NFL 2017 NFL - Week 7

[AmericanCrow]

The crazy thing, I think, is that it's not the product of Wentz being carried- he's carrying the team.

The 'star' weapons we brought in havent really had a big impact yet. Not many contested catches from Alshon, not many big plays from Smith. Ertz perhaps the exception, together with Agholor being reborn in the slot.

When you look at the big plays that have won us games- they've almost all come from Wentz, and his ability to beat pressure and throw.

I mean, that huge TD throw that gave us a 2 td break today- he throw that to an undrafted RB.

That is what a franchise quarterback does. He elevates the players around him, he gives confidence to the entire roster 1 thru 53.

It is why you pay the "price" in terms of picks to acquire him when another team is stupid enough to pass.

No amount of picks is "to much" to give up.

It's why people who think "if he had gone to team A, he would have been a failure" are so completely off base.

A franchise quarterback changes the culture and direction of a team by his presence alone. He elevates everyone.

Personally, if I were a certain owner I would do everything in my power to find out who in Philly scouted and wrote the report up on Wentz. My hunch is the ball got started rolling by a mid level football ops guy

That person would make an excellent choice to interview in a certain city that better have many many openings soon

 

[AcuteWhistle]

That is what a franchise quarterback does. He elevates the players around him, he gives confidence to the entire roster 1 thru 53.

It is why you pay the "price" in terms of picks to acquire him when another team is stupid enough to pass.

No amount of picks is "to much" to give up.

It's why people who think "if he had gone to team A, he would have been a failure" are so completely off base.

A franchise quarterback changes the culture and direction of a team by his presence alone. He elevates everyone.

Personally, if I were a certain owner I would do everything in my power to find out who in Philly scouted and wrote the report up on Wentz. My hunch is the ball got started rolling by a mid level football ops guy

That person would make an excellent choice to interview in a certain city that better have many many openings soon

Yes I do joke about C!eveland ruining any qb that sets foot in there but Im starting to think Wentz might just have found his way through. Extreme talent.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Cleveland had as many, or more, pieces on offence to support Wentz last year as we did really. From that point, they easily could have done what we did in free agency if they'd wanted to supplement.

 

[AmericanCrow]

Yes I do joke about C!eveland ruining any qb that sets foot in there but Im starting to think Wentz might just have found his way through. Extreme talent.

It isn't so much that he finds his way thru, it is more once you bring that kind of talent in, EVERYTHING changes. The professionalism that an elite talent brings (and you don't get to be elite without professionalism at that position) is infectious. I get ripped because of my comments about Joe Thomas and his "veteran days off" but those things set the tone for an organization.

When your leader is capable and professional and prepared---EVERYONE steps up and nobody wants to be the guy dragging them down.

He makes players better....just look at the elite qb's around the NFL--guys play harder and better for them.

When your organization is directionless and clueless you get guys doing their own thing--it is a cycle of suck.

 

[Southerntakeover]

The craziness is, the hit on Wentz starting out (and the reason Goff went above him) was that Wentz was supposed to be a project that would take a little more time to put it together playing against tougher competition.

 

[AcuteWhistle]

Watching the replay tonight, I almost forgot how much I hate listening to Gruden in commentary...

I find him a bit of a mixed bag as he can come out with some great observations & breakdown of plays, but then carries on with stuff like 'fresh', which is a pity.

 

[AmericanCrow]

The craziness is, the hit on Wentz starting out (and the reason Goff went above him) was that Wentz was supposed to be a project that would take a little more time to put it together playing against tougher competition.

It is why it would behoove one Owner to seek out the man who convinced Philly you move heaven and earth for someone most "experts" said was a project, not to mention the baseball analytics wunderkind and cap lawyer running his organization said was the 16th best qb in the draft.

 

[offtherails9]

Someone on Twitter before goes 'look at Wentz stats from week 7-14 last year - he probably would have been benched as a Brown anyway' and that's a great call.

 

[AcuteWhistle]

It isn't so much that he finds his way thru, it is more once you bring that kind of talent in, EVERYTHING changes. The professionalism that an elite talent brings (and you don't get to be elite without professionalism at that position) is infectious. I get ripped because of my comments about Joe Thomas and his "veteran days off" but those things set the tone for an organization.

When your leader is capable and professional and prepared---EVERYONE steps up and nobody wants to be the guy dragging them down.

He makes players better....just look at the elite qb's around the NFL--guys play harder and better for them.

When your organization is directionless and clueless you get guys doing their own thing--it is a cycle of suck.

I hear you but do wonder if all that would have been too much expect from him his first year or two. The Eagles had their issues post Chip Kelly but as an outsider it looks like the new coaching team established a great support structure around their 1st year QB who, if I recall correctly, struggled for much of the season after a positive start.

Do we think Cleveland coaches were capable of providing that same environment & support?

 

[AmericanCrow]

I hear you but do wonder if all that would have been too much expect from him his first year or two. The Eagles had their issues post Chip Kelly but as an outsider it looks like the new coaching team established a great support structure around their 1st year QB who, if I recall correctly, struggled for much of the season after a positive start.

Do we think Cleveland coaches were capable of providing that same environment & support?

Certainly not this coach--but that circles back to the main issue. Wentz was never a chance here, and it was obvious from the second the FO was hired they were trading pick away. I won't rehash that.

However, a FO that conducted its due diligence and holds onto that pick likely has hired a quality head coach, who can shepherd a Wentz along.

Assuming we get proper people in proper roles, we should not fear "ruining" anyone.

