Opinion 2017 Off Season

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Decided to do a comparison of the output of our midfield and forward line each year from 2013 to 2017 and it's pretty telling...

Our midfield this season wasn't quite back to the levels of our competitive years ('13-'15) but it's in the ball park and interestingly the depth is probably a little stronger than it was back then (already). Last year the midfield output was appalling compared to the other years, and not all of that was due to Fyfe being injured. Our core midfield (ruck + 5 best mids) has been relatively consistent with output throughout that whole time period (excepting '16, and slightly down this year) but with the next 4 or so best mids we are starting to see some exciting growth imo. Of course we've stolen Walters from the forward line which helps but even without that there are some good signs with our young mids (and I haven't even factored in Bennell potentially being in the mix either). My gut feel (based on the trends in the data) says our 2nd-4th year mids this year will be a fair bit better than what we had rotating through from '13-'15 over the coming year or two.

As an example, if you take our best 10 mids (inc ruck) they averaged 5.3 goals per game this season. That's higher than the best 10 mids at Adelaide (5.2), Sydney (4.8), GWS (4.7) and West Coast (3.7). Obviously it's a fairly crude analysis, especially as many of our mids rotated forward this year and those other teams all have far better forward lines to rely on but I think it's still encouraging that our midfield didn't perform as badly as what many assume. Plenty of things we can improve but the numbers seem encouraging that our midfield can get back to its best if everyone is fit and firing. That's not to say we don't need to draft more mids this off season.

However our forward line really was appalling in 2017 when compared to previous years. Our best 6 forwards averaged only 6.4 goals per game whereas even in 2016 our forward line averaged 8.2 goals per game. We all know it's always been our weakness, having only scored 8.3, 8.5, 8.7 goals per game in 2013, 2014 and 2015 respectively. It's not just goals though, pretty much stats across the board were down by a massive proportion compared to previous years and against other teams. It's so bad I literally can't find any golden lining as there is not a single indicator I could find that we have or even can improve in any area. The only stat we were higher than previous years was clangers.

It's important to note this is an analysis taking the averages of our best performers. So it assumes Tabs played the entire season not just 8 games - meaning this analysis is actually overstating our performance - eek! I think we can expect some improvement from players like McCarthy and maybe more consistency from Kersten but it's clear we need an overhaul. We need far more dangerous smalls and at least one key tall with a strong presence inside 50. It's clear the impact a player like Josh Kennedy has on West Coast's forward line. Individually I barely rate any of them except him, yet they have one of the most dangerous forward lines in the AFL. His mere presence inside 50 makes all the other forwards appear better than what they are. And although other good forward lines don't all follow this model most of them do have a primary KPF that everything else is built around.

tl;dr - Our midfield isn't as dire as we assumed but it still needs to improve aspects next season (which it does seem capable of given the age demographic). But everything seems to point to use needing to recruit a quality KPF to build our forward line around urgently (including some dangerous small forwards). Until we can field a semi decent forward line we won't be competitive because our midfield can't possibly make up the massive quality/output difference with the top teams.
 

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According to Him Hagdorn this morning, Stephen Hill has just had another shoulder reconstruction and will be out of action for the next 3 months. It's the other shoulder this time apparently though.

Whilst it is a Hackdorn release it does make sense. I am now very hopeful that we will see Hilly back to his very best next year - he was definitely 'winged' after his return from injury this year and it didn't make sense why a hammy was causing such a performance drop.
 
Be interesting to see the possession counts per game.
We are regularly losing possession counts by 60-100 possessions.
Our midfield was down slightly. Our best 6 averaged 132 per game and best 10 averaged 208 per game. Whereas the top teams have midfields around 143 and 214 per game respectively. But this is best versus best so in reality would vary depending who we/they had on the park (ie injuries) and if they played midfield (eg Blakely, Weller etc). It isn't vastly different to Freo's previous years and I think we did well given we lost some solid contributors (eg Barlow). There are some good trends that will pay dividends in time, like Neale, who was down on disposals, but way up on effectiveness and impact. Once our young mids take another step, work the outside better and have a semi decent forward line to work with I don't see any reason why we couldn't improve dramatically on this next year. Darcy having a full pre-season and/or a fit Sandi will be very helpful also.

