NFL 2017 NFL Pre-Draft Discussion

[Sven]

Every Mock i saw ( before the NC game ) had Watson around the late 2nd to early 3rd selection ( 4th-5th best QB of the class) , but now he seems to have rocketed up the boards much like Vince Young did.

I reckon he is a serious case of buyer beware for any team looking at him early and the comparisons to Young are identical.

Wait until the interviews start and rumours of which QBs impressed and those that didn't spread before you start reading anything into he QB rankings

 

[Sven]

I agree with Richo83, the Browns trades from 2016 can't be fully evaluated until after the 2017 draft. I hope, for AmericanCrow sake, that the team has a strong draft.

 

[Richo83]

High draft picks with that style often bust in the NFL with Cam Newton the exception but you cannot compare the 2 as Cam is much bigger body wise.

I seriously doubt Watson will make it in the NFL as he is to lean and slender with a body frame that will not hold up against NFL defences much like Vince Young, even more so if he goes to a team with terrible OL protecting him.

Drew Brees is pretty small, in fact Watson and Brees have pretty similar height and size. I think the issue about size is often more about hand size, players with small hands can be a bit fumbly. In terms of avoiding getting beaten up, often QBs need to be able to dodge and weave well and be able to sense where and when the pressure is coming from, size is only one part of it. There are plenty of bigger more stronger guys who have been injured by QB hits.

I have no idea whether Watson will be good enough in terms of avoiding getting roughed up in the NFL, but it's more than just size which determines whether you're going to be smashed.

Let's say Watson does fall, saints in the second round? Good O-line, Brees is getting a bit old, they can sit him and let him watch Brees finish out his career, then chuck him in.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Thing is in baseball where Browns Strategy Chief Paul DePodesta comes from, teams are allowed a little patience to re-build. Judging by the 76ers, basketball may be the same. To judge after just one season or in AC's case 2 weeks, is a bit harsh. It doesn't matter how long they have been s**t for, you appoint a FO you need to be patient.

 

[Richo83]

I agree with Richo83, the Browns trades from 2016 can't be fully evaluated until after the 2017 draft. I hope, for AmericanCrow sake, that the team has a strong draft.

AmericanCrow has basically decided the trade was terrible because one, one of their players had an average first season. Forgetting that most of the trade hasn't played out. Forgetting that Crow talks about the idea of picking up a QB, well Prescott has been amazing but he has improved vastly since getting drafted and I doubt he would have improved that much at the Browns. He was the cowboys' plan C and has surprised even them. Wentz has been somewhat patchy, arguably the third best QB from the draft has been Kessler which they picked up.

 

[Richo83]

Thing is in baseball where Browns Strategy Chief Paul DePodesta comes from, teams are allowed a little patience to re-build. Judging by the 76ers, basketball may be the same. To judge after just one season or in AC's case 2 weeks, is a bit harsh. It doesn't matter how long they have been s**t for, you appoint a FO you need to be patient.

I think the Browns need to be a bit patient and just sit for a while, constantly changing direction doesn't work.

 

[aussiedude]

The Browns taking a QB first overall is such a Browns thing to do.

Taking a QB with pick 12 [Browns second 1st round pick] this year will still be a reach.

But teams like the Bears, 9ers and Jets needing QB's and might take one is just dumb. there is no franchise QB in the draft. and not many colleges run a pro system so this year could be the first time they have needed to use a real playbook and terminology or call plays in a huddle, which can be too much for players. and you cant ask the early 1st round QB to be a game manager because there is nothing on those teams that team has to help him do that.

 

[Richo83]

The Browns taking a QB first overall is such a Browns thing to do.

Taking a QB with pick 12 [Browns second 1st round pick] this year will still be a reach.

But teams like the Bears, 9ers and Jets needing QB's and might take one is just dumb. there is no franchise QB in the draft. and not many colleges run a pro system so this year could be the first time they have needed to use a real playbook and terminology or call plays in a huddle, which can be too much for players. and you cant ask the early 1st round QB to be a game manager because there is nothing on those teams that team has to help him do that.

