Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[SkyhorseTamer]

In a dream scenario:

- Fyfe as a free agent (no trading picks).

- Gibbs pick (if he leaves) used to trade for Schache (who we've been linked to along with the Tigers).

- 2018 first used to trade for Hopper and Kennedy from GWS

- Retain first pick at end of year (somewhere between pick 1-5)

Would be a dream scenario but obviously highly unlikely. All the players coming in fit the age bracket without sacrificing our need to continue to bring in quality youth (as they are all quality under the age of 21 except Fyfe). Schache teams up with McKay as our two main towers up forward releasing Weiters back into defence (which pushes Rowe out of the team). Fyfe, Hopper, and Kennedy add a HUGE amount to our midfield and are walk up starters to partner with Cripps, SPS, and Murphy. Plus we still bring in an elite talent from the draft (pick ~1-5 depending on ladder position).

Our youthful team then looks like:

Plowman, Marchbank, Byrne
Docherty, Weitering, Williamson

Kreuzer, Cripps, Hopper
Kennedy, Fyfe, Murphy

C. Curnow, Schache, SPS
Pickett, McKay, Wright

INT from: Macreadie, SOSOS, Polson, Fisher, Sumner, Phillips, Jaksch, Kerr, Cuningham, LeBois, First Draft pick

Like it but we aren't after schache. So swing weiterbot forward and start macreadie down back.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Like it but we aren't after schache. So swing weiterbot forward and start macreadie down back.

I'm just going by the rumour as mentioned somewhere (think I read it on Fox Sports I believe it was). Plus we'd be silly not to grab Schache for the right price. Sends Weiters back to his more natural position in my opinion and leaves us with two of the best young forward talents with huge upside in McKay and Schache. Would be a Hawthorn type draft when they grabbed Franklin and Roughy. We would effectively have landed all these guys from the one draft.

Weiters, Schache, McKay, Curnow, SOS, Cuningham.. talk about a defining draft right there.

I see the strategy coming into place. Land all the talls in one draft and then use free agency and clever trading with GWS to build our midfield.

 

[Red Bull]

Zaharakis is a pea hearted football player. Is on par with ed curnow for disposal quality and doesn't have anything like eds ticker or courage. Massive pass for me and would extremely pissed off if we ended up with him.

Yeah ... pass

 

[Red Bull]

I'm just going by the rumour as mentioned somewhere (think I read it on Fox Sports I believe it was). Plus we'd be silly not to grab Schache for the right price. Sends Weiters back to his more natural position in my opinion and leaves us with two of the best young forward talents with huge upside in McKay and Schache. Would be a Hawthorn type draft when they grabbed Franklin and Roughy. We would effectively have landed all these guys from the one draft.

Weiters, Schache, McKay, Curnow, SOS, Cuningham.. talk about a defining draft right there.

I see the strategy coming into place. Land all the talls in one draft and then use free agency and clever trading with GWS to build our midfield.

Even if Schache were on the radar , pick 16-18 ain't even close to getting it done .

 

[LordLucifer]

If you recall the talk was for another "4 player" deal from GWS, and all the players I mentioned were rolled through as part of "the 4", granted probably Steele and Stewart were probably more mentioned than the others, but they were all touted.

All of that "talk" came from posters on this forum, there was nothing substantial outside of those rumours.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Even if Schache were on the radar , pick 16-18 ain't even close to getting it done .

Depends on his output this year to be honest. I'd agree with you if he shows a bit more than what he has, but it's common knowledge a players worth goes down when a) they're out of contract b) they request a trade c) they haven't shown a huge amount. Clubs value picks highly. Something about that whole unknown potentially providing a great white hope.

But the Gibbs pick is a good starting point for negotiations.

 

[Red Bull]

Depends on his output this year to be honest. I'd agree with you if he shows a bit more than what he has, but it's common knowledge a players worth goes down when a) they're out of contract b) they request a trade c) they haven't shown a huge amount. Clubs value picks highly. Something about that whole unknown potentially providing a great white hope.

But the Gibbs pick is a good starting point for negotiations.

