Analysis 2017 Non-Crows Discussion Thread - Part V for Vendetta

Status
Not open for further replies.

relapse

Moderator
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Posts
23,680
Likes
17,310
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
49ers, AFC Wimbledon, Utah Jazz
Moderator #2,176
Just looking through the "Annus Horribilis" thread over on the imbecile board, if we win on Saturday I think the scene is set for a mass deserting of the Port Power bandwagon.

"I was literally no ****s given after we lost the WC final"
" I think I'll take a holiday away from footy"
"Yeah I didn't even care"
" I'll renew next year but if 2018 is like 2017 that will be it for me"
"What is it with us right now. I don't think I've ever been so disengaged in my 15 years of legit fandom."

Please AFC put those people out of their misery on Saturday by winning and in the words of their million dollar coach let them "get what they deserve"
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
994
Likes
1,709
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide, Norwood,
Just looking through the "Annus Horribilis" thread over on the imbecile board, if we win on Saturday I think the scene is set for a mass deserting of the Port Power bandwagon.

"I was literally no ****s given after we lost the WC final"
" I think I'll take a holiday away from footy"
"Yeah I didn't even care"
" I'll renew next year but if 2018 is like 2017 that will be it for me"
"What is it with us right now. I don't think I've ever been so disengaged in my 15 years of legit fandom."

Please AFC put those people out of their misery on Saturday by winning and in the words of their million dollar coach let them "get what they deserve"
I was speaking with a Power fan at work and he is absolutely dead inside.

Not that Sturt beat Port by a point, nor is it that the Crows are going to possibly win the flag, but more the fact that Ken is coach for four more years. He is one of the ones who saw that Port was in a Sando MkII situation, and instead of doing what we did, they buckled and re-signed their insipid coach.

Glorious I tells ya! GLORIOUS!!!
 

aneale

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Posts
10,400
Likes
3,346
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Just looking through the "Annus Horribilis" thread over on the imbecile board, if we win on Saturday I think the scene is set for a mass deserting of the Port Power bandwagon.

"I was literally no ****s given after we lost the WC final"
And that is from one of their better posters who actuallg has a pretty good grip on reality.


Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

subaru

Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Posts
44,028
Likes
22,869
AFL Club
Adelaide
there are hardly any "rules" at all, that's why I refer to common law.

every action directly responsible for a concussion that causes a player to miss the rest of the game this year has resulted in a report
. Every player has a duty of care to protect the head of their opponent, that has been made very clear.
Really ?
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-15/sloane-knocked-out-in-tough-tackle

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-17/match-review-panel-full-statement-round-17



upload_2017-9-26_12-38-28.png



Last post, because you really are just being idiotically belligerent on this one.

If you bump, you cant get away with accidental head high contact.

If you're contesting the ball, you can.

You said Cotchin elected to bump, but you don't think he should have gotten a penalty.

You can only think he doesn't deserve a penalty if you think he was contesting the ball, not electing to bump.


Stop contradicting yourself.
No need to resort to insults.

Oh please ..... so you can't bump prior to contesting the ball? Why else do you bump someone?

And were have I said anywhere Cotchin wasn't going for the ball?

Stop putting words in my posts. I've always maintained he was going for the ball - that was within 5 metres so he was allowed to bump.

I haven't see anyone claim it was deliberate - careless - perhaps, although Cotchin was going for the ball.
Either way - it may not even have been Cotchin that was responsible for the concussion ....... I think Cotchin hurt Shiels shoulder more.

The question of whether Cotchin was contesting the ball will be critical, with the midfielder certain to be cleared if the MRP is satisfied he was doing so.
Shiel returned to play after the Cotchin collision but was collected again by Astbury just before the quarter-time siren. He was diagnosed with concussion and unable to play the final three quarters of Saturday's clash at the MCG.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-25/cotchin-or-astbury-who-caused-shiels-injury


And that is where I shall leave this.
 
Last edited:

fabs33

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 25, 2009
Posts
6,748
Likes
11,744
Location
Back in S.A.
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sporting Clube de Portugal
I was speaking with a Power fan at work and he is absolutely dead inside.

Not that Sturt beat Port by a point, nor is it that the Crows are going to possibly win the flag, but more the fact that Ken is coach for four more years. He is one of the ones who saw that Port was in a Sando MkII situation, and instead of doing what we did, they buckled and re-signed their insipid coach.

Glorious I tells ya! GLORIOUS!!!
You can always push through the bad times in footy if you can see a light at the end of the tunnel, but four more years of tunnel makes it very difficult for any light to be seen, unless it's in the form of an oncoming train called Shuey.
 

DD#23

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Posts
9,127
Likes
12,319
AFL Club
Adelaide
You said


I've just shown you that is not the case.
pretty disingenuous to pretend there are no clear and important differences between Sloane being knocked off balance by a regulation tackle around the hips and falling badly, and either driving your shoulder into someone else's face or their head into the ground.
 

