Analysis 2017 Midfield Structure

[JustaBattler]

Only four spots for a team that finished so low?

Plowman Marchbank Weitering
Docherty Rowe Simpson(Byrne)

these are all done and dusted positions filled ( depth in Buckley, White, Sheehan, McCreadie, etc)

XXX Cripps C.Cuninham/C.Curnow
Kreuzer/Phillips Murphy Gibbs

That will be pretty much my starting mid six
Forward line pretty much obvious for now...

Smedts Casboult Palmer
SOJ (resting ruck) Wright

IC: SPS/Pickett E,.Curnow XXX

not so many spaces left.... 3-4 max from my starting lineup

Kerridge/Thomas all with pretty good chance for a position...

Boekhurst? dont think he is better than Sumner - just watch this pocket rocket this year- go harder and even faster for longer...will surprise a lot of supporters just how good he could be - Buckley and Armfield have at as much if not more credibility as AFL players and what they bring to each game week in week out compared to Boekhurst - so far.

He would be pretty worried about his status at the Club I reckon - Pickett SPS /Smedts/Fisher - thats a whole new bunch of talent he has to beat to play firsts and that is not throwing Thomas/Kerridge into the mix.

 

[ShanDog]

Disagree. Runs backwards or sideways when he has the ball. Avoids contact. Only had the one chase down tackle.

Cream player with no cake.

 

[bluegus]

I would like us to have more of a squad mentality when it comes to our rucks. As neither Kreuzer or Phillips offer enough up forward or anywhere but the ruck I think that playing both restricts us too much. I would prefer to just play the one and have them ruck 80% of the time. I also think that it is unrealistic to expect one of them to be able to do this for an entire season. I would be interchanging them, play a few games then after maybe a short turn around, long road trip, fatigue or niggles bring the other in. Play them three to four games then rest them. Could pay off towards the back of the season. Also if one does get injured his replacement has already played some senior footy with the team. It's a bit outside the box but hey innovate or get left behind.
If both get injured we're screwed, don't rate our other options

 

[HyphensBack]

I would like us to have more of a squad mentality when it comes to our rucks. As neither Kreuzer or Phillips offer enough up forward or anywhere but the ruck I think that playing both restricts us too much. I would prefer to just play the one and have them ruck 80% of the time. I also think that it is unrealistic to expect one of them to be able to do this for an entire season. I would be interchanging them, play a few games then after maybe a short turn around, long road trip, fatigue or niggles bring the other in. Play them three to four games then rest them. Could pay off towards the back of the season. Also if one does get injured his replacement has already played some senior footy with the team. It's a bit outside the box but hey innovate or get left behind.
If both get injured we're screwed, don't rate our other options

Also don't prefer the two rucks - maybe if the second ruck is Harry M in a couple of years but at present neither of our two rucks provide enough up forward and it makes our forward line too immobile

 

[ianh]

Agree that 2 rucks slows the forward line down, but the problem is a lack of options as second ruck. If Harry comes on or Gorringe shows something, or someone can hold down CHF and Casboult or even Rowe if not needed down back can fill that FP/2nd ruck role we would be better off. But that's a big if and I wouldn't be pinning my hopes on any of that. As for the resting of rucks throughout the season it is not a bad idea given that neither Kreuzer nor Phillips has shown out to the point where they are the clear choice. It might be harder to do frequently if one or the other establishes themselves over the other, but even then the "general soreness" week off once or twice is now pretty standard practice.

 

[Soapy V]

Agree that 2 rucks slows the forward line down, but the problem is a lack of options as second ruck. If Harry comes on or Gorringe shows something, or someone can hold down CHF and Casboult or even Rowe if not needed down back can fill that FP/2nd ruck role we would be better off. But that's a big if and I wouldn't be pinning my hopes on any of that. As for the resting of rucks throughout the season it is not a bad idea given that neither Kreuzer nor Phillips has shown out to the point where they are the clear choice. It might be harder to do frequently if one or the other establishes themselves over the other, but even then the "general soreness" week off once or twice is now pretty standard practice.

I would be very tempted to try what the Bulldogs have done. Their attitude is if a ruck can't do a lot more than tap the ball they aren't worth it. It's why when they came to finals they still didn't play Minson even though most thought a big bodied ruck would be needed.

Kruezer I believe is severely limited and doesn't have enough tricks and Phillips needs to improve his mobility. Neither had big effects on games this season.

So why don't we try Gorringe & Rowe rotating up forward with Harry McKay as a third option. Their size and mobility would be handy and it gives us great flexibility. The game has changed. With our new mosquito fleet and a very talented young defence it may be the way to go.

