Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[BrisbaneCFC]

Which part makes for disappointment though?

It's a great thing that those on their death bed have brought in to what the coaches have laid out for them.
The idea of Jones getting another contract 6 weeks ago was laughable.....Boy, have I been forced to change my view on that.

It's not just as though his form has been good......it has been AFL good.
It's on another level to anything we've seen from Jones before.....and the best part........it's been there for the full 4 quarters.

I'm wondering if its a short term blip in improvement? Can he maintain it for the season is the question. What if he is given an opportunity in the AFL and shows exactly what he has for his whole AFL career? Too many unanswered questions in regards to him yet for mine.

 

[TBellicious]

But Jones form has been so good in defence, and we have so many defenders better and more promising than him

 

[LordLucifer]

Bit harsh on Pickett and Cuningham. Polson gets a nod but not those two?

Also, I know you have a hard on for tall blokes Sheik, but that backline is too tall. Way too tall. Pull SOSOS out and replace with Williamson or Byrne. Move SOSOS up forward.

I am very unsure on Pickett and would prefer to err on the side of caution plus Cuningham just needs another game or two in the seniors.

As for being too top heavy, who did Plowman pick up in the Collingwood game ?? Blair..... some of our defenders can play on the shorter guys as well as those taller than they are.

 

[Jimmae]

So here's how I see the state of play with the back end of our list currently:

Probably gone: Armfield, White, Gallucci, Glass-McCasker

Probably elevated: Silvagni

Fighting for two list spots (one or both possibly via re-rookie): Gorringe, Phillips, Jaksch and Jones

Fighting for three list spots: Graham, Lamb, Buckley, Thomas, Boekhorst

Fate in their own hands: Sheehan, Korcheck, Casboult, Simpson

So that's likely 6 off the senior list, but as little as 5 and as many as 9.

 

[HARKER]

I'm wondering if its a short term blip in improvement? Can he maintain it for the season is the question. What if he is given an opportunity in the AFL and shows exactly what he has for his whole AFL career? Too many unanswered questions in regards to him yet for mine.

I've mentioned this a few times now but the main difference is his sustained efforts and four quarter efforts

He's not necessarily playing better, but just playing longer..................for now and subject to change.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I've mentioned this a few times now but the main difference is his sustained efforts and four quarter efforts

He's not necessarily playing better, but just playing longer..................for now and subject to change.

Agreed. Id like to see a sustained level over the whole season before Id high five a new contract for him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying an improvement in his game at all. Just want to see it sustained before I get all giddy about him.

 

[Malifice]

Given you didn't answer my question about attendance at Northern Blues games I take it the answer is No. Strong opinions for someone who doesn't make the effort!

Its a long flight from Perth to Melbourne mate to attend weekly VFL games.

I do check this website daily however, and read the reviews from Fraser and watch the highlights and read the match reports.

I refute your statement that I bag out most of the VFL players, or our players in the twos. I dont and never have. Can you find me an example of me doing it?

 

[Jimmae]

Its a long flight from Perth to Melbourne mate to attend weekly VFL games.

All 5 games are online, so you're not reading the threads that closely.

 

[Malifice]

So here's how I see the state of play with the back end of our list currently:

Probably gone: Armfield, White, Gallucci, Glass-McCasker

Probably elevated: Silvagni

Fighting for two list spots (one or both possibly via re-rookie): Gorringe, Phillips, Jaksch and Jones

Fighting for three list spots: Graham, Lamb, Buckley, Thomas, Boekhorst

Fate in their own hands: Sheehan, Korcheck, Casboult, Simpson

So that's likely 6 off the senior list, but as little as 5 and as many as 9.

I don't think we can afford to cut that many this year, and perhaps a year of stability might actually be good after the savage cuts of the past two years.

 

[ferrisb]

Jones form is so good might be offered new contract

A month ago, I'm not sure I'd ever seen a footballer more likely to be cut at year's end.

Still need to see him deliver in the seniors, but whatever happens from here, my hat's off to Liam for the stunning recent transformation.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

And how do you think Phillips went last year?

He was ok but I don't see him as part of the long term solution moreso a fill in ruck when our main is unavailable.

Watching the ball fly past his head time and time again v Port had alarm bells ringing for me. As a ruck you need to at least be able to make it a contest when in the air majority of the time.

 

[Jimmae]

I don't think we can afford to cut that many this year, and perhaps a year of stability might actually be good after the savage cuts of the past two years.

I'm anticipating another multi-player trade with GWS to fill that gap. I think the real number will be 7, with Silvagni's elevation giving us the option of 4-6 more to come onto the senior list (I expect 6, and at least 3 to come in that GWS trade).

If we keep our first pick and use our third on Penrith, then you're looking at one more draft pick.

 

[Malifice]

All 5 games are online, so you're not reading the threads that closely.

Bugger off. I read them. Im not going to spend 3 hours watching the twos. Im happy to read the reports from others.

