Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[gab213]

Ok what about Jezaleunko or Kernahan any interest?

As examples of legends who gave their all for the club, sure. In my opinion, they are the two greatest players to have ever represented this club. Jezza was just a brilliant player in so many different positions and Sticks was the greatest on field leader we ever have had. I know others will chime in with Big Nick and Doully, who were legendary players in their own rights but I have those two just shading them.

 

[DEliades]

HSun reporting that if cas leaves, we'll get pick 18 in return. Pretty handy return albeit we'd be light up top if we can't lure redpath away. The article also indicates that cas has taken more marks, kicked more goals and won more HOs than Reid in the last 3 years. Puts the criticism into perspective although he cost us against the scum

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Why do you exactly need a Josh Kelly? You can way easier get a great midfielder than get a genuine spear head and Josh Kennedy is a forward line in himself judd won a brownlow yes but Kennedy has won morni Coleman medals not gonna argue with you about it just saying we could easily get good midfield depth without throwing that much money at it or using pick 2

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Why Josh Kelly? He's an elite mid that can play inside and outside with great skills and that's what builds premiership success. We have Cripps as an elite mid, SPS potentially. That is WAY too thin to have only Cripps and a kid in his second season with an aging Murphy and no Gibbs it will not bode well at all.

Let me ask you this then, WCE have Kennedy, Swans have Franklin, GC have Lynch, Bombers have Daniher when's the last time they won a flag? In fact 2 of those teams are struggling to hold a spot in the top 8, one is out of the race and the other only got going when their midfield started clicking.

You can put 3 Josh Kennedy's in the forward line but if the mids are no good, then they're not going to be able to kick bags of goals because the delivery is going to suck.

We also have plenty of cash to be able to front load his contract big time. So the money shouldn't be a concern for us.

 

[gab213]

Yes, but Blues90 was saying that he'd rather splash the cash out on a key forward. For a mature bodied forward to take the heat off the kids, we wouldn't need to spend big money on a player of that type.

Elite midfield will generate premierships. Tell me the last team that won a flag without an elite midfield. I can tell you the Hawks didn't have an elite forward line and neither did the Dogs last year. It's all about the midfield.

Ok, guess I should have gone further back through the discussion lol. Of course, without an elite midfield, you won't get far. Hawthorn's forward line was pretty solid even if you didn't consider it elite, as far as the dogs go they may just prove to be one out of the box.
My concern with the forwards we have isn't as much to do with where they will be in a few years time but how they manage right now without a mature, big bodied player alongside them. Even so, I wouldn't be splashing out the big dollars for this type of player anyway right now. I think it's easier to build the elite midfield. If it's not Kelly, it will be somebody else. I wouldn't be unhappy for us to get Kelly as long as it is not at a ridiculous cost.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

If we get pick 1 this year and Kelly nominates us i would be tempted to give GWS our 2018 first pick. So we keep pick 1 this year and get the best young player and also grab Kelly.

I like this. I don't think GWS would bite though as they have no 1st this year and would see this as a golden opportunity, however, if we could get them to take 2018 first then we could trade Gibbs next year and still be in the first round potentially.

 

[Andypooh23]

I don't think we need a stop gap experienced forward to 'Protect' and aid our young forwards.
All SOS needs to do is concentrate on the midfield and once our list has naturally grown and can perform the gameplan that Bolts wants the forward line will take care of itself.

Remember that Roughead and Franklin took Hawthorn into the 2nd week of the finals in 2007 which was their 3rd year of footy and they only had Ben Dixon as a experienced forward.

 

[Bluey24]

Still feel its too early for us to land a big fish such as Kelly

It'll cost us too much in terms of draft picks, and to a much lesser extent, cash.........

Hopper is exactly the type of player we should be targeting. Forget Kelly IMO - more of this

 

[My name geoff]

Casboult > pick 18 > Sicily
Pick 2 > Richmond pick 14, pick 15
Pick 15 > Hopper
Pick 14 > Whitfield
Pick 54 > Balic


Out: Casboult, Pick 2, Pick 54
In: Hopper, Whitfield, Balic, Sicily

Weitering Jones Plowman
Docherty Marchbank Byrne
Whitfield Cripps Murphy
Silvagni Curnow Sicily
SPS McKay Wright

Kruezer Gibbs Hopper

Cuningham Williamson Fisher Curnow

 

[gab213]

I don't think we need a stop gap experienced forward to 'Protect' and aid our young forwards.
All SOS needs to do is concentrate on the midfield and once our list has naturally grown and can perform the gameplan that Bolts wants the forward line will take care of itself.

Remember that Roughead and Franklin took Hawthorn into the 2nd week of the finals in 2007 which was their 3rd year of footy and they only had Ben Dixon as a experienced forward.

Sure, but when the 2018 season begins, Curnow and McKay will probably have played 27 games and 2 games respectively, Franklin and Roughead had played 56 and 58 games by then, that's still a fair bit of difference in experience. I still contend that we need a more experienced player in our forward line next year.

