2017 National Draft - 24th November 7pm

King Harold

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Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa look at the bloody list it isn’t hard even for you.

Bonar
Fogarty!!!!!!!!!!
Higgins
Did I mention FOGARTY!

Stop jumping on that moron who I have ignored, sooking and read what the other 20 people have written on here re forwards. Unlike some I don’t feel the need to repeat other people and claim it as my own.

Oh did I mention FOGARTY??

Yay another KPB well at least he will see plenty of the ball because we have no one to kick goals. Oh no that’s right we will transform blokes who are defenders into forwards coz that has worked so well in the history of AFL. Les use forwards as number one rucks also while we are at it. Oh no too late we already tried that. And Red and Honey are due to break out after 14 years on the list so yipeeeee

Heres hoping next year we can bring in any other KPB coz he is best available and then try to bulls**t why that’s a good idea AGAIN.

We could recruit 7 ruckman and some of you blokes would say but they were the best available and blah blah blah th club knows best and trust in Dalrymple.

Lol lemmings unite!!!!!!
Get a Bex into you old son !
None of those names you have thrown up are certain to increase our scoring power .
We have addressed the forward line to an extent with Boyd and Schache . yeah I know proved nothing as yet , but neither has any of the blokes just drafted. Our two were way ahead in terms of rankings compared to this lot.
There was no Stringer replacement in this draft from what I saw , and you would'nt get him with P9 & 16 if there was !
What will make a difference , get the f--- midfield back up and running and the goals will be easier come by.
 

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dogwatch

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This is kind of my point though. The phantoms we see are far too similar to each other. There is so much groupthink that goes on. You look at the Suns who make everybody go, "Wait, who?" with a top 20 pick and the Swans who shock everyone by taking Ling about 10 places earlier than anybody expected, Allen "falling" to 21, Murphy to 39, etc etc. Recruiter rankings vary so much, in a way that really isn't represented by the media's/amateur watchers' mocks.

I'm not having a go at the people who do the phantoms, my point is just that the lack of diversity in rankings makes people think it's much more of an exact science, in my opinion.
I suspect those doing the phantoms do spend a fair amount of their time looking at other people's phantoms - hence the alignment you refer to. They probably don't want to risk being the only one to get it badly wrong. However credit to Sam Landsberger for getting the Wil Powell pick right - I think he was on his own on that one.

Another aspect is that most phantoms are trying to anticipate what the clubs will do, which is not the same as making your own assessment of the best available players in the draft without reference to particular list deficiencies.
 

LondonBulldog

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FWIW.

Joel Hamling was selected by the Cats at pick 32 in 2011. He went on to spend three years on their list without playing a game (or really coming close) and was delisted at age 21, about six months older than Collins will be next year. Despite Geelong needing key defenders for the future he was deemed unfit or unable to fill those roles at AFL level.

At age 22 he got his first taste of AFL football, playing 11 games in a season that ended in an elimination final. He played some ok football and showed some decent signs, but wasn't by any means an automatic selection or sure thing to make the grade.

At age 23 he was out of the side for the first half of the season before returning and playing some ordinary football for four or five games. After that it clicked: at the end of the season, his game came together and he played some terrific football, culminating in him playing a key role in a premiership. He then requested a trade to Fremantle.

"Oh, he won't be as good at Fremantle, our system was the reason for his spike in form;" "He won't perform as well in a bad team," went the normal cries post-trade. Well, they were wrong: he continues to go from strength to strength and look every bit of an AFL level key defender for Fremantle. His form simply spiked as a result of more experience, more knowledge, more confidence, and most importantly: more time.

SO much of a defender's skillset is learned. Natural talent for the position helps but it's absolutely not as necessary as it is to play other positions. It doesn't mean anybody could be a key defender, but it means that it can take some time for them to find their feet in the position. I'd be loathe to give up on a talented, young player in that position in such a short period of time. It really makes no sense.

I don't know if Collins will make it - I have concerns too. But **** me, the guy isn't even 20 yet, plays a very physical game style, hasn't had a full preseason and hasn't got an AFL level tank. It is way too early to be making a call on him.

Collins has time on his side(well at least a year). Yet the one thing Hamling had over Collins is pace. You can't teach pace, you have it or you don't. Collins needs to become exceptional at other areas of the game, for example reading the play, peeling off etc.
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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Collins has time on his side(well at least a year). Yet the one thing Hamling had over Collins is pace. You can't teach pace, you have it or you don't. Collins needs to become exceptional at other areas of the game, for example reading the play, peeling off etc.
I do agree, but I think it goes both ways in the sense that that was an advantage Hamling always had over Collins, yet he still struggled to put it all together for the first five years of his career. I understand the point you're making but I don't think your argument and mine are mutually exclusive: in fact, in this way, I think it adds weight to mine to a degree.

