Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[F_therest]

Regardless if Kruz leaves at seasons end we need to sure up our ruck stocks. Phillips looks serviceable but is there better out there? Does anyone have a list of rucks currently not getting enough opportunities at their current clubs?
Would Riley O'brien from the Crows be worth pursuing in the Gibbs deal if it goes ahead?

Billy Longer would be really cheap.
The fact he'd be at his 3rd club isn't good signs though but he was a high draft pick who was squeezed out by Leunberger and Hickey.

Archie Smith from Brisbane. Showed some promising signs a year or 2 ago but can't get a game ahead of Stefan Martin.

Tom Nicholls. Behind Jarrod Witts. Promising a few years ago not sure what's happened to him.

Matthew Lobbe. Not getting a game anymore for PA though might be too old for us.

Marc Pittonet from Hawthorn.

 

[BluesRule]

I hear what you're saying but if Kreuzer is finally over his injury woes...i mean right now on current form he'd be in the top 3-5 rucks in the comp.

Love Kreuz, he will give us 100 more games and brings intensity and passion to make the midfield better. If we are going to improve over the next 5 years he needs to stay on the park and be our main ruck man.

However, if a stupidly big offer emerges that nets us a top 5 pick as a FA, then would SOS let him go and lower the group age further?

 

[El Topo]

Think people are overrating the cost of Hopper, he wouldn't be much different in cost to Marchbank who was rated very highly by GWS. For all the haggling from GWS we only gave up a late first for Marchbank as well as a swap of picks in our favour. I think the pick we get for Gibbs would be enough for Hopper.

Moreover, the reason the Marchbank deal was so painful was because GWS were playing funny buggers trying to muscle SOS into trading Gibbs for the currency. Gibbs pick plus swap of later picks for Hopper would be a good deal- valuing Hopper the same as Caleb.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Dude it was pick 40 odd for picks 48, 66 and 70.

When you're delisting 15 players you need more picks for replacements.

The fact that 2 of those players selected have played already and look (based on limited exposed form) as 10 year quality players just makes that trade a massive win for us.

Have you considered that in addition to needing extra picks in order to fill 15 list positions following delisting, SOS may have had players in mind going into the draft?

Could have been pick 19, just ask the Saints how well it's going this year. Absolutely laughing, the further you go out from the pointy end of the draft the less likely you're to find players.

Just because we look like, so far, to have hit the jackpot doesn't make it wholly right.

 

[DangerousD]

I hear what you're saying but if Kreuzer is finally over his injury woes...i mean right now on current form he'd be in the top 3-5 rucks in the comp.

I agree 100% but im not thinking about now or next year, im thinking of what he will be like in 2019 and 2020 and beyond against what we will get for him.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Or we can continue to bring in young players through the draft and trading instead of instead of Fyfe, who IMO, is at very long odds to leave Fremantle. Just as I think Martin is at very long odds to leave Richmond. I'm still of he opinion its the wrong time in our rebuild to get that elite FA.

Never a wrong time to get a 25 yr old FA

 

[Jeremias]

Could have been pick 19

Well yeah it could have, if you think GWS are a chance of finishing on the bottom of the ladder in 2017.

In this world, though, that was never going to be the case.

 

[DangerousD]

Could have been pick 19, just ask the Saints how well it's going this year. Absolutely laughing, the further you go out from the pointy end of the draft the less likely you're to find players.

Just because we look like, so far, to have hit the jackpot doesn't make it wholly right.

How could the Giants 2nd round pick be 19 mate?

 

[Malifice]

Could have been pick 19, just ask the Saints how well it's going this year. Absolutely laughing, the further you go out from the pointy end of the draft the less likely you're to find players.

Just because we look like, so far, to have hit the jackpot doesn't make it wholly right.

We had a saying in the army.

If it's a stupid plan and it works, it wasn't a stupid plan.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Billy Longer would be really cheap.
The fact he'd be at his 3rd club isn't good signs though but he was a high draft pick who was squeezed out by Leunberger and Hickey.

