appeal to them. It could end up working heavily in our favour.

Rayner is th petracca the saints missed out on. I reckon they'd jump at that

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Lynch is a free agent, no trade required.

GC will be worse than us next year, so any pick we could offer in a trade would be worse than the FA compo they'd receive.

i would argue they have more improvement in their list then we do next season. Also going on their history I think they are much more likely to match an offer try and get more out of us and then pick up a FA themselves

 

[Wickzki]

Do not think for a second that we'll end up with multiple top ten picks this year.

Much more likely to try and move for first round picks next year even if it hurts us next season

 

[DangerousD]

1. I said he turns 27 the year we would get him which he will. He will turn 27 in the same month as the Grand Final
2. I don't think we will. We will probably only add two quality players to our side in that time. Lynch and pick 2 this season.
Best case Cas gets us band 3 (unlikely) and we can turn that into something good. Gibbs will be a one in one out which is unlikely to be much of an upgrade. We also wouldn't have a first round pick next season because it would have to be traded for Lynch. We would still have a crap midfield.
3. If he is coming to a bottom 4 side then we would be the highest bidder.

He will turn 27 on the last day in October so his whole first season with us he will be 26, I'm not sure if it was you but i was quoting someone who it seems was using the fact he was 27 in 2019 as saying he was too old for us which is ridiculous.
If we were able to get him in without having to trade which is very possible if we don't bring in someone on big money this year then we would have hopefully brought in someone elite with pick 2 this year, possibly Hopper or someone like him, any Cas compo and picks next draft.

 

[Arr0w]

Just exactly what is our midfield structure needs for next year?
I am happy to be corrected but this is how I see our existing

1 Cripps: Inside, extractor
2 Gibbs: Hybrid/swing. Plays inside/outside. Evasive without being breakaway
3 Murphy: Mainly outside (idealy)
4 SPS: Inside/evasive: Playing inside atm, poise and tenacity. Can he play outside? Not express.
5 Cuningham: Inside/breakaway hybrid: Has pace to break away.
6 Fisher: Outside/creative; Sets up play
7 Ed: Inside/Outside : Has strength and fitness so can play inside or outside.
8 Boekhorst: Outside
9 Thomas: Outside
10 Kerridge: Inside/outside: Poor mans Ed Curnow

Which type of Mid do we need to bring in? Kelly seems inside/outside, so could fill a role for both needs

All new additional midfielders to have elite foot skills

 

[DangerousD]

Do not think for a second that we'll end up with multiple top ten picks this year.

Much more likely to try and move for first round picks next year even if it hurts us next season

No chance of this happening imo, SOS and Bolts are desperate to get young talent in now and know way will delay that by another season on the back of a draft being perceived as shallow.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Ya, despite next year being a supposed 'super draft', we need talent within 4-5 years age difference of the senior veterans (Docherty, Plowman, Cripps) and we need it now.

When the aforementioned are in their late peak (29-30), we need a big group of talented guys in early peak (25-26).

Hence the emphasis on clustering talent in the 18-23 age group 'right now.'

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

He will turn 27 on the last day in October so his whole first season with us he will be 26, I'm not sure if it was you but i was quoting someone who it seems was using the fact he was 27 in 2019 as saying he was too old for us which is ridiculous.
If we were able to get him in without having to trade which is very possible if we don't bring in someone on big money this year then we would have hopefully brought in someone elite with pick 2 this year, possibly Hopper or someone like him, any Cas compo and picks next draft.

If we don't have to trade for him then I'm all for chasing him but I do think that would rule us out of any chance of getting Shiel.
The thing is I just can't see them not matching. They would be willing to pay him more then we are and no doubt he is getting AFL sponsorship ATM

 

[Soapy V]

All new additional midfielders to have elite foot skills

Exactly. Polson & Charlie will also be a big part of our midfield in 2018.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Just exactly what is our midfield structure needs for next year?
I am happy to be corrected but this is how I see our existing

1 Cripps: Inside, extractor
2 Gibbs: Hybrid/swing. Plays inside/outside. Evasive without being breakaway
3 Murphy: Mainly outside (idealy)
4 SPS: Inside/evasive: Playing inside atm, poise and tenacity. Can he play outside? Not express.
5 Cuningham: Inside/breakaway hybrid: Has pace to break away.
6 Fisher: Outside/creative; Sets up play
7 Ed: Inside/Outside : Has strength and fitness so can play inside or outside.
8 Boekhorst: Outside
9 Thomas: Outside
10 Kerridge: Inside/outside: Poor mans Ed Curnow

