Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HARKER]

Love this.

2017:

Keep 1st rounder and Draft Lachie O'Brien.

Trade Casboult for pick in 20s or 30s.

Get Kelly for 2018 1st rounder and Casboult pick.

2018: Take Ben Silvagni

My only issue is that if we don't trade Gibbs then I'm not sure how we procure Hopper and Balic...

Anyone have any idea how we could do this?

Not a bad start point, but to get Hopper, simply completes the deal.
Not going to be easy, but nothing new in saying, "You have to give away something, to get something"

The CFC are clearly after youth. Trigg just said it again.
We won't be reaching with picks or trades for older guys. Maybe FA, but not this year.
So, if we're not after older guys, we may be prepared to give some away in order to trade to advantage. I don't know....the notion is sound to me.

 

[Toddski]

Add Kelly, Hopper, O'Brien and Balic then we have midfield depth.

IMO you need 8 rotating mids capable of contributing a fair bit.

2018 team could have these players rotating through midfield:

Murphy, Cripps, Gibbs, Hopper, Kelly, SPS, Fisher, Cuningham, O'Brien, Balic

Potentially with these players to add:

Williamson, Polson, Pickett, Docherty, C Curnow

Now that looks pretty damn impressive to me! Even taking out MM and Gibbs doesn't ruin things.

I've managed to persuade my nephew to follow the blues and boy has he picked a time to jump on the navy train.

CFC4Eva

 

[passmark]

I listened to Triggs interview and he was very strong on Gibbs' contract status but left some wiggle room for Gibbs to be traded.

To me it sounded like we don't care what other teams want, if they want Bryce they pay the price.

 

[HARKER]

Interesting so if we are definetly going to the draft for 3 years i wonder if next years first is in play for either Kelly or Hopper.....

That was the indication forthcoming from Trigg.
It doesn't mean we'll have everything our way when we go to the trade table, but it was clear to me from what he said, that we'll be loading up on young men who have been in the system ~2-4 years.

Listening to the interview, I gained the impression that we're sticking fat, in keeping to our plan of going hard at the draft for three years.
Everything about that notion makes sense and if we don't have a first next year, so be it. We'll have Ben Silvagni and one or two FA's.....perfect.

 

[No1Suspect]

Totally disagree. It's about building the next great side and the club has been consistent about this being a 3 year list turnaround. Still lots of very average players on our list and we lack elite talent. Bring in names like Hopper Balic and/or Kelly etc (I have no doubt SOS has another couple of players around 20-24 years old in mind) plus pick 2 or 3 and another 5-6 young guns and all of a sudden there is real quality pushing for spots. At the moment we lack real depth. Look how with just a couple of injuries our reserves have fallen away. With another good trade period/draft names like Kerridge ASOS Phillips Sheehan Wright Lamb Rowe may well be just depth/back up players. Wouldn't that be nice? At the moment our list is still a long way from where it needs to be

Please enlighten me as to how we keep pick 2-3, draft 5-6 young guns and get Kelly/Hopper?

Pie in the sky stuff.

And please Balic is not elite.

 

[Arr0w]

Please enlighten me as to how we keep pick 2-3, draft 5-6 young guns and get Kelly/Hopper?

Pie in the sky stuff.

And please Balic is not elite.

We should not even contemplate giving up anything inside a 4th rounder for Balic

 

[Soapy V]

Please enlighten me as to how we keep pick 2-3, draft 5-6 young guns and get Kelly/Hopper?

Pie in the sky stuff.

And please Balic is not elite.

Easily. Gibbs pick and or future picks, help with Salary Cap. SOS will get it done.

Never said Balic was elite

 

[Jimmae]

Is that fact or are you guessing?

The whole point of a Cat B rookie is that they are unregistered for football in the previous 3 years unless they are an academy player.

I don't know for certain, but the media talk and the talk here at the time was that we had to seek permission from the AFL to get him on there.

 

[HARKER]

Looking forward to next year already, when we'll have some more of the pieces in place and an extra 10-20 games into the youth.

It won't be too hard to convince players wanting to come to us either, given the exciting nucleus of players we now have, the transformed club culture and a not-too-bad coach in Bolton, guiding your future.

It's going to be a crazy trading period coming up. Just the way it should be.