I keep hearing conflicting reports though, some hate this QB class, others say it's much better than 2016's (which wasn't that flash to be honest, although it could have 3-4 starters which isn't bad).

Part of me reckons the Browns should build around Kessler, what do you think?

 

[aussiedude]

I keep hearing conflicting reports though, some hate this QB class, others say it's much better than 2016's (which wasn't that flash to be honest, although it could have 3-4 starters which isn't bad).

Part of me reckons the Browns should build around Kessler, what do you think?

The browns dont have an answer for QB. just keep building a new team and wait for a good QB to come out. there are some better QB's next year that will have some pro style experience.

The thing i dont like about this years QB class is they are all underdeveloped and players like Kizer and Kaaya needed another to stay year and become a better QB. and more often then not these players end up like Mark Sanchez another who needed to stay an extra year to develop.

 

[juss]

Watson will go top 10.
Teams ALWAYS reach on QBs. It's the most important position in the sport and so many teams need one for the future. Watson has one great intangible, he's a winner and stood up in the biggest moment of the entire College Football season.

 

[drd23]

I keep hearing conflicting reports though, some hate this QB class, others say it's much better than 2016's (which wasn't that flash to be honest, although it could have 3-4 starters which isn't bad).

They're not mutually exclusive statements. This QB class can be terrible (which it is imo) and still be better than last years

Part of me reckons the Browns should build around Kessler, what do you think?

Nope. Kessler's not good enough. They should absolutely get a better QB when they have the option, but I don't think that opportunity is this year

 

[catters078]

The chargers moving to LA potentially puts them in the market for a qb too.

Phillip rivers has stated he doesnt want to play there..could possibly ask for a trade...or retire.

 

[aussiedude]

The chargers moving to LA potentially puts them in the market for a qb too.

Phillip rivers has stated he doesnt want to play there..could possibly ask for a trade...or retire.

I think he knew what was happening when he signed a new contract lastyear. IIRC there is a no trade clause in it.

 

[Indie_]

I really really want the Pats to draft McCaffrey. But when was the last time we took a skill position player in the first round? The highest picks in the skill positions I can remember in recent memory are the likes of Dobson, Vereen and Ridley and they were 2nd/3rd rounders.

 

[AmericanCrow]

It is like talking to a wall....

Can cite all the analytics you want...doesn't change the fact they passed on a elite talent at #2 and traded down for a bunch of garbage. If you don't think the ceiling for Wentz is pretty high, you don't understand the game and merely look at numbers.

Hitting at 12 this year is only going to put them where they should have been last year. I don't know how many different times I need to say the same thing. That will only be IF they hit at 12.

Please identify ONE game changing player the Browns selected with ANY pick in the 2016 draft. I wait with baited breath...as I am sure you know, NFL.com has rated the Browns 27th for their selections in 2016.

So the analytics driven trade down has so far resulted in NOTHING.

If you think they are getting a player at #12 with a ceiling as high as Wentz...you are seriously kidding yourself.

Again, its the difference between acquiring talent and playing with numbers.

 

[AmericanCrow]

Nope. Kessler's not good enough. They should absolutely get a better QB when they have the option, but I don't think that opportunity is this year

They had that chance...they were sitting at #2 last year and passed. Analytics told them so.

1-15 was the result.

 

[AmericanCrow]

Huh...imagine that.

 

[Blacky]

I love AC's melts about the Browns FO.

I hope they trade out of the first and acquire 15 second rounders

 

[Sven]

It is like talking to a wall....

Can cite all the analytics you want...doesn't change the fact they passed on a elite talent at #2 and traded down for a bunch of garbage. If you don't think the ceiling for Wentz is pretty high, you don't understand the game and merely look at numbers.

Hitting at 12 this year is only going to put them where they should have been last year. I don't know how many different times I need to say the same thing. That will only be IF they hit at 12.

Please identify ONE game changing player the Browns selected with ANY pick in the 2016 draft. I wait with baited breath...as I am sure you know, NFL.com has rated the Browns 27th for their selections in 2016.

So the analytics driven trade down has so far resulted in NOTHING.