Archie Smith from Brisbane. Showed some promising signs a year or 2 ago but can't get a game ahead of Stefan Martin.

Tom Nicholls. Behind Jarrod Witts. Promising a few years ago not sure what's happened to him.

Matthew Lobbe. Not getting a game anymore for PA though might be too old for us.

Marc Pittonet from Hawthorn.

Longer's not up to it.
Nicholls is a spud.
Lobbe had one good year and hasn't been able to back it up.
Pittonet...no idea.

I like the look of Archie Smith. Seems more a Naitanui-type athletic jumper to the lumbering Kreuzer/Jacobs/Mumford-type ruckmen. Reckon we could get him for not much more than a late second/early third, or a swap of players if one of our bottom 10 are willing to head up north.

 

[Keyza]

Our ruck stocks are already bad and we don't have any promising young ruck coming through. I don't think we can afford to lose Kreuzer for some second round pick, doesn't sound like a smart move to me.

It isnt a smart move. But Kreuzer is a free agent and if he decides to leave there is nothing we can do about it, compo will not be what he is worth to us.
I hope that the club does everything it can to re-sign him, he has shown he is over his foot issues and is so important to us.

 

[HalloweenJack]

Is anyone able to shed light on why Hopper is rated so highly? I saw his first game and he was very impressive but the other games of GWS that I have watched I hardly noticed him. What have I missed?

 

[Sector 7G]

Dude it was pick 40 odd for picks 48, 66 and 70.

When you're delisting 15 players you need more picks for replacements.

The fact that 2 of those players selected have played already and look (based on limited exposed form) as 10 year quality players just makes that trade a massive win for us.

Have you considered that in addition to needing extra picks in order to fill 15 list positions following delisting, SOS may have had players in mind going into the draft?

The quality of the deal is predicated on the strength of this last years draft and to a lesser extent this years draft.

If we recruited Clem Smith and Jayden Foster with those picks then it would have been a bad deal. The fact that Le Bois was still avaiable as a rookie shows the depth.

 

[El Topo]

Is anyone able to shed light on why Hopper is rated so highly? I saw his first game and he was very impressive but the other games of GWS that I have watched I hardly noticed him. What have I missed?

Arguably the best mid in his draft class, did at least as well despite injury last year as Oliver who plays the same position and has everything frothing.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Toby Nankervis has cemented, after 3 games, his spot as Richmond's number one ruck.

Shaun Hampson only has 37 games left to be eligible for father/son. A fourth rounder should do the trick.

Why waste a 4th rounder on Hammer? What's Warnock up to? Could get him for free, he owes us a few $.

 

[LanceRomance]

Never a wrong time to get a 25 yr old

Only when you tell MrsLance.... Then it's a big problem

 

[katmanblue]

?

Well he certainly isnt contracted.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jimmae]

Wait, what, surely that can't be true. I'm even going to put it out there that it's wrong (i haven't checked the rules). If Freo match and a trade can't be reached, he is free to go to the draft or the PSD. A contract can not be entered to against someones will.

He is out of contract so is free to go to either the ND or PSD

Mate if they match a contract offer, they get him on that contract. He doesn't go anywhere. That's restricted free agency.

What did you think 'matching' referred to???

a. 2018 1st.+ for Hopper & D. Smith.
b. We keep our top 5 pick this year and take the best player available (likely a mid)
c. We gain Ben Silvagni for a much lower pick (second round ++)
d. We spend large on a FA, this year or next year. (Can't help feeling that we haven't just stowed away the money for a wait and see scenario. Not SOS)

We've got to spend this off-season. There's no way around that, and it'd be silly to absorb more than one contract, but that'd be from a GWS multideal again, if anything. It's silly not to expect us to go after Fyfe in a big way, and it's silly to think that anyone is thinking beyond end of 2018 in terms of the list build.

I'm not sure many staff have a contract for 2019.

Pick 16-18 doesn't even get you an interview for Hopper .
If the mail is on the money and we are into a few Giants , our 2018 1st rounder is definitely in play considering we must take this year's 1st rounder to the draft for best available mid .

