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Discussion in 'Fremantle' started by M_rash, Jan 6, 2017.
Candid,insightful,engaging as ever.
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Ross: "I think you're being a bit sensitive"
(Google Translate: "Caro, you're a dickhead")
How's Caro's form?
Thinks journos should be free to criticise the players and coaches for anything and everything, including their personal lives, including agitating for people to lose their jobs, but then gets hyper-sensitive when a few coaches dare voice what they think of the work journos do.
1600 paid journalists? Is that true? Because if so hoooooooly ****
Nobody is perfect .
Don't generally read her stuff,but for some reason thought she may have had a little more substance.
Why is she presented as the Grande Dame of sports journalism?Croneyism??AFL mouthpiece??
What a sanctimonious, superficial shower of shit.
Cornes and Lloyd hiding behind her frocks.
FFS!1600 of them who are no better than that!
Lyon was admirably restrained in the face of such a drivelling tirade.
Spot on, if you're willing to throw comments around about other people expect it to come back - couldn't believe she used the opportunity whilst Ross took the time to hang back in Melb and be apart of the show to launch an attack on him. Absolute low-life, wouldn't expect anything less from her though. Has to be up there as one of the most hated in the industry.
Surely she's taking the piss here? Hahahaha.
Huge opportunity missed for "you're quite Brilliant, Caro"
Full 30 min Ross interview
I think it's strange that Lyon is so careful not to criticise the umpires (who uphold the laws of the game) but thinks it's fair game to mock journalists (who represent the fans). Sure, mock them when they're deliberately provocative or unfair, but I can think of plenty of instances in pressers where Lyon has gotten a reasonable question and I wouldn't mind a direct answer, or at least some version of his views, and he wastes his answer belittling the questioner. I don't blame him, in that it's a classic diversion tactic (it's Trump's favourite way of avoiding scrutiny) but I'm surprised keen viewers of the game like we have here wouldn't all feel the same way.
What was so satisfying about the Lyon we got on Footy Classified last night was he gave answers to those thorny questions. He admitted there was at least some truth to the story about the confrontation between the coaches and senior players after the Port loss. He explained his line "we're not being showered with 1st round picks" was not a whinge to the AFL but an internal motivating message aimed at the club (right up to the top).
I'm interested in these questions and answers. I don't get why you'd waste time belittling the people who ask reasonable questions. If all you want to do is watch the game and leave it at that I don't know why you'd spend time coming on here.
Why are journalists so thin skinned?
He famously roasted Shane McInnes after the Geelong game, when the question was pathetic, disrespectful and stupid. One of the greatest victories by any team ever, and the first question was asking whether Lyon went outside the rules of the game? Shane got what he deserved. I also think he's a better journo for it now.
The complaint that Caro made about Lyon was when he made the penny dreadful explanation. I thought it was a very reasoned explanation of the competition that the media must undergo to get heard. How was that belittling a journalist?
I think both of us have probably got some confirmation bias going on. While you can think of plenty of times when Lyon spends his time belittling the questioner, apart from the "you're quite brilliant Shane" example, I can't think of any. Lyon typically gives more expansive answers than any other coach, but doesn't answer the same question multiple times - "I feel like I've already answered that question". no belittling there.
It's not as if he half threatened a commentator, like Hardwick did on Cornes.
At the end of the day Ross is only human (although some on here might dispute that) and some of his responses might be coloured by the emotion he is feeling at the time or an agenda you and I are not privy to. For the most part I find Ross to be enormously honest and expansive when dealing with the "non-WA" media, and last night was pretty typical of what we see on AFL 360, On the Couch etc.
Where I have noticed Ross particularly being guarded is on his local interviews with guys like Basil and Barich, and I for one don't blame him. These are guys who go out of their way at times to push a pro-Eagles / anti-Fremantle agenda and I think Ross carries out his contractual obligations but takes no pleasure from giving them anything he doesn't have to.
I also think Ross is fiercely defensive of our players, our club, and also of his personal integrity. When any of those things are questioned in what he might judge to be an unfair manner we get things like the "you're quite brilliant Shane" and the fact that he won't allow Whately to sit in on an interview with him after he called Lyon deceitful.
Call that childish, call it overly sensitive, I call it personality and I love the fact that we have a coach who is not straight out of the cookie factory. I don't expect him to answer every question posed by every hack journalist and whilst I sometimes cringe at his prickliness there's not a coach in the land I would prefer, including Clarkson. Because he's ours!
Contrast the respect he gets from the journalists in Melbourne with the thinly veiled barbs he gets in Perth. I did not see him asked one question last night about what he thinks of the Eagles, Nic Naitanui, or Matt Priddis' hair - and he behaved with great dignity, openness and intelligence.
Are they thin skinned? I wouldn't have thought so. I think Caro, as one of the most respected and senior footy writers in the country, probably felt it her responsibility to stand up for her colleagues. There's still some bitterness I reckon over what Malthouse got away with.
I rarely judge a coach for what they say post match. The adrenaline is flowing, the emotions are high and the dust hasn't settled. It's more the mid-week pressers that bother me. I've watched enough of them for it to be apparent that Ross is pretty patronising towards to WA mob (and I see Dudley also has noticed). And I'll admit it, I'm still miffed he stopped doing the Monday slot!
