Position 2017 Rucks

[Flandersss]

I'll happily take Witts if he dominates in the JLT and if he'll be rucking solo
The bloke is 210cm tall, surely he can get a few hitouts to advantage

This does not change the fact that I think he's the slowest human in the world, and he is a massive spud

TBC all over again imo

 

[G-TRAIN07]

I'll happily take Witts if he dominates in the JLT and if he'll be rucking solo
The bloke is 210cm tall, surely he can get a few hitouts to advantage

This does not change the fact that I think he's the slowest human in the world, and he is a massive spud

Someone needs a drink lol

 

[Hairy Lager]

Obvious reasons? Surely you're not suggesting that we're dirty because he left? LOL. The honesty answer is no, we're not dirty, in fact were cleansed. The honest answer is most Pies supporters shitcanned him as a Pie.....because he was shit. He's a below average tap ruckman & does absolutely nothing around the ground. Nothing. Not to mention he is slow as ****. He wasn't known as **** Witt for nothing!

The only blind eye you'll have is a result of him having shit in it! This is an honest answer of one Pie brother extending an olive branch to a nemesis. Stay away

POTY contender.

 

[Dennis Trumpet]

Obvious reasons? Surely you're not suggesting that we're dirty because he left? LOL. The honesty answer is no, we're not dirty, in fact were cleansed. The honest answer is most Pies supporters shitcanned him as a Pie.....because he was shit. He's a below average tap ruckman & does absolutely nothing around the ground. Nothing. Not to mention he is slow as ****. He wasn't known as **** Witt for nothing!

The only blind eye you'll have is a result of him having shit in it! This is an honest answer of one Pie brother extending an olive branch to a nemesis. Stay away

The more I hear Collingwood fans shit on witts, the more I'm starting to consider him.

He's tall as **** and was always going to take time to build an aerobic base and muscle. Was kept out of the team pretty much all year by grundy His end to vfl season looks very promising.

I've almost talked myself into it

 

[Hairy Lager]

This rucks thread involves what, 60 players max compared to 600 odd mids and is quickly catching up to it in posts made.

The Ruck Thread is the place to be SC campaigners.

Should rename it the Make or Break thread.

 

[stevebbb]

TBC all over again imo

Someone needs a drink lol

haha jeez, I didn't know the wider football hated Witts as much as us Pies supporters

Let me reiterate, I hate him!
He is so slow, watching him waddle around when he played for us was so damn painful.
He is also terrible playing in the forward 50

but so is the great Sandilands, slow and terrible in the forward 50

So let's look at the facts..

1. Witts has never had a chance to play as the number 1 ruck, always had Grundy around
2. He is 24 yo, 210cm tall
3. He is a decent tap ruckman
4. The no 3rd man up rule helps him
5. He is having a great preseason, very fit
6. He averaged 72 and 73 in 2014 and 2015 sharing the ruck duties with Grundy

So, IF, just IF, he is going to play number 1 ruck at the Suns, he has every chance to average 80-95

Also, Eade is the Suns' coach.
He would have worked closely with Witts in 2013 and 2014 when he was at the Pies, so he knows what he's getting

At $220k, you simply can't put a line through him this early

 

[Chism]

haha jeez, I didn't know the wider football hated Witts as much as us Pies supporters

Let me reiterate, I hate him!
He is so slow, watching him waddle around when he played for us was so damn painful.
He is also terrible playing in the forward 50

but so is the great Sandilands, slow and terrible in the forward 50

So let's look at the facts..

1. Witts has never had a chance to play as the number 1 ruck, always had Grundy around
2. He is 24 yo, 210cm tall
3. He is a decent tap ruckman
4. The no 3rd man up rule helps him
5. He is having a great preseason, very fit
6. He averaged 72 and 73 in 2014 and 2015 sharing the ruck duties with Grundy

So, IF, just IF, he is going to play number 1 ruck at the Suns, he has every chance to average 80-95

Also, Eade is the Suns' coach.
He would have worked closely with Witts in 2013 and 2014 when he was at the Pies, so he knows what he's getting

At $220k, you simply can't put a line through him this early

Also add to the fact that Eade gave up 2 draft picks to get him at the Suns....... You do not do this if you want the bloke playing in the reserves all season.

