- Jun 30, 2014
- 10,169
- 5,512
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Banned
- #476
double to the next club? look at all the other clubs numbers, the the hawks!
Official Club Stuff 2017 Membership Tally
- Thread starter dave10
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Not really. Why Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon have twice as many supporters as Dogs, Saints and North? Because they have won heaps more premierships. Simples. Kids like winners. Grand Finals = supporters. That is so obvious and have been for 120 years. There is a generational lag, we jumpers up 20 years after the 80s. There will be another jump in adult Hawthorn members in 20 years. The big clubs are the ones the win premierships. So obvious.
smasha
It's Time!
The big one,Richmond ,the only club that is huge without a flag for thirty seven years!
That is why there is a fear if we do win one.
Plan b is now into action,the pumping of Richmond's tyres.
Four walls,Tiges.
That is why there is a fear if we do win one.
Plan b is now into action,the pumping of Richmond's tyres.
Four walls,Tiges.
- Jun 30, 2014
- 10,169
- 5,512
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Banned
- #479
those clubs fan bases were built up over 90 to 100 years. the hawks junior membership base is double that of those larger clubs
smasha
It's Time!
Hawks definately ,the gen y/z club of choice,you can brag to your mates and be a snob about all the premierships while eating your avocado sandwiches looking down on the Tiger with his cheese and vegemite.
It just proves that Hawthorn supporters are the most loyal - they join up even if they can't get to games. Drive around the eastern suburbs if you doubt our membership. When my Collingwood supporting wife and I moved from inner city to Blackburn, her first comment was 'my god there are Hawthorn supporters everywhere. It is true. I bet her that we would see more Hawthorn membership stickers on cars than all other clubs combined. I was wrong - we did a count and it was Hawthorn 17 and other clubs 20, but there is no doubting how many members we have if you open your eyes.
Also, my kids attended three different schools in the east. On footy day they wear their colours and make a gold coin donation. Over nine years at three different schools, Hawthorn 'won'. Kids love winners and they love Hawthorn.
- Moderator
- #482
so they are better at it?
Correct. You don't think there was a jump in schoolkids following Collingwood when they won four in a row? Do you think that may have given them a boost? Memberships are auditors and all other Vic clubs except 2 offer the same. If you think Hawthorn's membership department is so smart that they are the only ones who can 'fudge' the figures, then perhaps they are also smart enough to engage and sign up more members.
Or perhaps it is simple as this...
The whole reason we are No.1 for members but only No.5 for crowds is because we have so many junior members. I'll use my family as the example - 2 adults, 6 juniors.
- for night or twilight games the 4 kids under 6 stay home
- The older ones have Saturday and Sunday sport so sometimes only go to night games
- if I can't go, there are 4 empty reserved seats
- On average there are 4 of us in our 8 seats
- none of our kids are imaginary or made up. They all barrack for Hawthorn. As will their kids in 20 years.
Maybe they are "better at it" in some way but that's the point. They haven't proprtionaletly doubled (apparently compared to their own as well as every other club) their junior members based any more than marginally on on field success. It is both ridiculous and illogical to assume or conclude that they are. Do these kids not have parents?
Overwhelmingly the jump in numbers is due to some very successful and very very targeted marketing approach at juniors (that could see their numbers increase at a far higher rate than adults), some difference in classification or both.
I've been to both Collingwood hawthorn games this year and definetly didn't get a lord of the flies feel about hawthorn with multitudes of unaccompanied minors running around.
A bit off topic regarding how big Collingwood are as well as Essendon, Richmond and Hawthorn but for Sunday's game Melbourne v St.Kilda the mcc have given away 20,000 tickets to the game. Would expect 60-65,000 to the game if that is the case
- Oct 2, 2008
- 8,898
- 18,482
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Brothers of Destruction
The fact Richmond have the second most junior members is mind boggling with the struggles they've had on field. A very special club that people are quick to undermine. Any other club with Richmonds lack of success, folds. We didn't and no one admits it, but that doesn't make it mean any less. I'm so proud of our supporter base, I don't need to measure dicks, I don't need to undermine any other club. I just know Richmond is special. The theme song, the colours, the feeling at the mcg after a special win, the momentum and sheer excitement our club brings to the game can't be measured it stats. Richmond are special, when Richmonds up and about the competition is better for it. Anyone who denies this is simply a hater...it also doesn't make any other club mean less.This. Hawthorns junior numbers have been great for years. The last breakdown of memberships (club by club) was issued in 2014 - Hawthorn have double the junior members of everyone else - almost 1/3rd of the total. Note as well the number of non access memberships held by Collingwood (12k), Essendon (15k) and Richmond (8k) compared to Hawthorn (120). (The last two annual reports havent had any such breakdowns included)
- Moderator
- #489
Now if the rest of your clubs supporters didnt need to "measure dicks" Id be a lot happier
Ned_Flanders
Make me an Admin!
- Aug 22, 2009
- 77,158
- 142,364
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- 76'ers
Steer clear of the attendance thread then, its rulers at 100 paces
- Oct 2, 2008
- 8,898
- 18,482
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Brothers of Destruction
But you see, it's that generalisation...by nonetheless a moderator that triggers this unnecessary bickering. Your comment pretty much clumped all Richmond supporters together. 'Now if the rest of your clubs supporters...' I reckon we've got probably 10-15 guys on BF that are keen. And mainly everyone else is fine. The people on the other side of the discussion should stop dramatising it, it's not that big of an issue. Haha
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #492
i find the need of any poster to be negative about another clubs membership numbers a little weird
at the end of the day it's a big part of keeping the competition viable, so the more people who pay a club directly the better, whether they then turn up to games is of less concern than if they never paid for a membership as the club is getting some financial support
the annoying thing is not all memberships are equal, reporting of numbers and $$ is not consistent across all clubs so people assume shady practices and it becomes yet another yard stick for my club is better than yours, or yours cheated etc
at the end of the day if people are paying money to support my club I'm happy, I want more people to pay because I want my club to have a secure future, I want people to turn up to games so we get better home fixtures, but I've been to more away games than home games this year just due to family commitments so I understand people not rocking up and don't really have an issue with it overall
- Oct 2, 2008
- 8,898
- 18,482
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Brothers of Destruction
Yeah completely agree with you dude. I'm not keen to dick measure with Hawthorn. I admire the steps they've taken to strengthen the club and indirectly through their success, we've reaps the rewards by picking a coach who assisted there and he's gotten us into the 8 more times than our previous 8 coaches combined!! The reason why I'm not keen to put down other clubs is because I feel we lost history when Fitzroy merged. The blackest day in our sport and I don't care if they didn't have the supporters, that's 100 years of history bastardised. It should never happen again, the league is rich enough to ensure each club can thrive. When people pay for memberships, regardless of whether they go or not, or much it's worth or not, just means there's another person who cares. And that's great!
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
Most kids are fans of the team that their parents support, and that's exaggerated when parents are the only ones that can buy memberships.
I would suggest that kids that are more likely to support Hawthorn because of their success, come from families which the parents aren't particularly strong footy fans, therefore aren't supporting of the team that their parents are. In that case, these parents are less likely to buy kids/family memberships, because they're not simply footy fans, even if their kids are.
As such wouldn't the "success breeds fans" work against the membership argument, not for it? That even if what people are saying is true, doesn't actually translate to the membership number differential to the extent that it's double the size of the next club?
Like experiences when I was a primary aged school kid and a mad Dogs fan because of my family, and you'd talk footy, there'd always be a number of kids who would "support" whatever team happened to have won the flag or whatever, but it's not like their family are the ones who are buying memberships and the like.
Just my two cents.
I would suggest that kids that are more likely to support Hawthorn because of their success, come from families which the parents aren't particularly strong footy fans, therefore aren't supporting of the team that their parents are. In that case, these parents are less likely to buy kids/family memberships, because they're not simply footy fans, even if their kids are.
As such wouldn't the "success breeds fans" work against the membership argument, not for it? That even if what people are saying is true, doesn't actually translate to the membership number differential to the extent that it's double the size of the next club?
Like experiences when I was a primary aged school kid and a mad Dogs fan because of my family, and you'd talk footy, there'd always be a number of kids who would "support" whatever team happened to have won the flag or whatever, but it's not like their family are the ones who are buying memberships and the like.
Just my two cents.
I believe those tickets are only for people who wouldnt go to a footy game ie international passport holders etc so would probs only attract another couple of thousand.
- Moderator
- #496
Six clubs recorded membership losses: West Coast (down 0.19 per cent), Port Adelaide (3 per cent), Fremantle (1.2 per cent), North Melbourne (10.4 per cent), Brisbane Lions (8.2 per cent) and Gold Coast (9.2 per cent).
The 10 clubs that set records included Essendon, Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond and Western Bulldogs.
A total of 7192 AFLW memberships were included in the figures.
Essendon’s increase of 10,274 members, the largest in total number, shows the club’s resilience after the banning of players for drug offences.
The Bulldogs increased their membership by 8194 (20.8 per cent).
Nice to see North reclaim the "Victorian" Membership Wooden Spoon.
- Moderator
- #498
The interesting part of this is the difference between some clubs reported members and the AFL audit numbers.
Adelaide drop from 72,950 down to 56,865 - a drop of 16,085 members.
Port Adelaide drop from 60,000 down to 52,129 - a drop of around 7,000 members.
RussellEbertHandball
The only other club doing more than a thousand member drop is Geelong at 1,150 - the rest are a couple of hundred or less on their reported figures at july 31.
Adelaide drop from 72,950 down to 56,865 - a drop of 16,085 members.
Port Adelaide drop from 60,000 down to 52,129 - a drop of around 7,000 members.
RussellEbertHandball
The only other club doing more than a thousand member drop is Geelong at 1,150 - the rest are a couple of hundred or less on their reported figures at july 31.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Both clubs count the 8,000 AOSMA Footy members like they both counted Footy Park Category 1 members ie access to 22 games. The AFL let both clubs get away with it between 1997-2013. Both clubs used to get paid from the SANFL for this category 1 membership, the equivalent AFL clubs got paid for AFL Club Support membership amount.
They changed their mind with the move to AO and in the previous years Adelaide get to count approx 5,000 in their official AFL audited figures and Port only are allowed to count approx 3,000 in their official AFL audited figures. Rather than tick a box like AFL Club Support memberships the SMA are too *en lazy to ask their members to do this, and a 35/65 allocation occurs.
The payment from the AO memberships the equivalent of what the AFL paid to clubs the AFL Club Support membership, has never occurred at AO. In 2014 the clubs got zero. In 2015 the adult membership went up by $100 and the 2 clubs split this $50 each. The clubs also split the increase in the Concession memberships and Junior memberships over the 2014 fees.
So Port's figures adjusted for this would be 52.1k + 5k = 57.1k. So where do the other 2.9k come from as Port's membership count was 60,022 last Friday. Port sell baby memberships for $25 and some kids memberships with no game access for $40. The AFL don't count them because they are less than $50. 2 or 3 years ago I checked Hawthorn's kid memberships and the cheapest were $51 ie with non access so they are included in their official AFL audited total. Each year the club sells 300 pet memberships. They are eliminated by the AFL.
Port Adelaide Magpies only memberships are counted by the club but not the AFL. Last year the total difference after adjusted for AO memberships was 1.8k. I'm not sure why after this AO members adjustment this year, the difference has jumped to 2.9k.
The crows count about 12,000 free e-memberships.
Edit I first said 15k free e-memberships but it would be 12k + 3k AOSMA Footy members adjustment.
They started that last year and got about 10,000 freebie members last year. You have to supply a name, email address and date of birth and you are a We Fly as One member. You get some very basic benefits for this but you probably end up being marketed to by crows sponsors, so its clever engagement. See
http://www.afc.com.au/Membership/specialty-memberships/we-fly-as-one
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- Moderator
- #500
Cheers RussellEbertHandball - always good to get an explanation where possible