GROTTO

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Posts
36,568
Likes
36,819
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
View attachment 420776

Above are the guidelines that the MRP abide by.

Both Sloane and Cotchin's incidents were classed as 'incidental' and as such were thrown out.

The only issue I have is that previously, if you choose to bump (as Cotchin did) and you concuss someone that is 99% of the time classed as 'Careless' as the player has failed in his 'duty of care'.

Now, if you look at the impact - Shiel was concussed, so it has to be Medium

Look at Contact: Cotchin got him high. 2 matches, down to 1 every other day of the year..

Now, lets look at Sloane and say he was Careless (which I don't think he was. I class that as incidental).

Sloane's contact on Danger was possibly high (still, don't agree), but the impact was low as Danger continued the game. At worst, Sloane gets a fine.

It really is that cut and dry all year, apart from this week.
Could be argued that Sloane may have deserved a fine. Cotchin at the very least deserved a fine.

He didnt get a fine because of the VFL.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
994
Likes
1,709
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide, Norwood,
Could be argued that Sloane may have deserved a fine. Cotchin at the very least deserved a fine.

He didnt get a fine because of the VFL.
Given the guidelines I published in my post, there is no way that if Cotchin's action is classed as 'Careless' then he gets weeks, not a fine.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

OutofTownCrow

Premium Platinum
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Posts
9,420
Likes
16,191
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
New York Rangers, Dodgers, Redlegs
If they are sticking with the current MRP system etc then I think the idea mentioned by Bickley where fines from the regular season should get reset when the finals start, would be good to implement. That would avoid someone missing a GF for a offence which is just a fine (unless they get 3 fines in there finals)
As I posted earlier ... the fines should still apply to all games, but the penalty for accumulating fines should only be served in regular season games. So you get fined for a third strike, you miss round 1 next year, 2 fines miss two games next year etc...

The change that is needed for finals is something like this:

tribunal-table_3.png


Just add a column for finals, get rid of the early plea stuff for post-season games because everyone will take that in a finals series ... and make anything that would be 2 matches or worse in the regular season go straight to the Tribunal.

The Tribunal can then hear all the excuses and the physics debates etc... and make a decision based on what the outcome produces and what the player would miss as a result.
 

fabs33

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 25, 2009
Posts
6,748
Likes
11,744
Location
Back in S.A.
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sporting Clube de Portugal
Regarding this Cotchin incident, if it was one of our players that got suspended due to a three strikes policy then I would be annoyed, but at the player not the MRP. If the MRP applies the rules correctly and consistently then a player only has one person to blame and that is himself. You get two chances without incurring a suspension, that's enough to protect a player from missing out on important games due to a mistake they normally wouldn't make, heck you can even get away with two mistakes. Do it a third time and you're an idiot, do the third in a Prelim and you're a massive idiot.
 

OutofTownCrow

Premium Platinum
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Posts
9,420
Likes
16,191
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
New York Rangers, Dodgers, Redlegs
Sloane hit Danger in the head.
Knocked him out.
Football collision
No free
No report
Dangerfield's head hits Sloane's shoulder
No-one was knocked out.
Football collision
No free (could have been one for incidental high)
No report

Cotchin hit Shiel in the head
Didn't knock him out - In fact it looked like it was his shoulder that got injured
Football collision
No free
No report
Cotchin bumped Shiel in the head
Concussed him (see article)
Chose to bump, hit him high
No free (should have been)
No report (should have been)

I understand what you are trying to say, but most commentators out there that aren't conflicted have come to the conclusion that if this was a regular season game he is goneski. No questions asked.

If one of our players did it we would be trying to twist it like the Richmond / AFL are ... but that still wouldn't make it right.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Posts
1,043
Likes
3,257
AFL Club
Adelaide
As I posted earlier ... the fines should still apply to all games, but the penalty for accumulating fines should only be served in regular season games. So you get fined for a third strike, you miss round 1 next year, 2 fines miss two games next year etc...
To take this further, the fines should also be increased so they have a meaningful impact. $1500 is close enough to nothing as to not really matter. Multiply it by 10 and players will start being a bit more hesitant about doing the stupid stuff. That way you can then suspend players for things they deserve to be suspended for - while hopefully discouraging a set of behaviours that we don't want to see in the game.

Perhaps also index it against players salaries/match payments so that someone on $1.2 million/year pays a 4x bigger fine than someone on $300k/year.
 

OutofTownCrow

Premium Platinum
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Posts
9,420
Likes
16,191
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
New York Rangers, Dodgers, Redlegs
To take this further, the fines should also be increased so they have a meaningful impact. $1500 is close enough to nothing as to not really matter. Multiply it by 10 and players will start being a bit more hesitant about doing the stupid stuff. That way you can then suspend players for things they deserve to be suspended for - while hopefully discouraging a set of behaviours that we don't want to see in the game. Perhaps also index it against players salaries/match payments so that someone on $1.2 million/year pays a 4x bigger fine than someone on $300k/year.
Nah, don't like that ... the MRP are a bunch of mad-hatters. I wouldn't want that big a $ involved with those clowns.