 

[Toddski]

Looking forward to next year already, when we'll have some more of the pieces in place and an extra 10-20 games into the youth.

It won't be too hard to convince players wanting to come to us either, given the exciting nucleus of players we now have, the transformed club culture and a not-too-bad coach in Bolton, guiding your future.

It's going to be a crazy trading period coming up. Just the way it should be.

Isn't it great that we finally have a recruiter and list manager that knows what they're doing?

For too long we had inept egos running the show and it's kept this once great football club stranded for far too long.

 

[big_sav]

Free angency
Casboult -> richmond
Carlton receive pick at end of first round

Trade 1:
Gibbs + 2018 3rd rounder-> adelaide
Adelaides 2017 and 2018 first rounders -> carlton

Trade 2:
Kelly + hopper -> carlton
Carltons 2018 first pick, Casboult compensation (~20) and adelaide 2017 first rounder (~16)

A few small trades here and there to finish off during trade period (balic etc) but this way we could keep this yrs first as weyll as getting hopper and kelly. We also still have adelaides first rounder next yr so not completely out of the draft in 2018. I only have a small feeling that gws might want something more for the two players





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Iamcarlton]

I understood that signing a Cat B had a minimum term of 3 years. It may be 2 now, though.
Sheehan was re-signed as a Cat B last year...........but whichever way; He won't be delisted.

If thats the case ( 3 yr term ) then he's possibly the luckiest player ever to play the game at the elite level .

 

[eddydaniell]

Just a few thoughts on our list management strategy

I would only do the Gibbs trade if it nets us two first rounders from Adelaide. If we don't receive that I wouldn't trade him under any circumstances. Our weakest part of our team at the moment is probably our midfield depth and I think trading Gibbs would only serve to weaken that further. We need more players like Gibbs not less and he should be around in a few years when we are really challenging.

If I was SOS I would trade our first two picks this year for J Kelly and maybe throw in a player as well. I don't see Hopper as the answer based on his exposed form. From all reports this years draft is weak so we can afford to trade these picks in order to grab an AA player in Kelly.

In regards to Levi, the only way I see us losing him is if McKay steps up in a big way. At the moment there is no one on our list who can play Levi's role and he is a critical player to our structure.

 

[ShanDog]

Is that fact or are you guessing?

Fact.

 

[ShanDog]

If thats the case ( 3 yr term ) then he's possibly the luckiest player ever to play the game at the elite level .

A Category B International Rookie can be on a list for 3 years. We got special permission because he has been injured to get an additional year in that same category, though we had to technically delist him and then pick him up as a Cat B Rookie again. It won't be for three years - it's only for the one AFAIK.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-31/blues-promote-byrne-set-to-keep-fellow-irishman-sheehan?88937

Take a look at his injury run according to SEN Player Ratings:

2014 Season
1 PM Did a few nice things up forward. Still learning. -
2 Northern Blues didn’t play.
3 VFL Still learning but did some good things. -
4 VFL Burst in and out of the game. Getting better. -
5 VFL Slowly getting the grasp of things at this level. -
6 VFL One of the few Blues winners on a dirty day. -
7 VFL Competed hard and put pressure on Coburg ball carriers. -
8 VFL Impressed down back with his defending and competitiveness. -
9 VFL Bye. -
10 VFL Did some nice things in attack. Kicked a goal. -
11 VFL Bye. -
12 VFL Impressed again with his ball use and smarts. Big improver. -
13 VFL Continues to develop his game. Likely type. -
14 VFL Provided good rebound from defence. Another Irish success? -
15 VFL Lowered his colors for a rare occasion this year. -
16 VFL OK again in defence and building week to week. -
17 VFL Had his hands full down back against North Ballarat. -
18 Rested.
19 VFL Like Byrne, continues to show a bit. 17 possessions. -
20 GCS Impressive debut by Irishman. Plenty of rebound and a thumping left boot. 6
21 Geel Showed some great signs but also his newness to the game at times. 5
22 Port Will be better for the experience playing just his third AFL game. 3
23 Ess Showed a heap of promise again. Worked well defensively and provided run. 6

2015 Season
1 Groin.
2 Groin.
3 Groin.
4 Groin.
5 Groin.
6 Groin.
7 Groin.
8 Groin.
9 Groin.
10 Groin.
11 Groin.
12 Groin.
13 Groin.
14 Groin.
15 Groin.
16 Groin.
17 Groin.
18 Groin.
19 Groin.
20 Groin.
21 Groin.
22 Groin.
23 Groin.

