Mega Thread 2017 Media Thread

Discussion in 'Fremantle' started by M_rash, Jan 6, 2017.

Put it out there
  1. Grandstan

    Grandstan Team Captain

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    Caro says it on radio or in a column and you'd bag her for not having the guts to say it to his face. She says it to his face, challenges him to a conversation about it and you bag her for trying to get a rise out of him.
    The people asking the questions aren't actually that important to me. I'm interested in the merit of their question. That's why I don't like it when Ross chooses to mock the person who, representing the fans, asks a reasonable question.
    I guess I'm out of touch with many here, who don't mention a single footy writer, whether it's Robbo, Caro, McInnes, McClure or the WA guys, or the apparent 1600 AFL journos (I reckon that figure is made up BTW) without telling us how inept they are.
    Personally, I watch the commentary and read a lot of the AFL stuff written and a fair chunk of it is informative and written by people who seem to love the game as much as I do. I'm grateful we don't depend on the AFL and the club for its sanitised version of events.
     
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  2. Whatname

    Whatname Club Legend

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    Personally I dont have any time for journo's or the print media in general, not just AFL.
    They manipulate facts to put their own agenda across.
    AFL journo's use the same playbook though as they make up stories with no evidence hoping that 1 will come up trumps.
    If proven wrong they make up some crap excuse or refuse to talk about their supposed "source"
    The only thing the media care about is creating controversy as nothing gets the media cycle cranking like scandal or fear.

    From a Freo POV, the media has treated our club like crap for a long time and now as a club, not just Ross, we dont trust them and give them very little. I applaud this as my loyalty lies to my football club not any journo or media organisation.
    As I have said before the club is excellent at putting actual information out on it's own platforms without the mayonnaise or false information that tends to come from a media report.
     
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  3. Grandstan

    Grandstan Team Captain

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    I'm not sure what agenda Robbo or Rohan Connolly or, ex-player pundits like Chris Judd or Wayne Carey have. Sure, sometimes they think something is a big deal that I or you may not or vice versa, but an agenda sounds like a conspiracy theory.
    I support the club, but who exactly? The board, the coach and the players all make mistakes, and any of them will be lucky to be there in 10 years. We judge their mistakes here - why wouldn't media pundits judge those mistakes too? If you don't think they make any mistakes or you don't think they hide important info I don't get why you'd come here.
     
  4. Clems Knee

    Clems Knee Norm Smith Medallist

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    Do you think Lyon lied about the 1600 figure? Why would he lie about such a thing? Martin Flanagan stated in 2013 that "There are as many accredited journalists covering AFL football as there are players. The ratio of footy journalists to journalists covering Canberra politics is about four to one." That meant that there were over 800 accredited journos. I wouldn't be surprised if that number has almost doubled in 4 years.

    I still don't get how you think that Lyon spends his time mocking AFL journos?? You earlier claimed that it happens countless times. I've never seen Lyon mock Basil for example, but plenty of posters here have imagined that "thank you for your interest" is mocking him, or is a sign of the disdain that we share with him. I think we are projecting in these cases, putting our opinions into his mannerisms.

    Your general argument that posters here too readily criticise all journos as being inept is a good one and I agree. As the Flanagan article suggested, AFL media have more competition to perform than the Canberra press gallery. Sometimes that leads to a race for the scoop, whether it's true or not, or for the controversial opinion, but it can also lead to quality, considered journalism. Caro is fearless, and has provided great coverage of the footy industry over the years, but she has also trodden on toes and crossed boundaries, which many will not forgive her for. It comes from being in the business so long.

    http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/inside-afls-pressure-cooker-20130802-2r4j4.html
     
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  5. Tommo

    Tommo Club Legend

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    I don't think it is so much agendas with all of them, but a minority do have them. They all have to do things to keep their jobs though, in the past it was paper sales, these days its clicks, and tweets. They have to be active all the time as people are hungry for info. It is only natural that if you want to keep your job a journalist would stretch the truth if it meant upping their clicks and or tweets. From my perspective freo is an easy target for Melbourne Journos looking to do that as there is no perceived kick back as we are on the other side of the country.
    I have a lot of time for those journalists that base their analysis on facts and observations not rumours and enuendo. Unfortunately, they don't all do this as some prefer to use click bait articles.
    There is no doubt that journalism has its members that like to sensationalise for their own benefit, but this is not a modern phenomenon.
     
  6. Joao

    Joao Club Legend

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    I agree with Whatname below too, this is not confined to AFL media. I don't trust them because they are human and it is in their interest NOT to give the truth more often than not.

