Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[LordLucifer]

You make some good points. We cannot afford to stay down the bottom for much longer.
We already are struggling with membership numbers and we will have lost an entire generation of supporters with us being down for so long.
Player retention will become an even bigger issue as will attracting players to our club.
We all agree we needed a rebuild but we have to start winning games soon.
Allowing our good players to continue to leave and not putting up much of a fight to retain them is not the answer either.

A number of questions for you :

(a) who are all these "good" players who continue to leave ??

(b) why can we not afford to stay down the bottom much longer when we have shown over the past 20-years that bringing in one-off messiahs has not got us anywhere ??

(c) Why won't we start winning games as the new young players develop physically & mentally ??

(d) What is the ****ing hurry ??

 

[Iamcarlton]

Does it?

Seems like hitting on two drafts and then topping up with guns has won most races in the last few years

Agree if we bring in Kelly and Hopper this year on top of our last 2 draft and trade periods SOS has done one hell of a job for our club . The rest is now up to the coaches and players .

 

[Robertio]

Remembering Whitfield is contracted so it's more likely to be Kelly & Hopper, I think it's overs considering we may have pick 1!

If we end up with pick 1 maybe we ask for a little more.

 

[LordLucifer]

Does it?

Seems like hitting on two drafts and then topping up with guns has won most races in the last few years

Only hitting two drafts when you have one of the worst lists in the competition is not the answer.

What's the freakin' hurry ??

Do you want genuine sustained success or another decade of yo-yo-ing between 6th & 14th ??

 

[I AM CARLTON]

So, all going as it is, we finish last, get a Priority Pick, trade Gibbs & lose Cas as a FA, we have 4 picks in the top 20 by Monday 9.01am of Tradeapollooza.

Yeah?

I personally think we are no chance to get a priority pick but i think we are a big chance to have pick 1.

 

[rp84]

This feels like a Hilary vs Donald debate. Neither side will convince the other.. both sides think the other is insane. Tempted to just wait til trade week is done

 

[LordLucifer]

I don't care as it makes sense to me.
GWS want players and maybe they'd be happy to take our firsts off us, if they had senior players lined up from elsewhere.

If we are to be dealing with GWS, don't bank on anything happening in the first few days.
Reckon SOS would be happy to wait until the 11th hour.......again.

Trading the captain makes absolutely no sense and you know it especially if he didn't instigate the move.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Only hitting two drafts when you have one of the worst lists in the competition is not the answer.

What's the freakin' hurry ??

Do you want genuine sustained success or another decade of yo-yo-ing between 6th & 14th ??

On the other hand its most likely unrealistic to think any club is going to continually brain every draft and trade period they enter into .
So if there are players of this quality if indeed they are interested in coming thats not something you ignore imo .

 

[HARKER]

Only hitting two drafts when you have one of the worst lists in the competition is not the answer.

What's the freakin' hurry ??

Do you want genuine sustained success or another decade of yo-yo-ing between 6th & 14th ??

It's not what you do, but the way that you do it.

If we see that we've reeled in 8-9 players that will form part of the future (2018/9) best 22, why not take advantage of topping things up with ready to go talent and by that I don't mean in one year alone. We have no idea what seeds have been sewn for next year already. Bigger picture.

 

[Omega Blue]

It's a good deal. Very similar to Judd deal with hopper (worse out of him and whitfield) being an upgrade on Armfield.

Judd and Armfield (pick 46) for pick 3 (Masten), Kennedy (pick 3) and pick 20 (Notte)

Kelly and Hopper for pick 1(2), 2018 first rounder (pick 3) and Casboult compensation (grade 3 pick 21ish)

 

[rp84]

Only hitting two drafts when you have one of the worst lists in the competition is not the answer.

What's the freakin' hurry ??

Do you want genuine sustained success or another decade of yo-yo-ing between 6th & 14th ??

I think its overly alarmist to think if we bring in two great players for 3 picks we are dooming the future. It's insane, actually.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

2018 first for Hopper? No thanks. It's a likely top 5 pick and trading future firsts is fraught with danger. A few injuries to key players will see us struggle to win games next year. Our improvement for next year is hard to guage.

PSD stuff is just fanciful.