He's a pick 2 KPF in his second year .
Would you accept pick 16-18 for Weitering ?

 

[Blue By Blood]

He's a pick 2 KPF in his second year .
Would you accept pick 16-18 for Weitering ?

Weitering has shown a lot more.. in answer to your question no. You don't agree that a players value drops when they're out of contract or seeking a trade?

Also, re-read my post above where I mention starting point in negotiations.

 

[LordLucifer]

Whilst the notion of securing Fyffe as a FA sounds great, I reckon we may have had a rethink on that scenario.

It appears more and more like we are just going to keep loading up on young players from the draft (ie. 17-19yo's) and trade in young players who have been in the system for a year or two or three (20-23yo's).

By doing so, the list will be chockfull of players who are all in the 18-24yo bracket meaning that they will play together for many years and be able to have multiple assaults at the premiership.

As these players get older and near to 30 (or thereabouts), some of them get traded out whilst they still have their maximum value and with what we get in return, go back to the draft and pick up more talented 17-19yo's to keep the conveyor belt moving along nicely.

 

[Red Bull]

Weitering has shown a lot more.. in answer to your question no. You don't agree that a players value drops when they're out of contract or seeking a trade?

Come on mate ,
We're talking about a pick 2 KPF here who is tracking very nicely in his second season .
Pick 16-18 is an insult .

 

[Blue By Blood]

Come on mate ,
We're talking about a pick 2 KPF here who is tracking very nicely in his second season .
Pick 16-18 is an insult .

You never get 'fair value' for a player when they ask for a trade and are out of contract. A young, promising key forward is no different. Do I think he's worth more than pick 16.. of course. Do I think it would be enough to get it done.. no. But I will re-stress that it's a starting point in negotiations. IF he nominates a club then the current club loses significant leverage in any deal.. fact. Whether I agree with that or not it's just the current landscape of modern footy and trading. More needs to be done around contracts and making it harder for players to up and leave a club who's shown faith in them but that's a whole other debate.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Come on mate ,
We're talking about a pick 2 KPF here who is tracking very nicely in his second season .
Pick 16-18 is an insult .

Plus there are other clubs who will go after him hard and offer more. Richmond or ST kilda... Both have 2 first rounders and are more likely to drop a huge salary in front of schache.

 

[ferrisb]

The other advantage being the significant amount of $ we have spare in the cap, and the willingness to effectively fill that with depth players.

There wouldn't be too many other clubs around at the moment (a) with the space in the cap we have, and (b) the willingness to almost mortgage off a list spot.

Who would have thought that having a such a poorly-managed list (historically) could be such an advantage, right?

 

[thylacine60]

We don't have exclusive rights, we've just been in pole position. I don't expect that to change just yet.

Are we destination yet?

 

[BluesRule]

You never get 'fair value' for a player when they ask for a trade and are out of contract. A young, promising key forward is no different. Do I think he's worth more than pick 16.. of course. Do I think it would be enough to get it done.. no. But I will re-stress that it's a starting point in negotiations. IF he nominates a club then the current club loses significant leverage in any deal.. fact. Whether I agree with that or not it's just the current landscape of modern footy and trading. More needs to be done around contracts and making it harder for players to up and leave a club who's shown faith in them but that's a whole other debate.

Adelaide looking good at present but no certainty to be premiers. If we trade Gibbs then Adelaides first round pick could be 12-18.

Think Brisbane will resign him on very good $$$$.(But hope the lure of Weltering proves me wrong).

Would like Gallucci from Adelaide and their first round pick in 2017 or 2018 for Gibbs and a lower pick/player back to them. Heard a radio caller say Ben is better than Jack yesterday but I think that is far from true at this point in time. Expectation that Ben will be pick #1 are far fetched as he is not even playing in U18 champs, and no team will want to blow a first round pick on a player who wants to go to CFC. So every pick we get in the first round in 2018 will be valuable.