Which type of Mid do we need to bring in? Kelly seems inside/outside, so could fill a role for both needs

Cripps - inside/extractor
SPS - inside/outside
Cuningham - inside/outside, breakaway
Gibbs - inside/outside, versatile
Curnow - inside/outside, negating
Fisher - outside, creative
Murphy - outside, creative

Thomas/Kerridge/Boekhorst/Graham - depth

Reckon we need another player who can get in and under and come out with the ball, because Cripps can't do it for the entire game.
Need to consider Gibbs leaving, so a versatile midfielder would be handy.
Murphy is an injury away from being shot, so another creative outside type would be good (maybe Polson/Pickett fit the bill here).

Beyond that, what we lack is damaging ball users. We've got guys to win the ball, we've got guys who can set up outside players, but we don't have quality outside players to actually make the most of those opportunities, which is why we have to go backwards to go forward, all our good users are behind the ball.

Willo on a wing is a good option, perhaps Byrne spending time in the guts as well. But drafting a couple of good outside leaning mids who don't mind getting their hands dirty every now and then, as well as another in-and-under type ,that's the "next step" in improving our side.

Options via draft or trade:

Coffield/Balic = Gibbs replacement
Stephenson/Whitfield = damaging outside mid
Brayshaw/Kelly = damaging inside/outside mid
Worpel/Hopper = extractor

Kelly for Pick 1/2, Worpel or Hopper for Casboult pick, Whitfield for Gibbs pick, Balic with a late pick?
or
Coffield and Stephenson by downgrading Pick 1/2, Worpel or Hopper for Casboult pick, Brayshaw with Gibbs pick, Balic with a late pick?

The second option gets us an extra player, but we miss the elite option in Kelly. Might be out of our hands anyway, depending on what Kelly decides.

Allows Doc, Willo and Byrne to predominantly play their preferred positions and rotate through the middle at times.
Allows Charlie to become a dominant CHF.
Give Polson and Pickett their chance to claim Murphy's spot in the next year or two.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Just exactly what is our midfield structure needs for next year?
I am happy to be corrected but this is how I see our existing

1 Cripps: Inside, extractor
2 Gibbs: Hybrid/swing. Plays inside/outside. Evasive without being breakaway
3 Murphy: Mainly outside (idealy)
4 SPS: Inside/evasive: Playing inside atm, poise and tenacity. Can he play outside? Not express.
5 Cuningham: Inside/breakaway hybrid: Has pace to break away.
6 Fisher: Outside/creative; Sets up play
7 Ed: Inside/Outside : Has strength and fitness so can play inside or outside.
8 Boekhorst: Outside
9 Thomas: Outside
10 Kerridge: Inside/outside: Poor mans Ed Curnow

Which type of Mid do we need to bring in? Kelly seems inside/outside, so could fill a role for both needs

I think need to start planning for 2 years from now with our midfield. Forget Ed, Murphy, Gibbs and throw kitchen sink at Kelly and Hopper

R: Kreuzer
1 Cripps: Inside, extractor
2 Kelly: Gibbs role
3 Hopper: Second extractor
4 SPS: Hybrid role
5 Cuningham: Next midfielder (Mitch Duncan-type role)

That's our main 6 rotation!
Midfield is set: Kreuzer, Cripps, Kelly, Hopper, SPS, Cuningham
Backline is set (Weitering, Marchbank, Jones, Plowman, Byrne, Docherty), with guys like Docherty and Byrne can rotate through mid
Forwardline is potentially set (Curnow/McKay/Pickett/SOS/Wright/Fisher), with Fisher and Pickett can rotate through mid

Find a decent bench (from):
Williamson (lock)
Polson
MacReadi (that utility-type player would be nice coming off the bench)
Kerridge (I hope he can grow into the Ed Curnow role where he tags and learns his limitations)
Draft Picks

 

[Neadsy83]

3 midfielders, 1 pacey half back/winger, small forward and a ruck/forward.

Pick 2(draft), Hopper, Balic, Saad, Matera and Redpath.

This is all I'm expecting in this trade period. Anything more and I'd be stoked.

I would be more than happy with haul, pretty much covers most of our deficiencies for now. We can keep adding to the midfield in 2018/19.