If you think they are getting a player at #12 with a ceiling as high as Wentz...you are seriously kidding yourself.

Again, its the difference between acquiring talent and playing with numbers.

I feel for you AC, but not every team is good at drafting.

Here's some numbers for you

Season Stats

REC YDS AVG LNG TD
33 413 12.5 58 3
1 15 15.0 15 0

The 1st set of numbers is for a WR you should be very aware of. Can you guess the owner of the 2nd set?

Oh yes, the highly vaunted 1st round steal for the Vikings - Laquon Treadwell. At least Coleman can say he missed 6 games with a broken hand. Treadwell was a healthy scratch for most of the year and got targeted a grand total of 3 times when he did actually get on the field.

Here's to a vastly improved 2017 for both of them.....

 

[GreyWind]

Rookie WRs are being judged way too harsh right now. Doesn't help when you have guys like Julio, OBJ, Green coming in and performing right away.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I feel for you AC, but not every team is good at drafting.

Here's some numbers for you

Season Stats

REC YDS AVG LNG TD
33 413 12.5 58 3
1 15 15.0 15 0

The 1st set of numbers is for a WR you should be very aware of. Can you guess the owner of the 2nd set?

Oh yes, the highly vaunted 1st round steal for the Vikings - Laquon Treadwell. At least Coleman can say he missed 6 games with a broken hand. Treadwell was a healthy scratch for most of the year and got targeted a grand total of 3 times when he did actually get on the field.

Here's to a vastly improved 2017 for both of them.....

Not saying you don't use analytics as a tool...but a very small tool. Football is so different than baseball and basketball it's not even funny.

Coleman was selected 100% because of the analytical analysis they did. I have watched him up close and personal and as I stated earlier in the thread he will NEVER be anywhere close to what their numbers projected. I guarantee it.

It is the difference between being able to digest what you actually see on the field and what a spreadsheet tells you he "projects".

I would almost never use analytics in any manner to select players in the first or second round. Where I might give it more credence is in the mid to late rounds when guys are all mixed in together.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I feel for you AC, but not every team is good at drafting.

You nailed it...so let me ask you this. Who would you rather have hire the scouts? A lawyer who never played coached or was associated with the game in any manner prior to being hired as a capologist, a baseball sabremetrics "expert"....or an executive who spent 5-10 years going up the ranks and worked as the right hand man for an organization that wins consistently?

 

[Sven]

Not saying you don't use analytics as a tool...but a very small tool. Football is so different than baseball and basketball it's not even funny.

Coleman was selected 100% because of the analytical analysis they did. I have watched him up close and personal and as I stated earlier in the thread he will NEVER be anywhere close to what their numbers projected. I guarantee it.

It is the difference between being able to digest what you actually see on the field and what a spreadsheet tells you he "projects".

I would almost never use analytics in any manner to select players in the first or second round. Where I might give it more credence is in the mid to late rounds when guys are all mixed in together.

I agree with you. The Vikings use analytics but I think it was Spielman that said analytics was just one of about 30 something measures the team uses to evaluate players. The Vikings tend to use analytics more for the mid/later round picks. A couple of players that comes to mind is Danielle Hunter and Jerick McKinnon who were both taken in the 3rd round.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I agree with you. The Vikings use analytics but I think it was Spielman that said analytics was just one of about 30 something measures the team uses to evaluate players. The Vikings tend to use analytics more for the mid/later round picks. A couple of players that comes to mind is Danielle Hunter and Jerick McKinnon who were both taken in the 3rd round.

Most of the elite organizations do exactly that. Pittspuke, whom I despise, let the scouts do their thing and use analytics sparingly. I also am 100% certain if Pittspuke ever was sitting at #2 they would select a player. Every time.

 

[Sven]

Most of the elite organizations do exactly that. Pittspuke, whom I despise, let the scouts do their thing and use analytics sparingly. I also am 100% certain if Pittspuke ever was sitting at #2 they would select a player. Every time.

TBH - if Pittsburgh had a pick at #2 I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have any idea what to do - the last time they had a top 5 pick was back in 1970 when they took Bradshaw at #1.