Difference for me is that she is standing up for 1,600 people, most of whom she probably doesn't even know, and many of whom are absolute knobs - not looking at you Brendan Foster, Kim Hagdorn etc - whereas Ross is generally defending himself or a bunch of players he is emotionally and vocationally invested in.
Caro had one objective and one only - to try to get a rise out of Ross so that she could make a few more headlines. Fortunately she failed - imagine if she had Hardwick sitting in front of here, I doubt she would have even had the guts to ask the question.
Personally, I wasn't affronted at all by the fact that Caro chose to attack Ross in her Arrow piece when he took the time to stay back because at least we got to hear his reply. It's the reams of disgusting, defamatory things she's written without bothering to get the version from the person she's defaming that sickens me about her. It demonstrates a total lack of journalistic integrity and a spiteful, malevolent, malignant nature.
I really didn't see that as her going after a rise. She only writes about top level stuff board, coach appointments and the like, and really isn't interested in that kind of thing. Given that she has had the guts to confront Eddie, and others who run the sport, I wouldn't question her courage or her reasons.
As for his reasons, I agree he's a top-rate coach and worth the million bucks a year he earns. Clarko is pretty good, but I don't know if there's anyone else you'd rather have either. I guess I just wish he'd take on board that as he becomes such a respected figure in the game how he talks to the media does matter.
And Lyon's right with the dig about being written off after rd 2 - being connected to the biggest job in the game at Collingwood is a measure of how much he's respected.
Agreed but if Goldy had kicked that goal on Sunday I may of felt differently. Lol
Don't want to get into a long argument about something we basically agree on, but I'll have one last chop then leave it at that.
She was absolutely going for a rise, that is her job - she is charged with being as controversial as she can so that Channel 9 gets publicity, viewers and revenue. If she wasn't going for a rise there were hundreds of other examples of coaches criticizing media she could have used rather than confronting the coach who had agreed to sit in on the show - however none of the others would have been able to react and give her a potential headline.
The other thing I would question is about the respect he is held in. For all the run ins he has had with the media over the journey he is held in very high regard by the media and they love having him on whenever they can get him. Contrast the number of times we see Ross on a TV football show against what Harvey would get, or Simpson gets - Ross is seen as a respected elder statesman of the game. Lloyd even said last night that Ross was "universally held in high regard" in the football world. The way he talks to the media matters, and it seems he's doing a pretty darn good job!
Anyway, we all see things differently and if one flavour suited everyone we'd all support the same team and the same coach. Play on
Reams of defamatory things? Really? Most people who hate her just seem to be Hird fans.
Ross isn't to blame for the club's relationship with the media. I know at the Saints they had the 'bubble' but that was more the players and the litany of off-field issues that followed them at the time. Fremantle for a while now has had a whole club policy of not speculating on, or discussing, confidential club business in the media. The reason being is explained below.
Freo's rough relationship with the media goes back a while now, probably post schwab/connolly.
The club felt the WA media had been out to get them because they love the Eagles and they felt the Vic media treated us as a joke club. Harvey and Connolly's obsession with conducting team selection, game reviews and recruiting plans in pressers didn't help at all, along with board members who leaked more than myself after a few plastic cups of watered down Great Northern.
Bond and Rosich led this charge to scale back all media involvement to the bare minimum due to the media causing us nothing but problems. The major turning point was the appointment of Luke Morfesse, an ex premier's media advisor who is well versed in the way the media can twist and turn interviews to suit their own agenda. He has had a massive influence on the club and everyone is now singing from the same hymn book, albeit a very controlled one.
Personally I am non plussed, the club is excellent at getting information to Members via more modern techniques.
TV and the print media are dying industries.
Whilst we no longer get the same amount of air time or our share of fluff pieces, we don't have to worry about coaches going on TV and getting stumped, the bloody F word or being sacked on the steps of the Duxton by a journo.
What? I have no issue with her work on James Hird, which was excellent. I'm talking about her body of work over the past decade and I specified the element of her modus operandi which I disapproved of. Plenty of non-Essendon football people find Wilson's methods utterly distasteful. Clarkson for good reason detests her with a passion. Her fellow commentator on 3AW, Leigh Matthews, has openly berated her for her unprofessionalism in failing to discuss with him her claims that Matthews was conflicted before going to press with her allegations. The baseless shit she wrote about Lyon when he left St Kilda was typical in its failure to inquire into Lyon's contractual situation or the goings-on at Board and CEO level at St Kilda that caused him to leave that hellhole in the first place. There was more than a little spite and payback from Wilson for being kept totally in the dark by Fremantle's failure to leak.
If you put lipstick on a vacuous self serving shrew......
Ross was pro and his response was perfect. Would have **** Caro that he didn't bite at all. Brilliant.
I am biased though, rate *most* journalists about the same as RE agents and car salesman. A real journalist does not try and make the story by inciting the interviewee.
It is interesting when you hear the more renowned journalists talking like they are doing everyone a service with their work but they are so ****ing transparent that their only concern is themselves. Robbo ****s me the most because on 360(he is better on radio - not good) he always focuses on the *tough* questions rather than the ****ing football. I don't give a **** what Lewis thinks about what other people think about him, talk about the ****ing football you moron.
Well known brilliant Journo and that talking footy Muppet are Rosco fans it seems.