I have concerns regarding Collins' pace and general mobility and whether that allows him to get the best out of himself at AFL level, however he still has the opportunity to make the grade by excelling in other areas. My point is simply that it takes time for those other areas to come to the fore as a key defender, and he hasn't been afforded enough of it to make definitive calls either way.
 

Bont2Boyd

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Am I correct in thinking that we currently have less than the maximum number of players at our club (senior list + rookie list)?

I was expecting three selections in the rookie draft today but we appear to have only made two?
 
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Mattdougie

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Am I correct in thinking that we currently have less than the maximum number of players at our club (senior list + rookie list)?

I was expecting three selections in the rookie draft today but appear to have only made two?
I believe we have a strategy to take as many players in next years draft as possible so this may be part of planning for that.

I expect a minimum picks in next years dragt . Possibly Moz Dickson Honey Campbell Jong Collins Lynch Suckling and the spare spot we have should give us maximum picks(I don’t know how many that is I will admit)

With West coming in I’m very excited to see us have a real clean out of the cloggers which is over due for some
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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Am I correct in thinking that we currently have less than the maximum number of players at our club (senior list + rookie list)?

I was expecting three selections in the rookie draft today but we appear to have only made two?
No, we have the correct amount. Tweedie was a category B rookie - we had 45 players this season.
 

The Inbetweener

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I believe we have a strategy to take as many players in next years draft as possible so this may be part of planning for that.

I expect a minimum picks in next years dragt . Possibly Moz Dickson Honey Campbell Jong Collins Lynch Suckling and the spare spot we have should give us maximum picks(I don’t know how many that is I will admit)

With West coming in I’m very excited to see us have a real clean out of the cloggers which is over due for some
If that’s the case (maximum picks next year) pretty strange decision to trade our 2nd rounder. Suppose we have Freos 4th rounder to consider though
 

Mattdougie

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If that’s the case (maximum picks next year) pretty strange decision to trade our 2nd rounder. Suppose we have Freos 4th rounder to consider though
True and I will admit my complete lack of knowledge on the draft and amount of picks but I’ve heard this a couple times and from people that do know a fair bit about it.
 

perro_loco

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Sorry mate but we haven’t been very impressive since October 2016

I do not think we have the quality in the list to lift us into finals again.

I don’t rate the players coming through like others do. Some completely over rate our kids and see things in them I simply cannot see YET.

We have zero forward line. Based now around Red who is s**t(sorry he is) Boyd who is depressed and Schache who couldn’t get a game for the lions.

Ruck really worries me. Rough has been found out. Campbell is worse than s**t. English is a skinny kid that needs time.

Complete and utter lack of speed.other than JJ who ?

No coaching reshuffle and no changes at all to a completely inept group in 2017

Sorry I can’t get excited mate
MD you forgot to say that a volcano will erupt at the vuwo and that all of footscray will disappear. poor old franco cozzo! oh f$#@ including my house :-( Our list is not as bad as you think. we will be pretty competive imo. but let's agree to disagree.
 

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Mattdougie

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MD you forgot to say that a volcano will erupt at the vuwo and that all of footscray will disappear. poor old franco cozzo! oh f$#@ including my house :-( Our list is not as bad as you think. we will be pretty competive imo. but let's agree to disagree.
More concerned of our coaching than list mate, didn’t make one change and last years coaching was F-

List isn’t bad I just think it’s collleltey unbalanced and lacks speed. Talent wise it’s good but speed kills these days and we have next to none.
 

perro_loco

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MD no one could say you said anything wrong as they are all entirely your opinions, which means they can be neither right or wrong.

I am much more optimistic than you for the upcoming year as in my opinion our overall list is more balanced than the one which actually won a premiership.

Our forwardline alone will improve if we improve our connections and delivery in. There are more than enough players to kick a score if we improve that. Also we will score more if we get back our forward pressure accross the board not just one or two players or forwards alone.

Our mids simply need to get back to being well prepared for the season not half baked or coming back after long term injuries. Fit and focussed we have one of the best midfields in the competition.

Ruck may be a concern but not necessarily. Other than one of the rucks the rest are highly competitive around the ground.

As for coaching after a year under their belts in their new roles they should be able to perform better. It is easy to pot coaches at any level of football but unless you work with them it is merely speculation. And as bad as you or others may think they are either now in their current role or before, they are all premiership coaches.

This last season was poor yet we went close to the finals. A massive fracture occurred in the playing group. Some have advised they have taken responsibility for their actions and will change appropriately, the main protagonist is no longer there as well as another whose preparation was a joke.