Yeah fair enough lets keep 2018 firar rounder but if both Kelly and Hopper did nominate us it might be hard to get both. I still dont mind the idea of the pre season draft it would force GWS to accept things on our terms or they get nothing.

 

[HARKER]

Trading the captain makes absolutely no sense and you know it especially if he didn't instigate the move.

You make someone an offer (make someone else make that offer) that's too good to refuse. It's business.

 

[LordLucifer]

If we finish last priority pick discussions should 100% be on the table. **** being NOBLE the AFL are corrupt, as proven by their incessant pushing of the drug cheats on us - see James Hird's presentation of the norm smith.

They have no morals. We shouldnt concern ourselves with them either. Demand the pick

The likelihood of any club being given a priority pick ever again is as remote as Elvis making a comeback.

 

[SafeAsMilk]

I'd still want to draft an elite mid with our first pick (this year or next) ON TOP of Kelly and Hopper/Whitfield.

It could be the last top 3 pick we have for a while.

 

[1981]

Don't like that deal.

Kelly for our pick 1 is a fair deal on its own.

Try and engineer a trade where we get Hopper for Cas Comp pick 18. Maybe we add a sweetener such as 2018 second.

Keep 2018 first.

Just stupid to offload future first. Could well be pick 1 again.

I know Kelly is good but he's not worth x2 pick 1s. No way. Not a fan of giving up two super early picks for just x1 player. We lack depth, we can't afford to dish off picks so easily.

Pick 1 for Kelly else we take Raynar. And get Hopper using 18 and negotiate a sweetener that doesn't cost the farm.

The other thing amiss in this deal, which let's face it sounds like baloney, is whatever happened to CFC taking a salary dump? That clearly is not inherent in that dumb deal.

 

[rp84]

I'd still want to draft an elite mid with our first pick (this year or next) ON TOP of Kelly and Hopper/Whitfield.

It could be the last top 3 pick we have for a while.

If we could do that, I would do whatever SOS wanted.

What. Ever.

 

[LordLucifer]

You make someone an offer (make someone else make that offer) that's too good to refuse. It's business.

Let's put Cripps on the tables as well then ??

I keep reading about how it is a bad look to ship players off willy-nilly as it erodes camaraderie and team spirit yet you think it would be a great move to get rid of the captain.

I have no issue with trading out players but long-termers like the captain is not the answer.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Pull the ******* trigger if this is the case.

Pick 18 for Cas? WTF do it now!!!!

 

[1981]

It is laughable to think Murphy will get traded.

 

[reubsblues]

If its Kelly, Hopper and Whitfield for
2017-2018 1st and Casboult compo its and no brainer for me, would do in a heartbeat
Whos to say the 1st rounders we would pick wouldn't be another Massie,Vance, livingstone,Yarran
Watson , Boekhorst list goes on

 

[Jabba73]

It is laughable to think Murphy will get traded.

Unless he asks ...

 

[blueboy25]

Another article in the copy of Inside Football that I picked up in Melbourne was "Dominant Duo Set For Draft" by Chris Pike writing about the WAFL.

He then named Tim Kelly & Haiden Schloithe from South Fremantle as 'prime examples of the potential advantages of raising the draft age'. Sloithe is 23yo and is averaging 30.7 disposals per game whilst Kelly is at 28.2, both are strong chances in the Sandover too.

I'm sure there are better judges at our club to know if they are worth bringing onto the playing list but based on the raw figures, they seem like they are well suited.

There are some decent mature age WAFL players that should get picked up including the two you have named from South Freo. Liam Ryan and Max Walters from Subiaco are good chance to pick up especially Ryan.

 

[1981]

Let's put Cripps on the tables as well then ??

I keep reading about how it is a bad look to ship players off willy-nilly as it erodes camaraderie and team spirit yet you think it would be a great move to get rid of the captain.

I have no issue with trading out players but long-termers like the captain is not the answer.

Exactly that's how you ruin club culture

 

[Juddernaut08]

I know I said this months ago but dont rule out the Hawks being keen on Casboult either - The Vickery role player they didn't get from Vickery perhaps. Might make a Sicily trade a real possibility. Sicily plus another for Casboult and a late pick.

No ones trading for Casboult! All parties worse off!

Cas - gets lesser contract
Haw - loses assets
Car - gets less back than in free agency