 

[gandaal]

Casboult > pick 18 > Sicily
Pick 2 > Richmond pick 14, pick 15
Pick 15 > Hopper
Pick 14 > Whitfield
Pick 54 > Balic


Out: Casboult, Pick 2, Pick 54
In: Hopper, Whitfield, Balic, Sicily

Weitering Jones Plowman
Docherty Marchbank Byrne
Whitfield Cripps Murphy
Silvagni Curnow Sicily
SPS McKay Wright

Kruezer Gibbs Hopper

Cuningham Williamson Fisher Curnow

Pick 18 for Sicily? I think I might vomit.

 

[Arr0w]

Why Josh Kelly? He's an elite mid that can play inside and outside with great skills and that's what builds premiership success. We have Cripps as an elite mid, SPS potentially. That is WAY too thin to have only Cripps and a kid in his second season with an aging Murphy and no Gibbs it will not bode well at all.

Let me ask you this then, WCE have Kennedy, Swans have Franklin, GC have Lynch, Bombers have Daniher when's the last time they won a flag? In fact 2 of those teams are struggling to hold a spot in the top 8, one is out of the race and the other only got going when their midfield started clicking.

You can put 3 Josh Kennedy's in the forward line but if the mids are no good, then they're not going to be able to kick bags of goals because the delivery is going to suck.

We also have plenty of cash to be able to front load his contract big time. So the money shouldn't be a concern for us.

It's not just about the midfield, you need quality on every line.

Debating any other midfield target, apart from Kelly, with you seems pointless, as you are so fixated. But if Kelly does re-sign with GWS, who would you consider to be worthy, of trading in?

 

[I AM CARLTON]

I don't think we need a stop gap experienced forward to 'Protect' and aid our young forwards.
All SOS needs to do is concentrate on the midfield and once our list has naturally grown and can perform the gameplan that Bolts wants the forward line will take care of itself.

Remember that Roughead and Franklin took Hawthorn into the 2nd week of the finals in 2007 which was their 3rd year of footy and they only had Ben Dixon as a experienced forward.

Didn't the Hawks also have the Shotgun as well???

 

[Dominator_7]

Agree. Happy to load up on kids one last year, and then hit the free agency market hard as of next year.

 

[passmark]

The Giants played better with a smaller forward line.

Would be nice to get Lobb.

 

[Red Bull]

You could have said the same about Marchbank and Pickett?
And Treloar?

They wanted and held out for our pick 5 for Marchbank .
Marchbank was out of contract
They didn't get pick 5 ...

 

[My name geoff]

Pick 18 for Sicily? I think I might vomit.

Why? I think he would complement our young forward line perfectly.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Ok so here's my latest:

If Lions win 2 games and we finish bottom

We keep Pick 1 and draft best young kid
We offer GWS our round 1 pick from 2018 for Hopper
We keep Gibbs
We walk Kelly to pre season draft and grab him with pick 1

Our midfield next year Cripps Kelly Gibbs Hopper Murphy SPS Cuningham Fisher & 2017 no 1 draft pick.

 

[katmanblue]

Still feel its too early for us to land a big fish such as Kelly

It'll cost us too much in terms of draft picks, and to a much lesser extent, cash.........

Hopper is exactly the type of player we should be targeting. Forget Kelly IMO - more of this

I agree, but Kelly is pretty juicy.

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[bluemahogany]

Why? I think he would complement our young forward line perfectly.

He'd be worth no more than a pick in the 30's

 

[Blue Baggers]

Why is everyone trying to come up with over night fixes? We aren't winning the flag next year!

 

[My name geoff]

He'd be worth no more than a pick in the 30's

Would Hawthorn let him go for a pick in the 30s? I doubt it

 

[bluemahogany]

Would Hawthorn let him go for a pick in the 30s? I doubt it

If he wanted to leave and was out of contract they would

 

[RudyBlue]

Sure, but when the 2018 season begins, Curnow and McKay will probably have played 27 games and 2 games respectively, Franklin and Roughead had played 56 and 58 games by then, that's still a fair bit of difference in experience. I still contend that we need a more experienced player in our forward line next year.

At the beginning of 07, Franklin and Roughead had played 34 and 36 games respectively.

At the beginning of next year Charlie (Franklin) will likely have 27 games and Weiters 42 (Roughead).

These guys, with a good pre-season, could explode next year.

 

[BlueTongue]

HSun reporting that if cas leaves, we'll get pick 18 in return. Pretty handy return albeit we'd be light up top if we can't lure redpath away. The article also indicates that cas has taken more marks, kicked more goals and won more HOs than Reid in the last 3 years. Puts the criticism into perspective although he cost us against the scum

Won't Josh Kelly (if we get him) cancel out the Cas Pick 18?
From the AFL Free Agency webpage;

COMPENSATION
A club that has a net loss of players transferring to/from other clubs as free agents in one transfer period is entitled to compensation via National Draft picks allocated by the AFL.

 

[bluemahogany]

Won't Josh Kelly (if we get him) cancel out the Cas Pick 18?
From the AFL Free Agency webpage;

Kelly isn't a Free Agent