    Caro's job is to write her opinion. If some coaches think the media writes drivel then that is their opinion just like Caro has one. I honestly can't tell the difference. The media behaves a certain way, the coaches comment and then the media takes offence. To me, if you don't like their opinion change because you are part of the problem. If you don't want to change that is fine but don't fill football talk with this crap. That is my opinion. I don't watch or listen to football shows to hear about stuff like that because I just don't care. I like football. Tactics, trades/draft, team selection etc are interesting. The rest is not to me.

    I don't have the slightest problem with journalists producing the crap they do as long as they stand by it. To get all defensive by trying to call out people for doing exactly what you do for a living is horse****. If you want to operate the way some (not all) do then accept that others are going to comment negatively on it.

    I am with Whatname below regarding it not being restricted to AFL media. It is all media.

    I do like some media personalities and some are not popular. Gary Lyon, Tim Watson and Nathan Buckley I have time for. Even if you don't agree with everything they say it is at least reasoned and not sensationalist.


    I do agree with most of this except I do have some empathy for the journalists that do ask reasonable questions and cop it at press conferences. Ross doesn't always do it but it's not fair. If they ask a stupid question or the same one twice that's fine.
     
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  7. Grandstan

    Grandstan Team Captain

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    I think the 1600 figure is an exaggeration, or else misleading. A couple of years ago the number was put at over 1000, but it mentions photographers, cameramen and production staff, who nobody really thinks of in that sense. The number probably includes communications teams at the AFL and the clubs. But I guess the substantive point holds, that there is more scrutiny than ever. Because there is more money and the sport is bigger than ever.
    The Lyon stuff is about perception, and I guess we have differing views. I haven't got time atm to hunt around for evidence, though I think his attitudes go way back, before he started at St Kilda. He's a hard working guy, but I hold him to a high standard cos he's an elder statesman of the game these days.
     
  8. Clems Knee

    Clems Knee Norm Smith Medallist

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    I think if you hunted around for evidence that Lyon demeaned reporters at conferences, you'd have the same amount of evidence as you have now. I know he sometimes questions what a reporter means. I'll use the example of the litmus test question, which many took as being mocking or disrespectful. I think it was Lyon being careful about the language he uses. A Litmus test is a yes or no question. If we lose draw a line through the list, if we win we are contenders. Single football games aren't that critical, which is why he wasn't keen to answer the question in those terms. Yet he still gave time to addressing the question by checking what the journo meant.

    I also hold him to a high standard, and I think he holds himself to a high standard.
    You don't see Lyon yell at journos and call them spastics (Worsfold), or threaten commentators (Hardwick). He also refuses to criticise umpiring even when he has good cause to, unlike Beveridge, Hardwick, the Scott brothers and Clarkson. And he doesn't coach a team of Mr Flappys who seek to influence umpiring decisions throughout every game like Simpson and Chris Scott.
     
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  9. Whatname

    Whatname Club Legend

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    You can use the term conspiracy theory but I have no doubt all media has an agenda, this is driven by the companies they work for or their own personal feelings. Have a look at the Football media, most of it is based in Melbourne and have little to no interest in our club aside from trying to claim Lyon's scalp.

    The reason I come here is to discuss football with like minded supporters who don't get sucked into the media line and try and remove the blinkers from some who do.
    For example, the criticism that has been levelled at Ross by some in the media is so unfounded it's not funny. Let's start with his whole "don't play yoof" line. This has been bandied about for the last 18 months but in this time the club has blooded many new players while still looking after the senior players on the list. Those who actually know football are well aware you just can't send a team of 20 year olds out onto an AFL field, you need balance.
    What also annoys me is that if the media did their research they would see we have actually been blooding young players since 2013, albeit with 1 top 10 pick (Logue).

    Then have a look at our brand new facility, apparently there was a news piece on CH 7 Perth but I failed to see one mention of our cutting edge facility and how it is the best and biggest in the comp on the mainstream football news sites. Reason being it doesn't fit the narrative the football media want to drive that we are a crap club and Ross is out to ruin us.

    Anyway you keep reading your fav Journo's diatribe and I will listen to the club, sorry but I trust them a hell of a lot more than any media organisation.
     
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  10. Crippa

    Crippa Club Legend

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    Wilson agreed with that figure when Lyon stated it.

    To suggest Lyon lied about the 1600 figure or exaggerated or sought to mislead is contrary to the evidence, if you accept Wilson as an authority on the issue. which I do.
     
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  11. Grandstan

    Grandstan Team Captain

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    It's really a minor point. I'm just saying that I don't think there's 1600 journos turning up at press conferences. Watch on a Friday night and you'll recognise most of them. I do agree it's tough being a coach and there's a lot of scrutiny. Luckily they get paid about $1million a year to do it.
     