The best forward 6 was down by 20 to 30+ disposals on average versus the top teams. And the best 6 in the backline was also down by in the 10-20 range versus top teams. The issue with both is that the personnel changed a fair bit throughout the season (so these differences are likely understated a fair bit).
 
Did the old rule of Sub(or the use of ) affect the midfield /forward on stat and rotation ?
 
Our midfield was down slightly. Our best 6 averaged 132 per game and best 10 averaged 208 per game. Whereas the top teams have midfields around 143 and 214 per game respectively. But this is best versus best so in reality would vary depending who we/they had on the park (ie injuries) and if they played midfield (eg Blakely, Weller etc). It isn't vastly different to Freo's previous years and I think we did well given we lost some solid contributors (eg Barlow). There are some good trends that will pay dividends in time, like Neale, who was down on disposals, but way up on effectiveness and impact. Once our young mids take another step, work the outside better and have a semi decent forward line to work with I don't see any reason why we couldn't improve dramatically on this next year. Darcy having a full pre-season and/or a fit Sandi will be very helpful also.

The best forward 6 was down by 20 to 30+ disposals on average versus the top teams. And the best 6 in the backline was also down by in the 10-20 range versus top teams. The issue with both is that the personnel changed a fair bit throughout the season (so these differences are likely understated a fair bit).

Was thinking overall possessions, which reflects in ball retention and ball use, and at it's most basic level, restricting the opposition scoring.
If we've got the ball, they don't.

While being efficient with the ball is important, keeping possession is also important
 
Was thinking overall possessions, which reflects in ball retention and ball use, and at it's most basic level, restricting the opposition scoring.
If we've got the ball, they don't.

While being efficient with the ball is important, keeping possession is also important
You can get that directly off the AFL stats page: http://www.afl.com.au/stats - just sort by disposals

Freo were 2nd worst for disposals with 360.8 per game (only slightly ahead of Carlton). The top teams aren't the ones that got the most ball (ie. Melbourne, Collingwood, Essendon, St Kilda were the top 4 for disposals).

edit - Some top teams weren't far behind those teams mind you. Although Richmond only had 368.6 disposals per game (so only 8 more than us) and still finished top 4 :)
 
You can get that directly off the AFL stats page: http://www.afl.com.au/stats - just sort by disposals

Freo were 2nd worst for disposals with 360.8 per game (only slightly ahead of Carlton). The top teams aren't the ones that got the most ball (ie. Melbourne, Collingwood, Essendon, St Kilda were the top 4 for disposals).

edit - Some top teams weren't far behind those teams mind you. Although Richmond only had 368.6 disposals per game (so only 8 more than us) and still finished top 4 :)
Coach cares more about how many times the ball is in our forward line, rather than gameplan, setplays
less congestion.Turnovers, ball just goes out of the forward line just as fast as it comes in.
Whats worse is so many points kicked, then watching opposition teams just kick over the top of our
zoning, with short kicks.
 
Did the old rule of Sub(or the use of ) affect the midfield /forward on stat and rotation ?
I doubt it would be noticeable. At most it's just one player of 6 or 10 and they'd be subbed off for about a quarter a game. 1/4 of 1/6 or 1/10th isn't going to impact the stats much. Suspect in most cases the person subbed wouldn't appear in the lists (and the sub wouldn't at all) and would unlikely be a big contributor even if they did anyway - they aren't being subbed off for no reason ;) It's all just a guide anyway - getting exact figures would be close to impossible because a bunch of players aren't just "midfielders" or whatever.
 
I doubt it would be noticeable. At most it's just one player of 6 or 10 and they'd be subbed off for about a quarter a game. 1/4 of 1/6 or 1/10th isn't going to impact the stats much. Suspect in most cases the person subbed wouldn't appear in the lists (and the sub wouldn't at all) and would unlikely be a big contributor even if they did anyway - they aren't being subbed off for no reason ;) It's all just a guide anyway - getting exact figures would be close to impossible because a bunch of players aren't just "midfielders" or whatever.
Just my thought , eg Tab ,sheriden normally the sub .( Using less skilled players as sub or sub them out will had less turnover or wrong decision making on field )

Minimum time on field = less spud turn over the ball .
 