 

[Kadog]

Curious. For the Witts supporters out there, what do you project him to average to the rd9 byes coz I assume that's when you'll upgrade?

How much $$ would you require to make that upgrade? What will that premo R2 upgrade be priced at around upgrade time?

Going by his 14/15 avg of 72, he'll be priced at around $325k come rd9. Is that enough?? ....assuming he can even match that avg, which I doubt.

 

[Chism]

Curious. For the Witts supporters out there, what do you project him to average to the rd9 byes coz I assume that's when you'll upgrade?

How much $$ would you require to make that upgrade? What will that premo R2 upgrade be priced at around upgrade time?

Going by his 14/15 avg of 72, he'll be priced at around $325k come rd9. Is that enough?? ....assuming he can even match that avg, which I doubt.

To many hypothetical options in that scenario and all depends what cash you have in the bank at the time and downgrade option you made to upgrade Witts to a Premo ruck.

BUT if Witts is at 325k+ come Rd 9 i will be happy and job done.

Surely he does not go backwards from his 2013/14 seasons with the new rules and Ablett at his ankles...... Even if it takes till Rd 13 to reach his peak he has done his job IMO and many 400k+ rucks are in the same average pt range as Witts this season.

 

[Chism]

The massive upside with taking Witts if you have replaced him with Goldy at R2 or any other high price ruck is the Mid that you can bring in for a bench rookie!

Do the Maths..... R2 is Goldy or anyone at 500k+ and a bench rookie in the midfield.

Bring Witts in now starting R2 and then it allows you to upgrade a bench rookie to a starting Premo 550K+ average price Mid.

If Witts still averages 80 odd your team is better off as that extra free 550k+ Mid is GOLD at M5or 6 depending on your initial Premo to Rookie midfield setup.

 

[Kadog]

Also add to the fact that Eade gave up 2 draft picks to get him at the Suns....... You do not do this if you want the bloke playing in the reserves all season.

Mate I like the cheap R2 strategy to

To many hypothetical options in that scenario and all depends what cash you have in the bank at the time and downgrade option you made to upgrade Witts to a Premo ruck.

BUT if Witts is at 325k+ come Rd 9 i will be happy and job done.

Surely he does not go backwards from his 2013/14 seasons with the new rules and Ablett at his ankles...... Even if it takes till Rd 13 to reach his peak he has done his job IMO and many 400k+ rucks are in the same average pt range as Witts this season.

Those hypotheticals are real considerations that need to be made come rd9. I like the cheap R2 thinking, I just don't think Witts is the answer.

 

[Kadog]

The massive upside with taking Witts if you have replaced him with Goldy at R2 or any other high price ruck is the Mid that you can bring in for a bench rookie!

Do the Maths..... R2 is Goldy or anyone at 500k+ and a bench rookie in the midfield.

Bring Witts in now starting R2 and then it allows you to upgrade a bench rookie to a starting Premo 550K+ average price Mid.

If Witts still averages 80 odd your team is better off as that extra free 550k+ Mid is GOLD at M5or 6 depending on your initial Premo to Rookie midfield setup.

It's a wash. Either way you have a SP and a rookie (figuratively speaking)

Goldy 110 & rookie 65 (total cap $711k) vs
Witts 70 & $550k mid 105 (cap $767k)

The first rookie will make more money for you AND you have still have $55k extra in the bank.

 

[poido]

Headaches aplenty in the ruck department. I was set on Goldy and Ryder, til I saw Goldy recently roll an ankle.