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  12. Crippa

    Crippa Club Legend

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    I find it weird that you keep focussing on "ineptitude" in relation to the journalists you've named (none of whom show up at press conferences) when the issue with them is professional integrity - a subject you've conveniently skirted each time it has been raised except to question the integrity of the object of their venom.
     
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  13. Nolo180

    Nolo180 Senior List

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    I agree and think Ross has a good approach to the media. He recognises and acknowledges they have a job to do. He gives them some answers to work with but when he hears garbage he calls them out on it or when baited he withholds comment in order to not fuel the fire.

    He seems to always be available to the media on game day (had Healey in the box just before the bounce the other day) but during the week when the media (CH7 Barra,Zempilas etc) is looking for something else to talk about to keep the news cycle going he holds back which I don't have a problem with.

    When you think about it he's no Kevin Sheedy but he's no Malthouse either. He's somewhere in between which is great and would probably make a good politician one day.

    Caro thinks she is the AFL's moral compass or something but at the end of the day she's paid to make a comment and Ross is paid to win games of footy. The only reason they deal with each other is because the $$$ that pays Rosco's and the players wages comes from interest in the game that the journo's publicity helps create.

    He meets his media obligations that don't distract from the teams footy. And every time you see his cheeky smile you know straight away the journo's and they're mostly boring, crappy and mundane questions to get sound bites are a necessary evil but ultimately it leaves you knowing who's in control and gives you confidence in the guy.

    (Although Clem I sometimes wish he would comment on the umpiring but his experience & confidence with the media tells me he knows it would be an expensive losing battle that would do more harm than good. It would just take the focus away from trying to get better at things they can actually control like playing good footy)
     
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  14. Big Animal

    Big Animal Club Legend

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    This sums it up beautifully for me.
     
  15. salim malik

    salim malik Brownlow Medallist

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    Ross doesn't suffer fools. If the media ask intelligent questions and he respects them he responds positively. If they are the Hagdorns,Basils of the world.........;):p
     
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  16. stax on the mull

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
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  17. Grandstan

    Grandstan Team Captain

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    Demeaned? That's your word. My thinking is more "was too often unnecessarily shitty with". (Which pretty much summarises the litmus test reaction.) I don't have space here to post everyone who has called Ross grumpy, unforgiving or unpopular with the media, it goes back 10 years. And anyone who thinks Caro was the first or is unusual in making the claim is being disingenuous. And don't bring up Simpson or B.Scott by comparison, remember I said I judge him as a highly respected figure in the game. ;-)

    But moving forward, I did find some interesting links.

    Martin Blake, who loves Ross, reflecting on how he shoots people down unnecessarily. But Blake, like most informed people knows that Ross is very good at what he does and is good value. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/afl/2015/05/14/ross-lyons-genius-needs-flag/

    A classic Ross burn that gets the chuckles, except it's for no reason on some country guy who just wanted to hear Ross's words of wisdom. http://au.thenet24h.com/382323/flas...cameron-newbold-copped-vintage-ross-lyon-resp

    A perspective on the Shane spray that highlights the hypocrisy of being all I respect umpires then going on TV and disrespecting someone for a sincere if imperfect question. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lyons-shocker-his-own-work-20130914-2trtv.html

    Saints fans in 2011 reflecting on why they were considered the least media friendly club in the AFL. More than one think it was Lyon. http://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72722
     
  18. Clems Knee

    Clems Knee Norm Smith Medallist

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    You used the term "belittling" which to me means much the same as "demeaned". Now you are saying that belittling just means "unnecessarily shitty". Okay.

    Your links confirm to me that journos are thin-skinned little petals.

    The Martin Blake link accuses him of shooting down guestioners regularly, and quotes a playful exchange with Quartermaine.

    The country guy asked a question after Lyon had finished his press conference after the preseason game at Mt Barker. The question: "Do you think you're tracking pretty well for round 1?". Lyon's reply was "I dunno. Interpret the press conference and make a judgement." Not much of a bake.

    I have conceded the Shane McInnes exchange. It was extraordinary, and you will never find another exchange like it from Lyon.
    Then again, there has never been another game like that final at Kardinya Park. The background of being treated so disgracefully by the AFL, and still being able to overcome such odds, and then being told that he targeted players physically when the expected question might be something like "is this the greatest victory in the history of the Fremantle Football club?" The exchange doesn't appear to have hurt Shane's brilliant career. But you've used this one incident to call him a hypocrite. Seems a stretch.