Coach cares more about how many times the ball is in our forward line, rather than gameplan, setplays
less congestion.Turnovers, ball just goes out of the forward line just as fast as it comes in.
Whats worse is so many points kicked, then watching opposition teams just kick over the top of our
zoning, with short kicks.
Yep forward line was an absolute disgrace this year. I rarely call for someone's head but we need a new forward line coach. Even with the poor personnel we have they surely should have shown some signs of improvement throughout the season? I wouldn't be surprised if I ran the numbers per game that it would confirm our forward line actually got worse as the season progressed.
 
Yep forward line was an absolute disgrace this year. I rarely call for someone's head but we need a new forward line coach. Even with the poor personnel we have they surely should have shown some signs of improvement throughout the season? I wouldn't be surprised if I ran the numbers per game that it would confirm our forward line actually got worse as the season progressed.
Now that Mayne, Balla, Walters , Deboer, Yarren,have been moved on, played midfield, age, etc, stands
out like dogs.
This year has proven that none of the above have been equalled in attack or defense.
 

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So WTG your analysis confirms pretty much what most of us observede subjectively, namely that the midfield group was the strongest component of this year's team. This is despite them going totally missing for entire games(Port, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney, Hawthorn) and significant portions of others. Personnel wise should continue to be a strength.
If we can get all our putative defenders together it's not difficult to imagine that our defence could rapidly return to previous lofty standards.
Forwards! Urrk! Poor selection, poor structure, poor personnel, poor ball movement, etc, etc. It's got to be better next year. Hasn't it?:(
 
According to Him Hagdorn this morning, Stephen Hill has just had another shoulder reconstruction and will be out of action for the next 3 months. It's the other shoulder this time apparently though.
I can throw some cold water on that one, he 100% had a stabilisation but not a reconstruction like Grey and Blakely
 
Yep forward line was an absolute disgrace this year. I rarely call for someone's head but we need a new forward line coach. Even with the poor personnel we have they surely should have shown some signs of improvement throughout the season? I wouldn't be surprised if I ran the numbers per game that it would confirm our forward line actually got worse as the season progressed.

We've had a new forward line coach every year over the last 4 seasons and the same issues have been there the whole time. Sumich was our best performed from memory and most on here think he is useless. I think the problem goes deeper than the forward coaches plans and strategies.

I did have to laugh at Ross bemoaning the lack of success that went with the "bombing" of the ball into the F50 and the opposition zoning off and continually creating 2 on 1's when he instructed his players to get the ball into the forward line quick and long back in 2009 after losing the GF. We did the same in 2013. We're still doing the same in 2017.
 
So WTG your analysis confirms pretty much what most of us observede subjectively, namely that the midfield group was the strongest component of this year's team. This is despite them going totally missing for entire games(Port, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney, Hawthorn) and significant portions of others. Personnel wise should continue to be a strength.
If we can get all our putative defenders together it's not difficult to imagine that our defence could rapidly return to previous lofty standards.
Forwards! Urrk! Poor selection, poor structure, poor personnel, poor ball movement, etc, etc. It's got to be better next year. Hasn't it?:(
The main point I am trying to get across is recruiting more midfielders probably won't make us that much more competitive. If we use pick #5 on a ball winner I'll be fairly annoyed/disappointed. We need someone that can kick goals. If that someone is a mid/fwd or even a gun small forward then great but I think a quality KPF would make more of a difference long term. Can Brander be that? I'm thinking he'd be the best bet but I'd also try and take another in the 2nd round if we can find one (or later if there is a good speculative out there). And then use the rest of our picks on goal kicking mids and small forwards - with a mix of both u18s and mature agers. I'd take Matera if that's a cheap option as well.
 
One thing I forgot to add was the inside 50s as I know a lot people (even Ross said some things) think the only reason our forwards were so poor this year was the lack of delivery inside 50.

Our 10 best mids this year averaged 29.5 inside 50s per game. Which is more than 2013, less than 2014 and about the same as 2015. In 2016 they averaged only 27.8 inside 50s.