2016 Season
1 Hip.
2 Hip.
3 Hip.
4 Hip.
5 Hip.
6 Hip.
7 Hip.
8 Hip.
9 VFL Played first VFL game since August 2014. Quiet but got through which was aim. -
10 VFL Bye. -
11 VFL Irishman had three rebound 50s but wasn’t a big factor and he finds his feet. -
12 VFL Made his touches count with two goals from nine kicks. Showed glimpses. -
13 VFL Bye. -
14 VFL Hardly sighted. Three kicks for the game. Finding his feet after injury. -
15 Knee.
16 Hamstring.
17 Hamstring.
18 Hamstring.
19 Hamstring.
20 Hamstring.
21 Hamstring.
22 Hamstring.
23 Hamstring.

2017 Season
1 -
2 -
3 Did well in the back half to repel Borough attacks. Just needed a few more mates willing to help him out.
4 PM Steady across half back but suffered a knock to the knee and injured his medial ligament. -
5 Knee.
6 Knee.
7 VFL Back from knee issue and was good – especially early on. Good base to build on. -
8 VFL Caught the eye with his work down in the back half. Had 20 touches too. -
9 VFL Did his bit down back to restrict Sandringham's forwards. -
10 Bye.
11 Bye.
12 VFL Played his role well and was a good contributor again. 14 possessions, four inside 50s. -
13 VFL Didn’t get a lot of the ball, but tried hard in back half and stood tall on occasions. -

 

[thylacine60]

paton is a phone box

 

[Iamcarlton]

A Category B International Rookie can be on a list for 3 years. We got special permission because he has been injured to get an additional year in that same category, though we had to technically delist him and then pick him up as a Cat B Rookie again. It won't be for three years - it's only for the one AFAIK.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-31/blues-promote-byrne-set-to-keep-fellow-irishman-sheehan?88937

Take a look at his injury run according to SEN Player Ratings:

2014 Season
1 PM Did a few nice things up forward. Still learning. -
2 Northern Blues didn’t play.
3 VFL Still learning but did some good things. -
4 VFL Burst in and out of the game. Getting better. -
5 VFL Slowly getting the grasp of things at this level. -
6 VFL One of the few Blues winners on a dirty day. -
7 VFL Competed hard and put pressure on Coburg ball carriers. -
8 VFL Impressed down back with his defending and competitiveness. -
9 VFL Bye. -
10 VFL Did some nice things in attack. Kicked a goal. -
11 VFL Bye. -
12 VFL Impressed again with his ball use and smarts. Big improver. -
13 VFL Continues to develop his game. Likely type. -
14 VFL Provided good rebound from defence. Another Irish success? -
15 VFL Lowered his colors for a rare occasion this year. -
16 VFL OK again in defence and building week to week. -
17 VFL Had his hands full down back against North Ballarat. -
18 Rested.
19 VFL Like Byrne, continues to show a bit. 17 possessions. -
20 GCS Impressive debut by Irishman. Plenty of rebound and a thumping left boot. 6
21 Geel Showed some great signs but also his newness to the game at times. 5
22 Port Will be better for the experience playing just his third AFL game. 3
23 Ess Showed a heap of promise again. Worked well defensively and provided run. 6

2015 Season
1 Groin.
2 Groin.
3 Groin.
4 Groin.
5 Groin.
6 Groin.
7 Groin.
8 Groin.
9 Groin.
10 Groin.
11 Groin.
12 Groin.
13 Groin.
14 Groin.
15 Groin.
16 Groin.
17 Groin.
18 Groin.
19 Groin.
20 Groin.
21 Groin.
22 Groin.
23 Groin.

2016 Season
1 Hip.
2 Hip.
3 Hip.
4 Hip.
5 Hip.
6 Hip.
7 Hip.
8 Hip.
9 VFL Played first VFL game since August 2014. Quiet but got through which was aim. -
10 VFL Bye. -
11 VFL Irishman had three rebound 50s but wasn’t a big factor and he finds his feet. -
12 VFL Made his touches count with two goals from nine kicks. Showed glimpses. -
13 VFL Bye. -
14 VFL Hardly sighted. Three kicks for the game. Finding his feet after injury. -
15 Knee.
16 Hamstring.
17 Hamstring.
18 Hamstring.
19 Hamstring.
20 Hamstring.
21 Hamstring.
22 Hamstring.
23 Hamstring.