 

[AmericanCrow]

Someone on Twitter before goes 'look at Wentz stats from week 7-14 last year - he probably would have been benched as a Brown anyway' and that's a great call.

Simply not true...anyone who watched him last year could tell the kid had the make-up and ability to be a top notch player. A rookie qb can "lose" games and throw int's and you can still tell he is the real deal.

Wentz is the epitome of that--and I am quite certain we can find posts from me in the football forum saying he was a player and you could see it. I believe the pro- "analytics" gang was the ones calling him nothing special.

The right head coach and the right regime (as in Philly) knows what they have. Those of us of a certain age know Bernie Kosar in 1985 was not Bernie Kosar of 1986---but we could tell he was trending that way.

Despite what some think--it isn't that hard to discern true ability from say, oh...Johnny Manziel.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Wentz would have been benched in Cleveland. He wouldn't have played as well as he did last year in Philly if he were in Cleveland.

The Browns already benched Kizer FFS. They're *ed

 

[offtherails9]

Simply not true...anyone who watched him last year could tell the kid had the make-up and ability to be a top notch player. A rookie qb can "lose" games and throw int's and you can still tell he is the real deal.

Wentz is the epitome of that--and I am quite certain we can find posts from me in the football forum saying he was a player and you could see it. I believe the pro- "analytics" gang was the ones calling him nothing special.

The right head coach and the right regime (as in Philly) knows what they have. Those of us of a certain age know Bernie Kosar in 1985 was not Bernie Kosar of 1986---but we could tell he was trending that way.

Despite what some think--it isn't that hard to discern true ability from say, oh...Johnny Manziel.

Johnny could have had success at a more stable franchise is something that people will think is dumb but I honestly believe.

Anyway Wentz would have been benched.

 

[Cockliff38]

Brought this up during the game but seriously WTF.

The saddest part is it looks like the play was specifically designed for that route

 

[JeffDunne]

The play failed because Eli didn't read the D at the line.

They were one blocker short and he should have realised that. Had the RB been motioned to that side to at least chip the LBer then the play might have worked. The tackle &/or guard should have lead in that direction too.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Should’ve...would’ve...easy to draft in hindsight. Texans were bashed for taking Williams over Vinnie and Bush, not that for a minute do I compare Wentz to Young.

At the time Browns were devoid of any talent, needed more one player... and there were doubts on Wentz.. ok now Wentz looks like he’ll be a star... but we can track Browns problems to well before Wentz draft.

 

[Papa Juggs]

Some teams are starting to come good.

Still think coin applies but somehow I don't see big underdogs winning again.

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 20 @ 11:30 AM
Kansas City at Oakland

MONDAY, OCTOBER 23 @ 4:00 AM
Arizona vs Los Angeles Rams (at Twickenham)
Baltimore at Minnesota
Carolina at Chicago
Jacksonville at Indianapolis
New Orleans at Green Bay
New York Jets at Miami
Tampa Bay at Buffalo
Tennessee at Cleveland

MONDAY,OCTOBER 23 @ 7:05 AM
Dallas at San Francisco

MONDAY, OCTOBER 23 @ 7:25 AM
Cincinnati at Pittsburgh
Denver at Los Angeles Chargers
Seattle at New York Giants

MONDAY, OCTOBER 23 @ 11:30 AM
Atlanta at New England
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 24 @ 11:30 PM
Washington at Philadelphia

Coin selections for this week.

The coin had a pretty bad week. Did manage to find the Chargers and Oakland though. Still I think it's a loss for the week.

 

[balmainforever]

balmainforever has been slipping recently

Honey badger don’t care with no Aaron.

 

[drd23]

Honey badger don’t care with no Aaron.

That's no excuse. Some of us have to live with a similar lack of ability from our teams every week

 

[balmainforever]

That's no excuse. Some of us have to live with a similar lack of ability from our teams every week

It’s not they. lol.
I’ve actually been busy at work this week. Damn spring carnival.
First chance I’ve had to log on bigfooty

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Carson “Siemian” Wentz

Really??

Really??

Trev wishes he could scramble as well as Carson...

The crazy thing, I think, is that it's not the product of Wentz being carried- he's carrying the team.

The 'star' weapons we brought in havent really had a big impact yet. Not many contested catches from Alshon, not many big plays from Smith. Ertz perhaps the exception, together with Agholor being reborn in the slot.

When you look at the big plays that have won us games- they've almost all come from Wentz, and his ability to beat pressure and throw.

I mean, that huge TD throw that gave us a 2 td break today- he throw that to an undrafted RB.

This is why I think that, while awful, the Peters injury is less of a season ender than it would normally be. Our O Line play has been average at best - Carson has been getting pressured and sacked a fair bit, and our run game has really struggled in quite a few games.

IMHO what is making things special is Wentz's ability to both stand up in the pocket and make clutch throws under heavy pressure through tiny windows, while also being able to scramble and make near sacks turn in to long QB runs. If he can keep those two aspects of his game going, and not get hurt despite the hammering he is taking, the Eagles should be able to make playoffs despite having a very limited OLine.

The impact of injuries on our D is another story, we are now very thin at LB and CB, really need reinforcements...

Also, as one who doubted Wentz's ability given he had only thrown less than 600 pass attempts at college level, and they were at FBS standard games, I must say he has been amazingly good. Whoever picked him as NFL elite QB potential from a sample size that was so small (and often against such poor quality opposition) really deserves huge scouting credit. The ability to pick diamonds from a mass of gravel from such small sample sizes is very rare - and especially at the QB position. Been a long time since I can recall a QB with under 700 college snaps working out well in the NFL...