2016 -> 27.8 i50s/game from midfield -> 8.2 goals/game by forwards
2017 -> 29.5 i50s/game from midfield -> 6.4 goals/game by forwards

Only the forwards themselves supplied less inside 50s in 2017 than they did in 2016. Probably not surprising really when they had 17 less disposals per game on average compared to 2016. Our defenders were slightly above with quantity of inside 50s for 2017. It was 47.5 (2017) vs 45.5 (2016) overall.

There is not stat indicating the quality of the i50s but from watching I don't think anyone would say our i50s were any better in 2016 than they were in 2017 either.

It can't always be the midfield's fault when forwards aren't doing well - especially over a whole season.
 
One thing I forgot to add was the inside 50s as I know a lot people (even Ross said some things) think the only reason our forwards were so poor this year was the lack of delivery inside 50.

Our 10 best mids this year averaged 29.5 inside 50s per game. Which is more than 2013, less than 2014 and about the same as 2015. In 2016 they averaged only 27.8 inside 50s.

2016 -> 27.8 i50s/game from midfield -> 8.2 goals/game by forwards
2017 -> 29.5 i50s/game from midfield -> 6.4 goals/game by forwards

Only the forwards themselves supplied less inside 50s in 2017 than they did in 2016. Probably not surprising really when they had 17 less disposals per game on average compared to 2016. Our defenders were slightly above with quantity of inside 50s for 2017. It was 47.5 (2017) vs 45.5 (2016) overall.

There is not stat indicating the quality of the i50s but from watching I don't think anyone would say our i50s were any better in 2016 than they were in 2017 either.

It can't always be the midfield's fault when forwards aren't doing well - especially over a whole season.

Letting the ball bounce off your chest doesn't help.
 
Looking at the sides named for the finals and it baffles me how other teams seem to be able to get through seasons with very little injuries. I can't remember the last time we got even close to the end of the season with even close to our best 22 available.

The club has made a lot of noise over the last couple of years about reviewing our injury issues but as yet nothing has improved. We must improve in this area and quickly!!!
 
Bond on 720 AM:Basically saying it's close to a full system and structure review at this time of year.
Coaches there now are re-contracted doesn't mean there will be no change.
Him,Steve,Ross and the big rower are looking at coaching structure and expertise now.
Heaps of praise for The Fist and Ibbo.
Bondy was a Federal Pollie in another life;just double-speaks everything and gives nothing away.
Sounds as though Danyle will be there for next season,but he wouldn't tell you if they were paying him out.
There'll be list changes including players who are there now.
Bennell was basically rested for WAFL finals in order to be trouble free for pre-season.
Improvement needed to eradicate non-competitive games first,then fit and available,good recruiting,blah blah psychobabble.
Leaders must stand up across all areas of club most particularly in a rebuild period.
Bondy wasn't even told Clive was at the club??
Bondy has got Maxwell's cone of silence and nothing new gets out.
 
One thing I forgot to add was the inside 50s as I know a lot people (even Ross said some things) think the only reason our forwards were so poor this year was the lack of delivery inside 50.

Our 10 best mids this year averaged 29.5 inside 50s per game. Which is more than 2013, less than 2014 and about the same as 2015. In 2016 they averaged only 27.8 inside 50s.

2016 -> 27.8 i50s/game from midfield -> 8.2 goals/game by forwards
2017 -> 29.5 i50s/game from midfield -> 6.4 goals/game by forwards

Only the forwards themselves supplied less inside 50s in 2017 than they did in 2016. Probably not surprising really when they had 17 less disposals per game on average compared to 2016. Our defenders were slightly above with quantity of inside 50s for 2017. It was 47.5 (2017) vs 45.5 (2016) overall.

There is not stat indicating the quality of the i50s but from watching I don't think anyone would say our i50s were any better in 2016 than they were in 2017 either.

It can't always be the midfield's fault when forwards aren't doing well - especially over a whole season.
Just want to say that adding a quality mid (or fwd or whatever) might not affect the "stats" for the 6-8 "best performing" players in that area of the ground, but they will hopefully displace one of the worst performing players. i.e. Pick 5 as a quality mid isn't going to displace Fyfe, but hopefully we never see Sheridan, Subes, Sutty, D.Pearce, etc ever again.
 

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