Just because I disagree with your opinions in this matter does not make me right. They are my opinions only, but it also does not mean I have drank the kool aid, whatever the hell that is.

I was optimistic before 2015 amd morrso for 2016 as there a a few special players in our group that rise to the occasion like none in the past 50 years. They are still there and only need the majority to join them and we will be back challenging very quickly.
great post. i do think that schache was actually a steal and with crozier and the port adelaide bloke in, we will be pretty good. we need luck with injuries and as you say the list will improve after a 2016 holiday year for most. let me assure you that bevo would have had some really heart to heart conversations with the libbas et al about being serious at afl level. with stringer made an example, you will see a different attitude next year. cannot wait for 2018 to start
 

dogwatch

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both still very young. remember lake. he was a total spud at 20 and look what he did as a footballer. top defenders take time bc they play against monsters
Lake also had a sleep/breathing problem which set him back in his first year or two. Club arranged for surgery which fixed it.

But your point is still valid.
 

perro_loco

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Lake also had a sleep/breathing problem which set him back in his first year or two. Club arranged for surgery which fixed it.

But your point is still valid.
Given that my point is very valid I give myself credit for being a highly knowledgeable person about afl in my own imagination,.
 

threenewpadlocks

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On top of everything already said, "drafting for needs" is incredibly dumb for a few reasons:

  • 1st year players hardly ever make a material impact on a best 22 above and beyond the depth players already on a list. For example, Naughton might be a superstar Jake Lever in time, but history of 1st players objective performance shows that he's unlikely to have a better season than Roberts, Young, or Collins, all of who won't make our best 22 initially. What I'm trying to say is: so what if we have a lot of key defenders on our list, it's only if too many of our best 22/25 players are key defenders does this really become an issue. Trengrove, Morris, Wood, Adams is a perfectly balanced defence to begin and Naughton won't displace him. People are acting as if the entire list of 45 needs to be balanced, not just the best 22. So what if we have Collins or Roberts on our list? Both are out of contract and it will naturally balance itself when at least one of them gets traded/delsited at the end of the year
  • As such any best 22 weaknesses not only can get fixed through trading and free agency, as the evidence above, it's more effective to adjust this with these players because they make an instant impact as opposed to a 1st year player. Really, when was the last time that a 1st year player ever dominated the competition to the point that they create/solve imbalances in a best 22? The answer is John Coleman in 1949 probably.
  • So what we learn from above that draftees take a long time to develop and lists change a lot over 2-3-4- years and you can impact the best 22 with mature players through drafting and trading that taking the best avaliable early is always the best option
 

dogwatch

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Really, when was the last time that a 1st year player ever dominated the competition to the point that they create/solve imbalances in a best 22? The answer is John Coleman in 1949 probably.
Not disagreeing with your thesis but Chris Grant (51 goals, 1990) says hi ;).
 

stefoid

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Just saw Will Powells video - anyone seen more of him - went 19th to the Suns. Real quick and evasive, and for someone who weighs 65kgs, very competitive in close and in the air. And..dare I say it, he looks a bit like the Bont when he holds the ball high while riding a tackle, and fires off a handball. At 185cm and 65kgs it will take him a while to do that at AFL level (he would just get ragdolled) but I think the Suns got a good one there.
 

dogwatch

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Just saw Will Powells video - anyone seen more of him - went 19th to the Suns. Real quick and evasive, and for someone who weighs 65kgs, very competitive in close and in the air. And..dare I say it, he looks a bit like the Bont when he holds the ball high while riding a tackle, and fires off a handball. At 185cm and 65kgs it will take him a while to do that at AFL level (he would just get ragdolled) but I think the Suns got a good one there.
Hmmm. 65kg, eh? Sounds like a Clayton pick.
 

BRWB

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If you believe the rumours, the last Clayton first rounder ever.

May he be more successful than 90% of them.
Has there ever been a more overrated recruiter than Scotty. His s**t drafting and trading cost us a flag in the 08-10 window.

The Jade Rawlins/Veale deal, P20ish on Street, blowing the Mundy pick on a bloke who played five games for us, all occurred in one year. Then the procession of wasted high picks, year after year, Everitt before J Reiwoldt, P4 on a bloke who played one game for us, Jarrod Grant, Sam Power...etc,etc,etc

And yet GC pick him up and think he'll be fine. :eek:
 

Dogs_r_barking

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Another Dalrymplesque feature of Richards is that he only came into high draft calculations in the last year or two (I think I read that he grew 15cm in a year). So he could still be on a significant improvement curve. It's also been suggested that Higgins has focussed so much on getting into the AFL (playing footy full time in 2017, etc) that he is already closer to his ceiling than many of his peers. Not sure what to make of that argument but there could be something in it.
Higgins smacks of an Aish type pick then.
 
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