2017 Season
1 -
2 -
3 Did well in the back half to repel Borough attacks. Just needed a few more mates willing to help him out.
4 PM Steady across half back but suffered a knock to the knee and injured his medial ligament. -
5 Knee.
6 Knee.
7 VFL Back from knee issue and was good – especially early on. Good base to build on. -
8 VFL Caught the eye with his work down in the back half. Had 20 touches too. -
9 VFL Did his bit down back to restrict Sandringham's forwards. -
10 Bye.
11 Bye.
12 VFL Played his role well and was a good contributor again. 14 possessions, four inside 50s. -
13 VFL Didn’t get a lot of the ball, but tried hard in back half and stood tall on occasions. -

Not sure if your a fan or not
Ok guess i can put up with another injury interrupted year

 

[Jimmae]

A Category B International Rookie can be on a list for 3 years. We got special permission because he has been injured to get an additional year in that same category, though we had to technically delist him and then pick him up as a Cat B Rookie again. It won't be for three years - it's only for the one AFAIK.

He wound up on the Cat A (regular) rookie list because he was brought over at the same time as Byrne, and the rules had changed such that only one Irish recruit could be Cat B per year (designed to be a disincentive to appease the GAA).

 

[ShanDog]

He wound up on the Cat A (regular) rookie list because he was brought over at the same time as Byrne, and the rules had changed such that only one Irish recruit could be Cat B per year (designed to be a disincentive to appease the GAA).

Too many categories and rules.

End result - he's on his last year as a rookie at the club because we asked for special permission. At least, that's what's been reported.

 

[ShanDog]

Not sure if your a fan or not
Ok guess i can put up with another injury interrupted year

Just like to watch an underdog get up

 

[DangerousD]

Trigg on SEN saying that they've committed to going into the draft for three years.........2 down......1 to go.
Just re-inforcing everything everything else the CFC have been saying.
Keen on elite young talent, also......cough.....Kelly.

1. SOS has final say on recruiting/drafting decisions.
2. We have to go to the board for ticking-off, on players over 500K per year.
3. Gibbs to stay at the club. Sounds confident to me.

Sounds good to me. Trading out 2018 picks for 2017 picks if they choose is still going to the draft though. Still a lot of options going forward.

 

[DangerousD]

Get Kelly for 2018 1st rounder and Casboult pick.

If Treloar cost pick 7+7 with 25is going back then why will Kelly cost pick 4-10+20-30?

 

[F_therest]

Trigg on SEN saying that they've committed to going into the draft for three years.........2 down......1 to go.
Just re-inforcing everything everything else the CFC have been saying.
Keen on elite young talent, also......cough.....Kelly.

1. SOS has final say on recruiting/drafting decisions.
2. We have to go to the board for ticking-off, on players over 500K per year.
3. Gibbs to stay at the club. Sounds confident to me.

1. Good.
2. Not sure if this means anything really...what do the board know? They signed off on Daisy...it's sos and the recruiting team that are the experts.
3. Got to keep trotting out this line that he's a required player and contracted...keep the same bargaining position as last trade period. Not giving players away like we did Garlett and Robinson

 

[Soapy V]

Sounds good to me. Trading out 2018 picks for 2017 picks if they choose is still going to the draft though. Still a lot of options going forward.

I listened to the interview again and Trigg was clear it was about bringing in "Young" talent. Was happy to do that via draft or trade. I got the impression he was talking about Hopper or even some young interstate kids drafted in last 2 years.

Said we are 18 months into rebuild and nothing is changing. Very focused on direction and plan for 3 years when Bolton & SOS came on board. NOTHING has changed. List is thin (had low injuries) and still need lots of changes. Clear that SOS is in charge

Board need to ratify any contract bigger than $500k p.a and 3 years although that will increase with new CBA. We have lots of Salary Cap room to chase other players.

Very happy with development of kids and senior players have been terrific but long way to go.

 

[ESKIE]

Hasn't Matty Wright been a good pick up ... so pleased he got a contract extension