Bullshit, I reckon they'd almost snap your hand off for that kind of deal. He might have only played 5-10 AFL games in two years despite being ready made. They can't possibly ask for what they paid for him if he hasn't really developed.

Billy Longer would be really cheap.
The fact he'd be at his 3rd club isn't good signs though but he was a high draft pick who was squeezed out by Leunberger and Hickey.

Archie Smith from Brisbane. Showed some promising signs a year or 2 ago but can't get a game ahead of Stefan Martin.

Tom Nicholls. Behind Jarrod Witts. Promising a few years ago not sure what's happened to him.

Matthew Lobbe. Not getting a game anymore for PA though might be too old for us.

Marc Pittonet from Hawthorn.

That shows you why clubs went hard last year:
FA - Vickery
Trade - Nankervis, Witts, Vardy
Draft - English, Darcy, Cameron, Abbott
Rookie draft - Draper, Filipovic, Ladhams, Marshall, McInerney, Strnadica, Lynch

Huge run on rucks, no idea why we didn't try and position ourselves a little better for this and get rid of one of Phillips or Gorringe with a late ND pick.

Fortunately, it means the gate is wide open for us this year and talent seen as ruck only is a good chance to slide. Hopefully we can find a way to use that to our advantage, otherwise it might be worth a look at Longer, who might want guarantees on senior footy after his spell at the Saints.

Arguably the best mid in his draft class, did at least as well despite injury last year as Oliver who plays the same position and has everything frothing.

That's got to be Mills, then Oliver, then Parish, then Hopper, which is pretty much how it went down. All in the top 5 conversation though, and rightly so.

 

[LordLucifer]

They can't possibly ask for what they paid for him if he hasn't really developed.

If he hasn't really developed then why would we want him anyway ??

 

[Jimmae]

If he hasn't really developed then why would we want him anyway ??

He had a heart issue which he's had tidied up, but the rest of the development problem is likely down to GWS' glut of talent, not his attitude.

Let's not go down this road again with GWS names, as even Jaksch is finally showing another gear. Most of their list are genuine senior AFL players in waiting.

 

[Jeremias]

Mate if they match a contract offer, they get him on that contract. He doesn't go anywhere. That's restricted free agency.

Pretty sure that if a club matches an offer for a RFA, the player can either choose to stay with his current club or enter the draft.

 

[Jimmae]

Pretty sure that if a club matches an offer for a RFA, the player can either choose to stay with his current club or enter the draft.

Right you are, I'd totally blanked on that.

It'd be a mental thing to do though, because in the case of a guy like Fyfe, suddenly you're trading to get your hands on pick 1, and you're burning it if you have it. You'd definitely be seeking a less punitive trade.

 

[LordLucifer]

He had a heart issue which he's had tidied up, but the rest of the development problem is likely down to GWS' glut of talent, not his attitude.

Let's not go down this road again with GWS names, as even Jaksch is finally showing another gear. Most of their list are genuine senior AFL players in waiting.

I'm confused, how can his development (or lack of it) be put down to the talent on the GWS list ??

Also, if Jaksch is showing another gear, he's only just got it out of neutral and into first.

 

[Jimmae]

I'm confused, how can his development (or lack of it) be put down to the talent on the GWS list ??

Also, if Jaksch is showing another gear, he's only just got it out of neutral and into first.

I don't really disagree on the bolded point, but at 23 he's hardly without future opportunities if he continues this trend.

I'm not sure why you don't find their situation to be detrimental to those who sit on the fringes of the side. The NEAFL isn't a great place to develop, and for some of the newer guys, there's a very real chance they're playing at that level AND regularly out of position.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Not sure why people are so willing to part with Gibbs and Kreuzer.

They are both best 22 players having good years.

We are almost through the proper list churn stage. We need to get used to drafting deep, not trying to trade our way into stacked first round picks.

A lot of very good midfielders get picked up in the 30's and 40's. Filling that part of the list should be a bit easier then the spine