    I didn't bother reading the whole conversation on Saintsational, but I read the OP. In 2011, Quartermaine claimed that Collingwood were the best and most welcoming club with regards to being media friendly, and the Saints were the worst by far. At the time Mick Malthouse was the coach of Collingwood. Now if you want belittling press conferences, Mick is your man. It just doesn't add up that this perception is anything to do with the coaches.

    Bottom line is, I enjoy watching Freo press conferences. Which I didn't in Harvey's time. Of the other coaches, Beveridge often has good interesting conferences, but I can't think of too many others that have, unless the game was a train wreck.
     
  19. Crippa

    Crippa Club Legend

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    Wow, really scraping the bottom of the barrel there if you have to resort to quoting from a Saints fans' website one week after Ross "abandoned" their club and they were out for a lynching.

    And please - defending Shane McInnes for asking a "sincere" question???? McInnes is a fanatical Geelong supporter who had one aim and one aim only in opening the presser by asking that disgraceful pseudo-question - namely, to place an asterisk against a historic win by suggesting that Freo's tactics for defeating his beloved Cats involved a directive to the players to act like thugs and cheats. The bloke was acting like a sore loser seeking to ingratiate himself with his club not an unbiased reporter. I'm surprised you can't see that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
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  20. Grandstan

    Grandstan Team Captain

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    Crippa, think you're going a bit hard on this. My main point was that Caro isn't Robinson Crusoe in noticing the issue. I thought the Saints fans on the link were respectful on the whole, they just reflect what we all should acknowledge, that Lyon is something of a media curmudgeon.
    On Shane, I bought into the us vs the AFL thing too at the time after that disgraceful fixturing at Geelong. I reckon the piece I linked acknowledges Lyon's grievances. I don't have particular views on Shane, though it seems like it might have actually been a sincere question. I'm just asking whether so much anger directed at someone on TV respects the game the way Ross talks about respect otherwise.
     
  21. scon

    scon Brownlow Medallist

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    A carmudgeon..FFS.
    When Ross appeared 'On the Couch' they had a convivial replay of 'You're quite brilliant Shane!'
    Amongst the mirth Lyon itemised all the things mentioned by Cripp and Clem ,save Shane's Geelong support.
    He outlined the context of being 'railroaded' down there by the AFL,the physicality of that Geelong team, both generally and during that game....etc etc.Think he may have described it as one of the club's great victories.
    Then mentioned that after being in the cauldron of 4 hrs of intense contested footy the first question suggests we bashed 'em up!!
    It may be in here I haven't checked:
    Lyon on the couch (part one) - fremantlefc.com.au

    Shane copped a clip he'd earned and I'd be surprised if he was whinging about it like Caro's Arrow suggested he might.
    If he is he has learned nothing from failing and being offered some feedback.
    The impression I have from Lyon's pressers is that you'll get as good as you give.If you've got a simplistic Q it'll be answered accordingly while a thoughtful Q will get a considered response.
    I really feel he's educated a few and the standard has lifted.Seems to have a pretty good rapport with the majority.
    People like Barich and Zempilas,they are beyond help.

    [​IMG]
    Lyon's plans for Bennell
    Barich is probably the most experienced WA based AFL journalist!!
    Not a Q that hadn't already been answered in earlier interviews.

    Mindless.
    Gloated when he ambushed Damian Drum in a stairwell to ask him if he knew he was sacked.
    Missed an Arrow from Caro.
    Industry with very low standards and no room for sanctimony.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  22. Grandstan

    Grandstan Team Captain

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    In terms of what individuals learn, they seem to regard a run-in with Ross as a badge of honour. He's a great of the game, hard working, entertaining and smart and the journos must know that tangling with him requires homework.
    But don't you think that when he mocks them for not knowing details it seems unfair - he's got a massive club and support staff feeding him data and he's taking the piss out of some kid holding a microphone.
     
  23. scon

    scon Brownlow Medallist

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    Are you suggesting you've seen this??
    Not only have I not seen it, I think it most unlikely to occur.

    The journos are paid a salary or maybe subsidise an income as a freelance.
    They need to do their homework if they are to be respected,same as any field.
     
  24. Crippa

    Crippa Club Legend

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    Yes it does, for the following reason. When a reporter like Shane, whose questions are broadcast on TV, disrespects the game by questioning the integrity of our coach and players with no proper basis and contrary to the evidence of his senses (since it was plain for all to see that Geelong even before the first bounce had set out to rough up our players), reacting with outrage to his outrageous false allegation equates to a demand that reporters show respect for the game.
     
  25. gaskin

    gaskin Brownlow Medallist

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    And when other media people backed Ross in the aftermath you knew Ross had every right to have a go at Shane.