 

[Arr0w]

I would be very tempted to try what the Bulldogs have done. Their attitude is if a ruck can't do a lot more than tap the ball they aren't worth it. It's why when they came to finals they still didn't play Minson even though most thought a big bodied ruck would be needed.

Kruezer I believe is severely limited and doesn't have enough tricks and Phillips needs to improve his mobility. Neither had big effects on games this season.

So why don't we try Gorringe & Rowe rotating up forward with Harry McKay as a third option. Their size and mobility would be handy and it gives us great flexibility. The game has changed. With our new mosquito fleet and a very talented young defence it may be the way to go.

Interesting argument actually, especially when you put together a better competitive, combative midfield. Last 4 GF's have been won with the following premiership ruck pairs

2013 - Bailey - Hale
2014/15 - McEvoy - Hale
2016 - Roughead - Boyd

Gorringe is certainly more mobile than Phillips and Kruezer

 

[Coona Blues]

I would be very tempted to try what the Bulldogs have done. Their attitude is if a ruck can't do a lot more than tap the ball they aren't worth it. It's why when they came to finals they still didn't play Minson even though most thought a big bodied ruck would be needed.

Kruezer I believe is severely limited and doesn't have enough tricks and Phillips needs to improve his mobility. Neither had big effects on games this season.

So why don't we try Gorringe & Rowe rotating up forward with Harry McKay as a third option. Their size and mobility would be handy and it gives us great flexibility. The game has changed. With our new mosquito fleet and a very talented young defence it may be the way to go.

It is intriguing that the Clarkson coaching disciples have an interesting take on his tenets. Bolts has maintained the religious Hawthorn model of two genuine rucks, whereas Beveridge has departed from his mentor's model to take on hybrid types contributing more to general play.

I remain certain there is not a place for all of Kreuzer, Phillips and Casboult in the one team. Would be in favour of using Levi as a second ruck option rather than a legitimate KPF, but really have fingers crossed for big Harry to claim a permanent best 22 spot ASAP. No, I don't see Harry as the second ruck, KPF taking the occasional forward throw in/bounce......maybe, (which returns us to the two ruck model?)

I remain perplexed at your devotion to Gorringe, Soapy. Needs some massive improvement to claim a spot in the seniors. A little like KJ, I
do not dispute he has ability/potential, but there comes a time when they must step up or make way.

While it can be argued that there is a model in the modern game that may allow a side to be competitive without a dominant ruck, there is
no substitute for silver service to the midfielders and a marking presence around the park.

 

[BlueGum]

I hope Gorringe comes on, but last season I didn't think he showed many ruck capabilities. IIRC against Norf and Aints he was just moved off the line of the ball, and the opposition rucks put it down the throat of their mids. It'd be fantastic for our flexibility if he could do a bit more in some short ruck rotations - from wing/forward.

 

[Soapy V]

Interesting argument actually, especially when you put together a better competitive, combative midfield. Last 4 GF's have been won with the following premiership ruck pairs

2013 - Bailey - Hale
2014/15 - McEvoy - Hale
2016 - Roughead - Boyd

Gorringe is certainly more mobile than Phillips and Kruezer

plus how many good sides use two pure rucks?

adelaide use jacobs & jenkins
gws use mumford supported by lobbe & patton
swans use nakervis supported by tippett and tippett was probably more effective in the ruck
north use goldstein supported by petrie or brown
cats have smith supported by blicavs
upcoming sides like melbourne have used gawn supported by pederson or dawes & the saints have had hickey and at times went without a ruck when he rested.

all of those sides have had other rucks sitting in their reserves.

the theory seems to be if you have a top ruck use them supported by tall forward but if you don't have an influential ruckman use two mobile players.

 

[Soapy V]

I remain certain there is not a place for all of Kreuzer, Phillips and Casboult in the one team. Would be in favour of using Levi as a second ruck option rather than a legitimate KPF, but really have fingers crossed for big Harry to claim a permanent best 22 spot ASAP. No, I don't see Harry as the second ruck, KPF taking the occasional forward throw in/bounce......maybe, (which returns us to the two ruck model?)

I remain perplexed at your devotion to Gorringe, Soapy. Needs some massive improvement to claim a spot in the seniors. A little like KJ, I
do not dispute he has ability/potential, but there comes a time when they must step up or make way.

i remember being told by someone apparently in the know that Casboult had been tried numerous times in the ruck and not only struggled to keep up but just got lost around the ground. Just didn't have the smarts or endurance. I don't think he's up to it

As for Gorringe I'm not convinced at all. I saw him as a junior and he looked a star. Real athlete. Just hasn't stepped up yet. Will he? I really don't know but at the moment we simply don't have a clear option as a ruck and I am hoping that he somehow finds the key to be the player to back up his ability.