 

[Neadsy83]

Not a bad option, if the draft was to be held today, so much more to play out to see how the potential draftees finish the season

Not sure the Saints would be happy to exchange 2 picks in the top 10 for pick 2 alone

We would probable need to kick in a later pick, maybe a 3rd rounder? Who knows at this stage..

 

[Soapy V]

Cripps - inside/extractor
SPS - inside/outside
Cuningham - inside/outside, breakaway
Gibbs - inside/outside, versatile
Curnow - inside/outside, negating
Fisher - outside, creative
Murphy - outside, creative

Thomas/Kerridge/Boekhorst/Graham - depth

Reckon we need another player who can get in and under and come out with the ball, because Cripps can't do it for the entire game.
Need to consider Gibbs leaving, so a versatile midfielder would be handy.
Murphy is an injury away from being shot, so another creative outside type would be good (maybe Polson/Pickett fit the bill here).

Beyond that, what we lack is damaging ball users. We've got guys to win the ball, we've got guys who can set up outside players, but we don't have quality outside players to actually make the most of those opportunities, which is why we have to go backwards to go forward, all our good users are behind the ball.

Willo on a wing is a good option, perhaps Byrne spending time in the guts as well. But drafting a couple of good outside leaning mids who don't mind getting their hands dirty every now and then, as well as another in-and-under type ,that's the "next step" in improving our side.

Coffield = Gibbs replacement
Stephenson = damaging outside mid
Brayshaw = damaging inside/outside mid
Hopper/Worpel = extractor

Allows Doc, Willo and Byrne to predominantly play their preferred positions and rotate through the middle at times.
Allows Charlie to become a dominant CHF.
Give Polson and Pickett their chance to claim Murphy's spot in the next year or two.

Ball use of Byrne Williamson Docherty & Weitering out of defence is exciting.

I have no doubt Charlie will be a midfielder in the Kouta/Fyfe type. To good not to. I expect Polson to step up and add Hopper & Balic and it looks good. A fit Cripps and then Pick 2 and it's even better. SPS & Pickett on the wings could really cause some damage.

 

[therubbernub]

I have no doubt Charlie will be a midfielder i

Its tempting to slot him in, but what does that do to our forward line if Levi leaves which seems on the cards. harry did a few nice things but he was allowed some freedom because charlie and levi were the main worries for defenders.

 

[Arr0w]

We would probable need to kick in a later pick, maybe a 3rd rounder? Who knows at this stage..

It would take more than that, another late 1st or early 2nd

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Exactly. Polson & Charlie will also be a big part of our midfield in 2018.

Charlie will mostly be playing forward. Think he will be our no 1 man up forward next year.

 

[Arr0w]

Charlie will mostly be playing forward. Think he will be our no 1 man up forward next year.

Charlie's attributes will be far too important to be a permanent forward. IMO as he develops, he will spend more time up the field, especially with his elite running ability

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Charlie's attributes will be far too important to be a permanent forward. IMO as he develops, he will spend more time up the field, especially with his elite running ability

So who exactly is playing forward then? If we dont kick goals we dont win games. Everyone saying Casboult is gone if Charlie is up the ground where are we getting our goals from?

I think Bolton see's Charlie as a forward since Cripps and Ed have been injured he has still used him as a forward even though there has been plenty of opportunities to throw him into the midfield.

 

[Soapy V]

Charlie's attributes will be far too important to be a permanent forward. IMO as he develops, he will spend more time up the field, especially with his elite running ability

Bolton is already starting to use him more and more through the midfield. It's where they see him and importantly he will be elite

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Bolton is already starting to use him more and more through the midfield. It's where they see him and importantly he will be elite

I think we can all agree Charlie will mostly play forward next year. Its were Bolton knows he will be elite.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Charlie's attributes will be far too important to be a permanent forward. IMO as he develops, he will spend more time up the field, especially with his elite running ability

Agree but in small stints for mine taking Charlie out of the forwardline too much would be like playing Cripps too much up forward just too important to the structures . Unless of course we get lucky and in a few years Kerr and Bsos Mckay are braining it up forward and we have so many options its a necessity to move someone to the middle more .

 

[Blue__Balls]

You're both wrong.

Charlie has the potential to be an elite key defender, reckon we'll see him used at full back next year and Bolts will trial Jones up forward. Has the strength and athleticism to be an elite key forward.