Im a little irked at your tone there mate. Im a paying member of the club, and devoted enough to post on this site about it daily for a decade.

All Ive ****ing said (in a list managment thread no less) is that we should draft a tall forward to go with Mckay, so Wietering (the gun player called a once in a generation defender) can play down back where he has displayed markedy better form to date and to increase our odds of having a 60 goal KPF if Harry doesnt make it.

Im not going along with your group think, I think its a terrible idea to play a gun defender as a forward on anything other than a part time basis, or simply to see how he goes (as stupid as moving Cripps there). I am of the opinion that we need another quality key forward, and that if we dont get one, we may be left with forward line that is still as dysfunctional as it has been for the better part of the past decade since Walker kicked 60 odd goals (which was something I had been equally arguing for for the years prior), and Mick Malthouse inexplicably moved him back into defence and implemented a kick it along the boundary game plan.

Im being respectful to players and in the appropriate thread, I don't need or deserve your snide backchat just because I have differing opinions on how we should build the list (KPP first, then mids).

 

[Malifice]

I'm anticipating another multi-player trade with GWS to fill that gap. I think the real number will be 7, with Silvagni's elevation giving us the option of 4-6 more to come onto the senior list (I expect 6, and at least 3 to come in that GWS trade).

If we keep our first pick and use our third on Penrith, then you're looking at one more draft pick.

Whose Penrith? Arent we afer that Ballic bloke from Freo?

 

[Iamcarlton]

No shit. Like I'e been saying for ages, key forwards are as rare as hens teeth.



It is unarguably the worst forward line in the comp. 18th last year with a 3 foot tall DFA leading the goal-scoring with 22 majors, and 18th again this year. Brisbane have scored more than us. Its a running joke on Bigfooty that our ex players (Kennedy, Garlett, Waite and Betts) are scoring more than us most weeks.

Our forward line is rubbish, and our half forward line even worse.



Potential is a different argument entirely. But potential is hope. When discussing list management I dont want warm and fuzzies. I want good odds. I want contingencies. I want solid list management. I want redundancies.

I want every player to succeed, but I have to be pragmatic. This is a list management thread. In it we discuss delisting players (and this is their career here) and we have to do so in a pragmatic and respectful way.

And Weitering isnt a forward. He is a defender. No amount of you saying he's a forward will convince me otherwise.

McKay is a forward, but to date he hasnt shown anything, and may never come on. He could be the next Buddy; he could be the next Gumbleton. I dont know. At present he is a question mark. We wont know either way for another 2 years (it takes key forwards 3-4 years to come good, he was bottom aged, and spent a lot of time out last year with an injured back).

Again; I'm not cool (from a list management perspective) of putting all our eggs in one basket. As it stands at present with our key forward stocks we have to play Weitering up forward to cover for our lack of key forwards.

Thats OK while McKay develops. But what if he doesnt make it? Shouldnt we be looking to get in another KPP Forward? One that can do the job, releasing Weitering down back?

We have 2-3 years to find one, develop him and have him AFL ready (Alex Silvagni, Rowe and Simpson have 2-3 years left give or take)

I have confidence in our recruiting to fill any holes in the backline with later picks but the structure with Marchbank Macreadie Plowman Williamson Docherty and Byrne is more than fine going forward .
You might be better to disappear for a couple of years if your not prepared to give these young players time to develop in the forwardline . Branding our forwardline as rubbish with the likes of Weitering Charlie and Jack is disgraceful . Once again youve stated as gospel that Weitering is a defender which may or may not be the case long term but i guess he must because you said so . Our eggs are not all in one basket because we dont have to have 2 bona fide Key Forwards that kick 60 goals each to kick a winning score thats just naive to think that . When have we ever had that and how many premierships do we have ? Multiple goalkickers that can pressure the opposition defenders much more important .

 

[Malifice]

I am very unsure on Pickett and would prefer to err on the side of caution plus Cuningham just needs another game or two in the seniors.

Picket has the talent; I think its just a little getting it straight between the ears. The long lay off from injury couldnt have helped.

I reckon he would be dominating in a team with more I50's.

As for being too top heavy, who did Plowman pick up in the Collingwood game ?? Blair..... some of our defenders can play on the shorter guys as well as those taller than they are.

Macreadie, Marchbank, Plowman, Weitering works, but then you need 2 smalls/ mediums. Thats Docherty and Byrne for mine (presuming the latter comes back from injury OK).

If Weits showed us anything last year its that he's mobile. He was weaving through traffic with the best of them. Plowman is no slouch wither. Havent seen enough of Macca in close to comment. Marchbank doesnt look the most mobile of types. He's solid enough to perhaps be that 'monster' CHB to replace Rowe.

The other option is get Weits to bulk up, but then I fear we lose too much of that rebound and mobility.

 

[HARKER]

Balic on indefinite leave at Freo.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I don't think we can afford to cut that many this year, and perhaps a year of stability might actually be good after the savage cuts of the past two years.