I don't believe as we improve we can play 2 pure rucks. Doesn't work and neither are that good. I hope that as we chase some elite talent from 2018 onwards one name is Peter Wright. As a key forward/ruck I reckon he will be a genuine star and what we need. Be nice to see him next to Big H.

 

[Arr0w]

plus how many good sides use two pure rucks?

adelaide use jacobs & jenkins
gws use mumford supported by lobbe & patton
swans use nakervis supported by tippett and tippett was probably more effective in the ruck
north use goldstein supported by petrie or brown
cats have smith supported by blicavs
upcoming sides like melbourne have used gawn supported by pederson or dawes & the saints have had hickey and at times went without a ruck when he rested.

all of those sides have had other rucks sitting in their reserves.

the theory seems to be if you have a top ruck use them supported by tall forward but if you don't have an influential ruckman use two mobile players.

Agreed, I wonder what clubs are thinking with the possible "third man up" rule being changed.

 

[Coona Blues]

i remember being told by someone apparently in the know that Casboult had been tried numerous times in the ruck and not only struggled to keep up but just got lost around the ground. Just didn't have the smarts or endurance. I don't think he's up to it

As for Gorringe I'm not convinced at all. I saw him as a junior and he looked a star. Real athlete. Just hasn't stepped up yet. Will he? I really don't know but at the moment we simply don't have a clear option as a ruck and I am hoping that he somehow finds the key to be the player to back up his ability.

I don't believe as we improve we can play 2 pure rucks. Doesn't work and neither are that good. I hope that as we chase some elite talent from 2018 onwards one name is Peter Wright. As a key forward/ruck I reckon he will be a genuine star and what we need. Be nice to see him next to Big H.

I toyed with the idea of mentioning Wright in my response to you. There is a rumour, have no idea if any credence. Likewise, 2 metre Peter, Big Harry and mobile types like Jack and Charlie working with the smalls and resting mids, is a salivating thought. We still, ideally need a dominant
ruckman doing the lion's share with support from the two young, and, fortunately, mobile giants.

Can Korcheck produce a fairy tale? I am still surprised we did not draft/rookie a young ruckman. Perhaps our brains trust has faith in our
existing contingent. Cameron went to Sydney surprisingly early and was keen on young Draper taken by * at no. 1 in rookie draft (even more impressed after highlights package, so raw, but so much potential).

Note I still have plenty of time for Kreuzer, but his mobility is too often impaired, probably being nursed on the track, preventing him
from attaining required fitness. Phillips, I have liked since GWS days, but remains potential with very few games in his mid twenties. A
little easily moved around in a physical contest, does have good leap and athleticism. If he can overcome his soft tissue injuries, may
just move up in stature.

 

[Weiterbot23]

I love Boeks kicking, weights them beautifuly and can kick it 60 with ease. He's speed is line breaking.

Defensively he runs like he has cement in his boots and physicality isn't there, he should be able to do what Jeff Garlett would with some run downs.

Hope we see him at his best this year, really hope he makes it.

 

[Azul]

Defensively he runs like he has cement in his boots and physicality isn't there

Like about 30 players on the list!

We get burnt on a turnover frequently. It is about increasing the fitness of the group. It is about instilling a ne'er-give-you-up doggedness that sees running down an opponent and hard tackling, even in junk time.

 

[LordLucifer]

When you look at the playing list now, there is a mixed bag of mids in there.

A-GRADE
Patrick Cripps

B-GRADE
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Ed Curnow

C-GRADE
Sam Petrevski-Seton (untried)
Sam Kerridge
Blaine Boekhorst
Billie Smedts
Zac Fisher (untried)
David Cuningham
Cam Polson (untried)
Dale Thomas

D-GRADE
Dylan Buckley
Nick Graham

Other Potential Options
Charlie Curnow
Liam Sumner
Jed Lamb

 

[Jimmae]

It looks a little less thin when you include all the names and a reasonable order:

A-GRADE
Patrick Cripps
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs

B-GRADE
Ed Curnow
Sam Petrevski-Seton (untried)
Dale Thomas
Matthew Wright
Jarrod Pickett (untried)
Kade Simpson

C-GRADE
Rhys Palmer
Sam Kerridge
Billie Smedts
Zac Fisher (untried)
David Cuningham
Cam Polson (untried)
Dylan Buckley

D-GRADE
Nick Graham
Blaine Boekhorst

Other Potential Options
Charlie Curnow
Liam Sumner
Jed Lamb
Kym LeBois
Nick Graham
Ciaran Byrne
Tom Williamson
Ciaran Sheehan

 

[SurreyBlue]

Ignoring the grading as that is a seperate discussion, above 2 posts show our depth through the midfield.
I think Bolton has so many options this year, it's exciting just to wait and see our setups, rotations and structures.
That is also relevant for our forwards and backs. With SOS, Jn Curnow and Macka putting on size, our forward line just might have the fire power to surprise!

