Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[Funk]

speaking of which malthouse is now saying that onevof his biggest regrets at carlton is recruiting everitt as he convinced him to come over and hecwas a great player but now doesnt have a club???

It seems that most players improved under BB's tutelage.

Everett didn't perform and no other club was prepared to pick him up - even for free as a DFA!

I think the problem is Everett - not Carlton.

 

[DangerousD]

The only people who are suggesting that are saying it tongue in cheek to protect their own interests. It's perfectly understandable. This is a list management thread and he'll be unobtainable to any side who is unwilling to sell the farm for him, if at all. I don't know why anyone is bringing his name up in this thread in the first place, tbh.

As we had pick 1 possibly and could of had him.

 

[StandByyourMan]

Watching Fisher take possession at speed, running towards the goal on his non preferred about 20m out only for him to u-turn on to his left nearly made me throw my beer, all AFL players should have a basic skill level on their non preferred. Would of loved to have seen him have a crack regardless.

totally agree - a mangled right foot through the middle would have been very sweet.

 

[StandByyourMan]

It seems that most players improved under BB's tutelage.

Everett didn't perform and no other club was prepared to pick him up - even for free as a DFA!

I think the problem is Everett - not Carlton.

Malthouse has a severe personality disorder - he has been surrounded in his life for too long by yes men. he is cooked.

 

[HARKER]

Fabric.......MK is fabric....he's not Henderson or Menzal

Bleeds for the jumper and still young enough to survive the rebuild

How do you think that conversation might go, should a band 1 be on offer?

Do you think there should be a conversation or do we just shut down any dialogue around letting Kreuzer go?

 

[HARKER]

Maybe it's not 'definite delist'. But Jones, Jaksch and Boekhorst I would say are more likely delisted than not.

If you watched the last few weeks' games without any history, you wouldn't be saying this.

Just saying that things aren't quite as clear as they may have been only 4 weeks ago..........and that's a good thing.

 

[Jimmae]

How do you think that conversation might go, should a band 1 be on offer?

Do you think there should be a conversation or do we just shut down any dialogue around letting Kreuzer go?

Since the last set of changes to free agency, band 1 requires his salary to be in the top 5% in the AFL for players 25 and over.

So that's around top 20 in the league for salary. Do you really think that will happen?

 

[AB_Blue]

How do you think that conversation might go, should a band 1 be on offer?

Do you think there should be a conversation or do we just shut down any dialogue around letting Kreuzer go?

No doubt you would consider it but............ All things considered he's an on-field leader just starting to hit his most successful run of form and fitness.....he would be damn hard to replace. Even with pick 4-7

Philips not the answer as the no.1 ruck and we don't have a second round selection to stick under Norths nose for either of there No.1 Ruckman

Given the talk of giving up next years first for Hopper and co. I doubt we would give up our second next year either


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[Funk]

If you watched the last few weeks' games without any history, you wouldn't be saying this.

Just saying that things aren't quite as clear as they may have been only 4 weeks ago..........and that's a good thing.

Spot on Harks.

Wont it be great when we get to the point that we struggle to work out who we have to delist/trade because our list is so good we don't really want to lose anyone.

I dream about this!!

 

[Windhover]

I can't believe how fast his closing speed is. I like so many questioned his recruitment, however it looks like another SOS masterstroke

Like you I also questioned his recruitment at the time. I still do. But I am happy to admit to loving his last 3 games and do NOT question his place in the team or value on the field. Is this a paradox? No.

We will never know the value to winning a flag of the young recruit we didn't rookie list because we picked ASOS. What we do know is ASOS will be retired by the time we are in a position to win a flag (hell, he is playing so well and our kids are learning so well I could be wrong on this).

The tragedy of ASOS is that it has taken him his full adult years of playing footy to prove to everyone he can play not just competently, but well, at the level. He should have been recruited by either the Saints or us after his year with Sandy since both clubs knew of him and both clubs were desperately short of KPDs. He went to Freo and bad luck in the form of Ross Lyon arrived. He was consistently undervalued by Lyon - infrequently played and, despite beating Buddy last year was unceremoniously delisted.

The mistake is to think that the tragedy of ASOS (who even had a last name to help him) isn't being repeated every year multiple times. There are kids out there that given development on an AFL list could be anything, just like ASOS, but for 10 years or more.

For all the undoubted joy ASOS is giving us now, we are in a rebuild. We must be patient. We must accept losses, even bad losses, in the cause of improving our list carefully and methodically. ASOS covers cracks in our list which won't be revealed until he is not in the team if his replacement can't measure up. That is why ASOS is a strategic shortcut to our long-term goal.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Since the last set of changes to free agency, band 1 requires his salary to be in the top 5% in the AFL for players 25 and over.

So that's around top 20 in the league for salary. Do you really think that will happen?

Well they way our fellow supporters go on about his current form and the fact that he is clearly indispensable and irreplaceable to a lot of Carlton supporters I would suggest that 17 other clubs can see this too making band 1 compo easily achievable. Or are we simply over rating Kruezers worth?

 

[ODNBlue]

Since the last set of changes to free agency, band 1 requires his salary to be in the top 5% in the AFL for players 25 and over.

So that's around top 20 in the league for salary. Do you really think that will happen?

I wonder about this... for it to be true, you'd basically have to become either the highest paid player or second highest (at worst) at the destination club. Does that seem right?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Like you I also questioned his recruitment at the time. I still do. But I am happy to admit to loving his last 3 games and do NOT question his place in the team or value on the field. Is this a paradox? No.

We will never know the value to winning a flag of the young recruit we didn't rookie list because we picked ASOS. What we do know is ASOS will be retired by the time we are in a position to win a flag (hell, he is playing so well and our kids are learning so well I could be wrong on this).

The tragedy of ASOS is that it has taken him his full adult years of playing footy to prove to everyone he can play not just competently, but well, at the level. He should have been recruited by either the Saints or us after his year with Sandy since both clubs knew of him and both clubs were desperately short of KPDs. He went to Freo and bad luck in the form of Ross Lyon arrived. He was consistently undervalued by Lyon - infrequently played and, despite beating Buddy last year was unceremoniously delisted.

The mistake is to think that the tragedy of ASOS (who even had a last name to help him) isn't being repeated every year multiple times. There are kids out there that given development on an AFL list could be anything, just like ASOS, but for 10 years or more.

For all the undoubted joy ASOS is giving us now, we are in a rebuild. We must be patient. We must accept losses, even bad losses, in the cause of improving our list carefully and methodically. ASOS covers cracks in our list which won't be revealed until he is not in the team if his replacement can't measure up. That is why ASOS is a strategic shortcut to our long-term goal.

ASOS has been consistently undervalued by the majority of Carlton supporters since he was picked up. Interesting how things change so quickly.

 

[HBF]

Think he already know his right foot needs work. A lot of work.

Not many lefties have a strong right foot. He should have just dished it off.

 

[Jimmae]

Well they way our fellow supporters go on about his current form and the fact that he is clearly indispensable and irreplaceable to a lot of Carlton supporters I would suggest that 17 other clubs can see this too making band 1 compo easily achievable. Or are we simply over rating Kruezers worth?

He's been great for us, I just don't see him getting more than band 2. Do you chuck him away for that? I don't think so.

I wonder about this... for it to be true, you'd basically have to become either the highest paid player or second highest (at worst) at the destination club. Does that seem right?

That's about right, yes, and is reflected in the compensation we've seen in the last 2 off-seasons.

I'd estimate the band 1 threshold this off-season to be upwards of 800k/3yrs given the new CBA.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

He's been great for us, I just don't see him getting more than band 2. Do you chuck him away for that? I don't think so.


That's about right, yes, and is reflected in the compensation we've seen in the last 2 off-seasons.

I'd estimate the band 1 threshold this off-season to be upwards of 800k/3yrs given the new CBA.

I don't see any more than that either, band 2 compo I mean, but I think there are too many factors at play to simply go no, band 2 isn't enough.

 

[Iamcarlton]

He's been great for us, I just don't see him getting more than band 2. Do you chuck him away for that? I don't think so.


That's about right, yes, and is reflected in the compensation we've seen in the last 2 off-seasons.

I'd estimate the band 1 threshold this off-season to be upwards of 800k/3yrs given the new CBA.

Well that settles it Kruez wont be going anywhere .
Thanks Jimmae

 

[Blue__Balls]

Not many lefties have a strong right foot. He should have just dished it off.

If I remember right he was chased down by two Saints players, and it was the second one that got him. May have simply backed himself in to get around one bloke without realising there was a second lurking over his other shoulder.

If anyone has access to watching the footage again, am I right or am I misremembering? And if it was indeed the second player that prevented the goal, was there another Carlton player who should have been lending support?

Personally, I was more disappointed with Crippa's effort. He was 30 metres out, directly in front, running into goal - any AFL player in that situation should back themselves to kick the goal. Should have done so instead of trying to set up a cheeky handball over the top, only to change his mind when he realised it wasn't on.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Like you I also questioned his recruitment at the time. I still do. But I am happy to admit to loving his last 3 games and do NOT question his place in the team or value on the field. Is this a paradox? No.

We will never know the value to winning a flag of the young recruit we didn't rookie list because we picked ASOS. What we do know is ASOS will be retired by the time we are in a position to win a flag (hell, he is playing so well and our kids are learning so well I could be wrong on this).

The tragedy of ASOS is that it has taken him his full adult years of playing footy to prove to everyone he can play not just competently, but well, at the level. He should have been recruited by either the Saints or us after his year with Sandy since both clubs knew of him and both clubs were desperately short of KPDs. He went to Freo and bad luck in the form of Ross Lyon arrived. He was consistently undervalued by Lyon - infrequently played and, despite beating Buddy last year was unceremoniously delisted.

The mistake is to think that the tragedy of ASOS (who even had a last name to help him) isn't being repeated every year multiple times. There are kids out there that given development on an AFL list could be anything, just like ASOS, but for 10 years or more.

For all the undoubted joy ASOS is giving us now, we are in a rebuild. We must be patient. We must accept losses, even bad losses, in the cause of improving our list carefully and methodically. ASOS covers cracks in our list which won't be revealed until he is not in the team if his replacement can't measure up. That is why ASOS is a strategic shortcut to our long-term goal.

So your position is "We'll never know"?

Not sure why you need to keep repeating it given there's literally no way to measure whether you're right or wrong.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

If I remember right he was chased down by two Saints players, and it was the second one that got him. May have simply backed himself in to get around one bloke without realising there was a second lurking over his other shoulder.

If anyone has access to watching the footage again, am I right or am I misremembering? And if it was indeed the second player that prevented the goal, was there another Carlton player who should have been lending support?

Personally, I was more disappointed with Crippa's effort. He was 30 metres out, directly in front, running into goal - any AFL player in that situation should back themselves to kick the goal. Should have done so instead of trying to set up a cheeky handball over the top, only to change his mind when he realised it wasn't on.

It was on. His hesitation blew it.

 

[Blue__Balls]

It was on. His hesitation blew it.

Yeah, hence "cheeky". A quick handball straight over the top would have been fine. Shaping up to kick to draw the defender forward, the handballing over the top would have been fine. Instead he kept running in and gave the defender less space to actually defend, and in doing so painted himself into a corner.

Regardless though, from where he was with ball in hand, he should have backed himself to just kick the goal. Evidently wasn't confident enough to kick it which, given he's said he wants to add goal kicking to his list of strengths, isn't an ideal mindset.

Senior player vs. fourth gamer, don't think Fisher deserves too much heat. He'll learn.

 

[HARKER]

Wont it be great when we get to the point that we struggle to work out who we have to delist/trade because our list is so good we don't really want to lose anyone.

We had this 5 years ago when we rushed to contract Joseph, Davies and Ellard for 2 years, tying our hands out of any possible trading.
They're the days we don't want to see again...........and won't see again.

Don't mind players being traded and de-listed as need be. Just part of the game now and one you have to embrace if you want to succeed.

 

[bmaurizio]

Pick 4

No doubt you would consider it but............ All things considered he's an on-field leader just starting to hit his most successful run of form and fitness.....he would be damn hard to replace. Even with pick 4-7

Philips not the answer as the no.1 ruck and we don't have a second round selection to stick under Norths nose for either of there No.1 Ruckman

Given the talk of giving up next years first for Hopper and co. I doubt we would give up our second next year either


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It would be diffuicult for a few years, as Kreuz is so important for the team but another pick in the 4 to 7 vcinity may land us, Sam Hayes already 200CM, a very highly rated tall.
I would then us pick 2 to 4 for Darcy Fogarty no doubt in my mind the lads a star, reminds me of Stringer potenal.
20181st and Gibbs pick for Hooper and other mids.
We need to be aggressive, in SOS and Brodie we trust.

 

[Two Planks]

Have been told that Marcus Stavrou from the Northen Blues will be "hidden" in the development league from now on after impressing in the seniors. Look out for him in November.

 

[HARKER]

Have been told that Marcus Stavrou from the Northen Blues will be "hidden" in the development league from now on after impressing in the seniors. Look out for him in November.

Here he goes again.....It's obvious isn't it.

Good stuff Two Planks