 

[slashin_velvet]

You never get 'fair value' for a player when they ask for a trade and are out of contract. A young, promising key forward is no different. Do I think he's worth more than pick 16.. of course. Do I think it would be enough to get it done.. no. But I will re-stress that it's a starting point in negotiations. IF he nominates a club then the current club loses significant leverage in any deal.. fact. Whether I agree with that or not it's just the current landscape of modern footy and trading. More needs to be done around contracts and making it harder for players to up and leave a club who's shown faith in them but that's a whole other debate.

I agree, you might lose some value when a player looking for a trade, is out of contract and nominates a club.

That being said, 16-18 is certainly a stretch. There haven't been a lot of trades of young key forwards, in recent history, but those that have moved have done so for significant consideration - Boyd being the biggest example.

Further, Brisbane have been a bit of a poaching ground in recent years, and the AFL would be keen to stamp out people trying to rip them off.

 

[Aphrodite]

Play nice thanks folks!

 

[ferrisb]

Perfect age, perfect talent, perfect position, perfect size, perfect Frank Booth quotes in matchday threads.

GET HIM.

Ooooh, that was smooth. Like velvet....

 

[Coona Blues]

I was wondering who our targets would be this coming trade period.
Barass is usually close to the money so am happy to accept his list, Hopper, Kennedy, Smith and Balic is
an impressive shopping list.

Realistically we could only hope for two of the GWS boys, and any combination would be great, although
Hopper would be deemed as "the jewel in the crown". Kennedy is not far behind and perhaps a little more
versatile. Dylan Smith is a little under rated by many, and is as much mid as forward, a year or two back.
pre Griffen and Johnson (and rise of Greene) was regularly racking up 30. They have added Taranto as well
as Setterfield and co., so opportunities are at a premium.

(Unfortunately) injuries to Coniglio and Griffen, as well as the Whitfield saga has opened up some opportunities
which may prompt the youngsters to stay, although probably not too many cap dollars to go around. It will be
an interesting season to watch unfold.

Balic an interesting prospect racking up possies in the twos before his debut. I have no idea of his "go home"
inclinations, but the price will not be as high as the GWS boys. Not beyond the realms of possibility that WA's
Simon White or big Levi may have some trade currency if they cut some long term "almost" players, if they
go through a genuine rebuild. Unless Apeness can stay on the park, they are in need of a forward/ruck and
strange as it may be Levi would be in front of Clarke and Griffin. Would take a pick, but we may have viable
sweeteners.

 

[Cutz]

Whilst the notion of securing Fyffe as a FA sounds great, I reckon we may have had a rethink on that scenario.

It appears more and more like we are just going to keep loading up on young players from the draft (ie. 17-19yo's) and trade in young players who have been in the system for a year or two or three (20-23yo's).

By doing so, the list will be chockfull of players who are all in the 18-24yo bracket meaning that they will play together for many years and be able to have multiple assaults at the premiership.

As these players get older and near to 30 (or thereabouts), some of them get traded out whilst they still have their maximum value and with what we get in return, go back to the draft and pick up more talented 17-19yo's to keep the conveyor belt moving along nicely.

Love this...This is EXACTLY what I want Carlton to start doing...

 

[El Topo]

Ooooh, that was smooth. Like velvet....

DADDY WANTS TO Find the ball and deliver it to a teammate's advantage

 

[Kramer1]

Dylan Smith is a little under rated by many

Yourself included it appears.

 

[Blue Razor]

Is there any implication regarding Free Agents and PSD.

For example
We finish last and have 1st PSD.
Fyfe elects to be FA and we make an offer for Freo to match.
Freo shouldn't match cause basically we don't need to trade to get him and they lose the compensation pick which would be band 1.

Or is there a rule FA can't go into PSD and clubs must trade?

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Looks like the salary cap will be 25% larger next year....how in the hell are we going to get even within a bulls roar of paying 95% of the cap without a big name coming via FA?

Surely the AFL has to relax that requirement for us and other clubs... btw, what's the penalty for not reaching the 95% minimum?

 

[Juddernaut08]

Like it but we aren't after schache. So swing weiterbot forward and start macreadie down back.

I like it too. But how do we get kennedy and hopper? What is the trade that gets them?