Bring on 2017 - we won't be disappointed!

 

[The Smoking Gun]

It is intriguing that the Clarkson coaching disciples have an interesting take on his tenets. Bolts has maintained the religious Hawthorn model of two genuine rucks, whereas Beveridge has departed from his mentor's model to take on hybrid types contributing more to general play.

They developed Roughead, who's moved from being a KPD to their No.1 ruck....and he is genuine ruck size. They also just drafted English. I think it's more a case that Minson no longer was AFL standard and Roughead wasn't recognised as a ruck man that it gives people that perception.

 

[Coona Blues]

They developed Roughead, who's moved from being a KPD to their No.1 ruck....and he is genuine ruck size. They also just drafted English. I think it's more a case that Minson no longer was AFL standard and Roughead wasn't recognised as a ruck man that it gives people that perception.

They played Redpath and Boyd as their 2nd ruck for the majority of the season. Regardless of you perception of Roughead,
the statement is correct. Still to be seen if English a genuine ruck, been suggested more KPP, although as a ball playing
type, fits the bill as "hybrid", regardless of being a beanpole.

 

[Blue For Life]

I think some people's obsession with big bodied midfielders is becoming over the top. For me a mid should
1. Be able to get their hands on the ball
2. Gather cleanly
3. Make good decisions, dispose of the ball effectively to advantage
4. Have the mental aptitude and desire to work hard spreading when in possession and hard defensive running when not
5. Have the tank to achieve the above
6. A bit of speed is handy to break the lines and put pressure on
A big body is a bonus and can help with some of this but suggestions that player's such as Gorringe should go through the middle are ridiculous. Just my opinion.

Very good point, by the way SOS has recruited he has gone for mids that can kick, highly skillful, pace, agility, one touch, can play infside and outside, kick goals and who aren't afraid to put their bodies on the line.
You can be a quick side by the way you transition the ball or you can move the ball with precise kicking and disposal and you can compliment that with mids that run and carry, break the lines and be highly efficient with disposal, blitzing the opposition.
SOS and BOLTS look like they are building a side that is going to run teams off their legs, a defence that will be elite and very hard to score against and a forward line with lots of weapons and scoring power..
Big bodied mids are all the rave at the moment and over the next few seasons SOS will draft or trade a few in.
I know that it's most likely not going to happen, but could it be that SOS went small mids this draft, knowing Fyfe will be a Blues player in 2018 and there's a big bodie that replaces Gibbs:

 

[therubbernub]

Very good point, by the way SOS has recruited he has gone for mids that can kick, highly skillful, pace, agility, one touch, can play infside and outside, kick goals and who aren't afraid to put their bodies on the line.
You can be a quick side by the way you transition the ball or you can move the ball with precise kicking and disposal and you can compliment that with mids that run and carry, break the lines and be highly efficient with disposal, blitzing the opposition.
SOS and BOLTS look like they are building a side that is going to run teams off their legs, a defence that will be elite and very hard to score against and a forward line with lots of weapons and scoring power..
Big bodied mids are all the rave at the moment and over the next few seasons SOS will draft or trade a few in.
I know that it's most likely not going to happen, but could it be that SOS went small mids this draft, knowing Fyfe will be a Blues player in 2018 and there's a big bodie that replaces Gibbs:

Big Brodie? Freudian slip?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I would expect that

In the guts starting
Cripps
Murphy
Curnow
Gibbs

On the wings, i hope the boys are given a spot round 1 (fitness depending)
SPS & Pickett

Rotations
Palmer
Kerridge
Cunningham
C Curnow
Wright
Boekhurst
Thomas
Graham

 

[Jimmae]

I would expect that

In the guts starting
Cripps
Murphy
Curnow
Gibbs

On the wings, i hope the boys are given a spot round 1 (fitness depending)
SPS & Pickett

Rotations
Palmer
Kerridge
Cunningham
C Curnow
Wright
Boekhurst
Thomas
Graham

No love for Buckley, Sumner, Smedts, Fisher and Polson working through a rotation off HF? Docherty, Simpson, Armfield?

Or is that your 22's midfield?

 

[Manchego Cheese]

Scenario 4: Phillips Nº 1 ruck. Gorringe resting forward.

Kreuzer needs to slim down and reinvent himself as an outside midfielder.

Have you seen Gorringe play football?