Almost all fines are shared by the whole team now-a-days anyway.
 

cmndstab

Premium Platinum
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Posts
28,298
Likes
16,944
Location
Ingle Farm
AFL Club
Adelaide
Wow...who's changed the rule ?
He was sitting on 2 fines.
He hasn't been reported for this incident.
No rule has been changed.

Should not change how "important the next match is ?"

And yet you still have not included in your thesis how you'd react if this was Sloane.
Are you deliberately missing the point?

The "rule", such as it is, is that if you elect to bump a player and they get concussed, you have a case to answer. It almost always results in a suspension, occasionally a fine.

Neither occurred in this case. Why do you think that is? It's because the next match is "worth more" in the eyes of the AFL. So they orchestrated a result which is different from the one they have arrived it time and time again.

If it was Sloane in the identical situation, with two fines and a concussed opponent, and he got suspended, of course I'd be upset. But it would be consistent with the decisions that have been made over the last few years. The Cotchin decision was not.
 

OutofTownCrow

Premium Platinum
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Posts
9,420
Likes
16,191
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
New York Rangers, Dodgers, Redlegs
Just to divert the conversation again - anyone else getting sick of the Geelong supporters that are claiming they had as good a year as us if not better because they were only second by %, and had less home games than we did?

We rested players where we needed to as we had the top 2 sewn up early.

During the regular season Geelong played:
  • 16 X VIC (4 EH, 5 MCG, 7 SS)
  • 2 X WA
  • 2 X QLD
  • 1 X NSW
  • 1 X SA
6 interstate trips - Poor darlings !!
 

Geoffa32

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Posts
42,832
Likes
34,566
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The Autobots and Team America
Gaz officially tells the Suns he wants to go home.

Current BnF winner and polled well in the Brownlow. Can't wait to see how the Cats procure one or two first rounders to get the contracted player home.





Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Posts
8,211
Likes
11,712
AFL Club
Adelaide
Just to divert the conversation again - anyone else getting sick of the Geelong supporters that are claiming they had as good a year as us if not better because they were only second by %, and had less home games than we did?

We rested players where we needed to as we had the top 2 sewn up early.

During the regular season Geelong played:
  • 16 X VIC (4 EH, 5 MCG, 7 SS)
  • 2 X WA
  • 2 X QLD
  • 1 X NSW
  • 1 X SA
6 interstate trips - Poor darlings !!
But, but, but the MCG is a 90 minute drive. It's totally the same as a plane flight from Adelaide to Melbourne.

Plus the MCG isn't their home ground, so they are really like away games for them. :rolleyes:
 

Scorpus

Enough is Enough
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Posts
29,713
Likes
62,966
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Adelaide
Just to divert the conversation again - anyone else getting sick of the Geelong supporters that are claiming they had as good a year as us if not better because they were only second by %, and had less home games than we did?

We rested players where we needed to as we had the top 2 sewn up early.

During the regular season Geelong played:
  • 16 X VIC (4 EH, 5 MCG, 7 SS)
  • 2 X WA
  • 2 X QLD
  • 1 X NSW
  • 1 X SA
6 interstate trips - Poor darlings !!
So what you're saying is Geelong played 16 games at their home grounds! :eek:

Talk about unfair
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Posts
43
Likes
101
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Just to divert the conversation again - anyone else getting sick of the Geelong supporters that are claiming they had as good a year as us if not better because they were only second by %, and had less home games than we did?

We rested players where we needed to as we had the top 2 sewn up early.

During the regular season Geelong played:
  • 16 X VIC (4 EH, 5 MCG, 7 SS)
  • 2 X WA
  • 2 X QLD
  • 1 X NSW
  • 1 X SA
6 interstate trips - Poor darlings !!
The realisation must be sinking in that this is the end of the road for a while a far as grand finals are concerned for Geelong. Too much reliance on Dangerwood, speculative trades (e.g. Stanley), underperforming senior players (Hawkins, Motlop etc) and veterans on their last legs. Cupboard bare as far as draft picks are concerned so no trade currency. Ablett (if he gets there) and Devon Smith won't go anywhere close to righting the sinking ship.
 

Geoffa32

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Posts
42,832
Likes
34,566
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The Autobots and Team America
The realisation must be sinking in that this is the end of the road for a while a far as grand finals are concerned for Geelong. Too much reliance on Dangerwood, speculative trades (e.g. Stanley), underperforming senior players (Hawkins, Motlop etc) and veterans on their last legs. Cupboard bare as far as draft picks are concerned so no trade currency. Ablett (if he gets there) and Devon Smith won't go anywhere close to righting the sinking ship.
Chris Scott basically said this is the end of an era in his presser after losing to us.

Paying tribute to Mackie and Lonergran and then saying how there are teams that did not make the eight tbus year that will be better than them next year. He also said they need to start again.

Geelong are done.....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom