Review 2017 - Revisit the 2017 AFL draft

Dogs_r_barking

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I love how posters are jerking off about Naughton here! Yeah sure, he should be a great key position player in time and I look forward to seeing that unfold in the future, but he's really only shown glimpses of his potential and hasn't done jack **** compared to the consistency of some of the others, which is prolly why others are rated above him at this point of time, don't you think?
Do you still think that, after achieving the status of youngest player to take 9 contested marks in a game?
 

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Dogs_r_barking

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There is recent form and then there is established form and Tim Kelly and Liam Ryan prolly win out over Naughton on both but am not the one rating them, it all is subjective, which is why you shouldn't be demanding top billing when Naughton has been given a mention in most top10s. Did I say anything about him not going to be a great player? I don't take kindly to being called names for having an opinion.
How old is Kelly, 24 isn’t he, five years older than Naughton.
 

Dogs_r_barking

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I don't believe that he is overrated at all. He is overrated like Hooker for Essendon and McDonald for Melbourne. All 3 of these players are fabulous at CHB/FB but when asked to be the focal point up front they are just not up to it. When moved back they are guns and make the entire back line better. Naughton is just being wasted in the forward line.
Really?
 

BJK#5

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How old is Kelly, 24 isn’t he, five years older than Naughton.
Yes and he is also playing at a significantly higher level at the moment, Naughton has the ability to reach that level but it is only potential at the moment. We have already seen Kelly maintain this high level.
 

Cadillac

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You know Stephenson came in to Collingwood when they were regarded as having one of the most dysfunctional forward lines in the league right? The kid came in, played from day 1 and almost single handedly transformed our forward line with his speed, defensive pressure and goal kicking nous. This talk about him being a role player in a good team is nonsense. He walks in to any team in the league and automatically makes them better.

I like Naughton, and think he’ll be a gun, but all this talk from dogs supporters that he’s suddenly the unanimous number 1 pick after a couple of good games is nonsense...
Naughton being mentioned as the #1 player in the draft isn’t based on “a couple of good games” it’s based on the fact he came into the league at 18 as a key position defender and finished top 4 in our best and fairest. And has been moved up forward with zero preparation over the pre season in the final JLT game and has looked unreal.

I never said anything negative about Stephenson. He looks very good. But let’s not pretend that he was the reason that Hoskin Elliot, Cox, Varcoe, Josh Thomas, myochek and De Goey all had breakout seasons last year. Would love to see what Naughton could do in that forward line.
 

conrad_437

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Yes and he is also playing at a significantly higher level at the moment, Naughton has the ability to reach that level but it is only potential at the moment. We have already seen Kelly maintain this high level.
Kelly is in a midfield where, depending on Ablett or Selwood's form he is often the third most important mid. Hence he is often left to his own devices by the opposition relative to the amount of attention players such as Ablett or Dangerfield will receive. Naughton, no less than five years younger than Kelly playing in a significantly more difficult role which often requires much greater development, receives much greater attention from opposition defenders (being our only competent forward at the moment), and yet still being able to kick 5.3 which taking 14 marks (9 contested) is astounding. I'll reiterate - the kid is 19 years of age. Kelly is almost 25 and despite being an absolute jet, he has little improvement left in him. The sky is the limit for Naughton, and even if he doesn't reach the heights of Kelly, many will still rate Naughton #1 due to the KPF factor and his versatility.
 

Cadillac

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Yes and he is also playing at a significantly higher level at the moment, Naughton has the ability to reach that level but it is only potential at the moment. We have already seen Kelly maintain this high level.
You don’t understand how drafts work, do you? You don’t draft a player with the #1 pick on what he will be from 12-18 months. You draft them #1 based on what he will be for the next 10+ years.

Tim Kelly right now at 25, has form that will make him in the extended AA squad but probably not good enough to make it. Naughton at 19 has already come 4th in the best and fairest as a key defender. Has moved forward and is coming second in the league for contested marks. And has potential to be one of the games most dominant key position players once he gets more experience. He’s only had two games this year where he’s failed to have an impact. And as a key forward who’s 19. That’s enough to get any fan base excited.

At 27 years old, I’ve seen plenty of Tim Kelly’s come and go as a dogs supporter. But I’ve only ever seen one Chris Grant. And Aaron Naughton has the potential to be that level of player. And that is why you always draft a KPP with huge upside > a mature aged midfielder with a very high floor.
 
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BJK#5

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You don’t understand how drafts work, do you? You don’t draft a player with the #1 pick on what he will be from 12-18 months. You draft them #1 based on what he will be for the next 10+ years.

Tim Kelly right now at 25, has form that will make him in the extended AA squad but probably not good enough to make it. Naughton at 19 has already come 4th in the best and fairest as a key defender. Has moved forward and is coming second in the league for contested marks. And has potential to be one of the games most dominant key position players once he gets more experience. He’s only had two games this year where he’s failed to have an impact. And as a key forward who’s 19. That’s enough to get any fan base excited.

At 27 years old, I’ve seen plenty of Tim Kelly’s come and go as a dogs supporter. But I’ve only ever seen one Chris Grant. And Aaron Naughton has the potential to be that level of player. And that is why you always draft a KPP with huge upside > a mature aged midfielder with a very high floor.
Okay he has elite hands and is still working on the rest of his game. His forward craft is still not great and he still goes missing for large parts of games, he has potential and he may be the best player from this draft and i have no doubt some teams would take him at 1. I am fairly certain that not all teams would and he is far from the undisputed number 1 pick from this draft and that is all i'm saying.
 
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Apex36

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Naughton being mentioned as the #1 player in the draft isn’t based on “a couple of good games” it’s based on the fact he came into the league at 18 as a key position defender and finished top 4 in our best and fairest. And has been moved up forward with zero preparation over the pre season in the final JLT game and has looked unreal.
The dogs were garbage last year so top 4 in your B&F isn’t a massive achievement...
I never said anything negative about Stephenson. He looks very good. But let’s not pretend that he was the reason that Hoskin Elliot, Cox, Varcoe, Josh Thomas, myochek and De Goey all had breakout seasons last year. Would love to see what Naughton could do in that forward line.
Varcoe had a breakout season? Wat? Cox was statistically worse last year than 2017. You’re right with WHE JDG and Thomas I guess, but Stephenson was part of the reason that they were able to get the freedom they had. Teams ended up putting serious time in to Stephenson. He was our number 1 small forward by mid season, saying he’s playing 4th forward is either disengenuous or more likely an assumption based on you not really watching Collingwood games and assuming he’s getting lesser defenders because of his inexperience.
 

Cadillac

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The dogs were garbage last year so top 4 in your B&F isn’t a massive achievement...
.
Finishing top 4 as a Key position player in a **** side as an 18 year old isn’t a massive achievement ? .. but yet you will credit Stephenson for playing well in a stacked side.. lol the irony.
 

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Warhorse

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Okay he has elite hands and is still working on the rest of his game. His forward craft is still not great and he still goes missing for large parts of games, he has potential and he may be the best player from this draft and i have no doubt some teams would take him at 1. I am fairly certain that not all teams would and he is far from the undisputed number 1 pick from this draft and that is all i'm saying.
The best forwards make the players around them better by creating space and drawing defenders with their forward craft and leading patterns. Naughton does none of that and causes the forward line around him to be collectively worse. Cutting of others on the lead. Standing in the space so no one has any space to work with. Great hands but gee wizz he is a dumb forward.
 

BJK#5

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Finishing top 4 as a Key position player in a **** side as an 18 year old isn’t a massive achievement ? .. but yet you will credit Stephenson for playing well in a stacked side.. lol the irony.
For playing at a significantly higher level...
 

Apex36

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Finishing top 4 as a Key position player in a **** side as an 18 year old isn’t a massive achievement ? .. but yet you will credit Stephenson for playing well in a stacked side.. lol the irony.
I credit Stephenson for having the best first year any forward has had for about 30 years, and for making the players around him better while doing it.
 

Cadillac

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I credit Stephenson for having the best first year any forward has had for about 30 years, and for making the players around him better while doing it.
And I credit Naughton for having a fantastic first year and having one of the best seasons for a 19 year old playing his first season up forward. While having the oppositions best defender on him and having poor delivery coming to him inside 50.
 

conrad_437

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I credit Stephenson for having the best first year any forward has had for about 30 years, and for making the players around him better while doing it.
If you want to go down that path, then Jesse Hogan had 'the best first year any forward has had for about 30 years' in 2015 where he kicked 44 goals in only 20 matches (Jaidyn kicked 28 in 26). Hogan also played in a diabolical Melbourne Team as their only competent forward. You can't seriously say that Stephenson made the players around him better more so than any other Collingwood forward, they're all part of the same system that makes them far and away the best forward line in the league. He's a gun, Stephenson, but his ceiling is much, much lower than Naughton's.
 

Apex36

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If you want to go down that path, then Jesse Hogan had 'the best first year any forward has had for about 30 years' in 2015 where he kicked 44 goals in only 20 matches (Jaidyn kicked 28 in 26). Hogan also played in a diabolical Melbourne Team as their only competent forward. You can't seriously say that Stephenson made the players around him better more so than any other Collingwood forward, they're all part of the same system that makes them far and away the best forward line in the league. He's a gun, Stephenson, but his ceiling is much, much lower than Naughton's.
Hogans first year he was eligible to play was 2014. By 2015 he had been in the AFL system for 2 years, having been drafted underage in 2012 by Melbourne in the BS minidrafts they had back then. So yes, Stephensons first year was indeed the best in around 30 years.

That aside, your argument that Naughton’s ceiling is somehow higher than Stephensons is pretty laughable. They’re two completely different players who will both have excellent careers. Naughton will become a very good KPP. Stephenson will become a midfielder over time once his endurance builds and his body fills out. Both will be guns. If it makes you feel good to say that Naughton’s ceiling is somehow higher than Stephenson’s, have at it I guess, but you’d very likely be wrong.
 

conrad_437

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Hogans first year he was eligible to play was 2014. By 2015 he had been in the AFL system for 2 years, having been drafted underage in 2012 by Melbourne in the BS minidrafts they had back then. So yes, Stephensons first year was indeed the best in around 30 years.

That aside, your argument that Naughton’s ceiling is somehow higher than Stephensons is pretty laughable. They’re two completely different players who will both have excellent careers. Naughton will become a very good KPP. Stephenson will become a midfielder over time once his endurance builds and his body fills out. Both will be guns. If it makes you feel good to say that Naughton’s ceiling is somehow higher than Stephenson’s, have at it I guess, but you’d very likely be wrong.
You can say that it wasn't his first year on a technicality, but that doesn't take away the fact that Hogan's first year of playing AFL footy was 2015. Aside from that, you only have to go back to 2012 to find a forward who had a better first year than Stephenson - Jeremy Cameron, who kicked 1.8 goals a game compared to Jaidyn's 1.4, as well as being in a team in it's first year who routinely got murdered. Think about how many goals he would have kicked in Jaidyn's forwardline!

They may be two different players, but the difference in potential is fairly clear to see. Naughton at this stage (as a forward) is purely an elite contested marker with elite athleticism. The kid trained in defense for the whole pre-season, only playing forward for the second JLT. He has little to no forward craft and is essentially playing markers up at the moment, something that makes his game even more impressive. He has got a long way to go before his potential is realised.

Keep in mind I am in no way trying to disrespect Jaidyn as a player or say he is no good. I am simply pointing out that you are delusional if you thought Jaidyn's first year was the best ever by a forward, as well as pointing out that Naughton is the second coming ;)
 

Apex36

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You can say that it wasn't his first year on a technicality, but that doesn't take away the fact that Hogan's first year of playing AFL footy was 2015. Aside from that, you only have to go back to 2012 to find a forward who had a better first year than Stephenson - Jeremy Cameron, who kicked 1.8 goals a game compared to Jaidyn's 1.4, as well as being in a team in it's first year who routinely got murdered. Think about how many goals he would have kicked in Jaidyn's forwardline!

They may be two different players, but the difference in potential is fairly clear to see. Naughton at this stage (as a forward) is purely an elite contested marker with elite athleticism. The kid trained in defense for the whole pre-season, only playing forward for the second JLT. He has little to no forward craft and is essentially playing markers up at the moment, something that makes his game even more impressive. He has got a long way to go before his potential is realised.

Keep in mind I am in no way trying to disrespect Jaidyn as a player or say he is no good. I am simply pointing out that you are delusional if you thought Jaidyn's first year was the best ever by a forward, as well as pointing out that Naughton is the second coming ;)
Cameron has a higher goal average but played less games and kicked less goals total. Once again, you’re acting like Stephenson walked in to the league’s best forward line rather than one that was regarded as one of the leagues weakest at the time. Nice narrative.

The difference in potential is only clear if you’re a biased twit who’s desperate for his team to ‘win’ the draft. As it stands, there’s no way you could seperate Stephenson, Naughton, Rayner and a few others in this draft as to who will end up being the best player. This talk of Naughton being ‘clear number 1’ by dogs supporters is nonsense. Sorry if that upsets you.
 
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