Think we should continue to be savage with our delistings and trade aggressively. No point stopping now.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Balic on indefinite leave at Freo.

The bout of homesickness that's been mentioned before I'm assuming?

 

[Metalcrusher]

Balic on indefinite leave at Freo.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/fre...e/news-story/1d3307cd16ec57859ba3df55fe3cd0e0

 

[therubbernub]

Balic on indefinite leave at Freo.

Sos you magnificent batstard

 

[Funk]

Balic on indefinite leave at Freo.

Got a job at SOS's carwash???

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Think we should continue to be savage with our delistings and trade aggressively. No point stopping now.

the problem is all these players that had no future all of a sudden are showing signs of life. easy decisions all of a sudden aren't so easy

 

[Malifice]

I have confidence in our recruiting to fill any holes in the backline with later picks but the structure with Marchbank Macreadie Plowman Williamson Docherty and Byrne is more than fine going forward .

Moving Williamson up to a wing is the better option for mine. We can use his disposal going inside 50.

Weitering last year was better that any of those named, with the exclusion of Doc. He provides intercept marking and elite rebound, with an ability to read the play position himself in front of his opponent, and run off him ball in hand and use it well going forwards from defence.

You might be better to disappear for a couple of years if your not prepared to give these young players time to develop in the forwardline .

How does 'No' sound. And who on earth said I am not prepared to give these young players time to develop. Learn to read and stop putting words in my mouth.

Im more excited by the direction the club is heading than I have ever been. Im fully mindfull of the fact that Key Forwards take time.

My only argument is we shouldnt put all out eggs in the one basket. We are already talking about moving our best young defender up forward to plug a hole in the forward line caused because (at present) we lack enough of a KPF presence up forward. My line of reasoning is that is a bad idea on anything other than a temporary basis (unless Weits starts kicking bags on a weekly basis, then I might be swayed otherwise!). On exposed form Weits is a far better defender than he is a forward and out team would be much better with him in the backline starting thrusts forward from defence, than wasting away in the forward line contrinuting less than a goal a game.

Branding our forwardline as rubbish with the likes of Weitering Charlie and Jack is disgraceful .

I dont give a toss how disgraceful you find it. We have the worst forward line in the AFL by a considerable margin. We finished 18th for scoring last year, with a our leading goal kicker being a delisted free agent that kicked 22. We routinely struggled to score despite our defence being fantastic.

Weve been better this year, but thats largely on the back of Casbout kicking straighter. Last year he was beyond abysmal with his kicking. It was a raffle each time.

We sit 18th on points for and are still abysmal in our forward line. Brisbane has scored more than us and they're a rabble. We have one developing key forward (McKay) and have been forced to push a Key Defender (Weits) up forward to create another key position scoring opportunity.

Thats just objective fact. Im not prepared to raffle our future on 'potential' mate. McKay could come on (and I hope beyond hope that he does). But he might not and that leaves us in a very shitty position when the window opens.

We have all our eggs in one basket, and leaving it like that would be irresponsible list management. Fortunately I get the vibe that SOS thinks the same way I do, and is looking for another Key Forward, and soon, so we have two of the developing in the twos, and double the chances of having an effective and potent forward line in a few years time.

Once again youve stated as gospel that Weitering is a defender which may or may not be the case long term but i guess he must because you said so

Based on exposed form he is 10 times the defender than he is the forward. Dont talk to me about hypotheticals or potential or goblins or elves. I saw him play last year and he was disgustingly good as a 1st year defender. He had '10 year once in a generation defender' stamped all over him, based on exposed form.

I havent seen any marks on a a long lead full forward style. I havent seen him crashing packs like a CHF or running up the ground and doubling back or any other signs to date that he's going to be a gun forward.

Im working off exposed form. You're working off what you hope happens. I hope it happens too mate, but Im working off form and not blue colored glasses.

Our eggs are not all in one basket because we dont have to have 2 bona fide Key Forwards that kick 60 goals each to kick a winning score thats just naive to think that . When have we ever had that and how many premierships do we have ?

Lets start with 1995.

Kernahan kicked 63 and Brad Pearce kicked 52. The Premiership before that Kernahan kicked 73 that year.

Its got me ****ed why you're opposed to us having a gun key forward.

 

[LordLucifer]

the problem is all these players that had no future all of a sudden are showing signs of life. easy decisions all of a sudden aren't so easy

It's nice that these players have had the penny finally drop, the threat of being delisted can have that effect at times.

It is my belief that whilst there seems to be some urgency from them now, it won't be enough to save them all, a leopard just doesn't change its spots. Furthermore, I've always been of the opinion that SOS wants to build "his" list not panel-beat someone elses.

Added to that, with our urgent need being the securing of midfielders & forwards, anyone who is on the fringes but doesn't fall into that category will have to make way for players who do.