I considered Witts but I won't do that to myself. That guy is a bonifide stiff

 

[stevebbb]

Curious. For the Witts supporters out there, what do you project him to average to the rd9 byes coz I assume that's when you'll upgrade?

How much $$ would you require to make that upgrade? What will that premo R2 upgrade be priced at around upgrade time?

Going by his 14/15 avg of 72, he'll be priced at around $325k come rd9. Is that enough?? ....assuming he can even match that avg, which I doubt.

If I take him at R2, knowing he'll start the season in ripping condition and has the number 1 ruck spot locked away, I expect nothing less than 80

He averaged 72/73 sharing the ruck load with Grundy 50/50

Let's see what he can do with 80% ruck time

 

[Chism]

It's a wash. Either way you have a SP and a rookie (figuratively speaking)

Goldy 110 & rookie 65 (total cap $711k) vs
Witts 70 & $550k mid 105 (cap $767k)

The first rookie will make more money for you AND you have still have $55k extra in the bank.

Goldy 110??????????

You for real and he is injured as of right now ( Maybe Rd3 fit ) and IF Goldy was this 110 magical beast you predict Witts would not even be warranted in conversation but Goldy is FAR from a 110 ruck as of right now.

Hence why we are having this convo.

 

[Keg on legs]

Tom Hickey will be a decent option at R2 but he is just soooo inconsistent and is capable of a blinder score than be prepared for 4 weeks of around 65 scores.

The thing that puts me off hickey is Billy Longer.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Billy get a chance this year and if he plays well hickey may find it hard to get back in.

We are blessed with two best 22 ruckmen, but cursed that we can't structure up with 2 of them in the same side.

If the club is looking to move one on at the end of the year (most likely Billy at this stage) then his value will increase significantly if he plays a few games.

Too many unknowns for me

Ryder a lock at R2 for me.

 

[Kadog]

Goldy 110??????????

You for real and he is injured as of right now ( Maybe Rd3 fit ) and IF Goldy was this 110 magical beast you predict Witts would not even be warranted in conversation but Goldy is FAR from a 110 ruck as of right now.

Hence why we are having this convo.

I am for real. Injury aside, Goldy is far more realistic prospect of going 110 than Witts going 80. Goldstein has history to back that up. Where you been the last 4 years?

He avgd 108 last year with a bung knee FFS.

Go ahead with Witts by all means. My popcorn is ready

 

[Kadog]

If I take him at R2, knowing he'll start the season in ripping condition and has the number 1 ruck spot locked away, I expect nothing less than 80

He averaged 72/73 sharing the ruck load with Grundy 50/50

Let's see what he can do with 80% ruck time

FTR his matchups first 8 weeks are:

Stef Martin
Mumford
McEvoy/Ceglar
Kruezer
Sauce
Goldstein
Zach Smith/Blicavs
Ryder

Nothing less than 80avg over his first 8 weeks. Good luck with dat!

 

[Chism]

Ryder a lock at R2 for me.

Fair enough but it is big money for a bloke that has not played footy for a while and in competition with Lobbe for a starting job while resting forward.

I see stuff all difference between Witts and Ryder with both around the 80pt mk on any given week and one is 250k+ cheaper with a team that has given a fair bit for him at the trade table and almost guaranteed him 22 games.

Ryder while being better around the ground than Witts is far from an accomplished tap ruckman.

 

[Chism]

FTR his matchups first 8 weeks are:

Stef Martin
Mumford
McEvoy/Ceglar
Kruezer
Sauce
Goldstein
Zach Smith/Blicavs
Ryder

Nothing less than 80avg over his first 8 weeks. Good luck with dat!

80 average makes you money though and no one is saying Witts is a super star but this year he is SC relevant as a bonafide R2 with the current ruck situation as many are banged up and injured.

 

[Kadog]

Fair enough but it is big money for a bloke that has not played footy for a while and in competition with Lobbe for a starting job while resting forward.

I see stuff all difference between Witts and Ryder with both around the 80pt mk on any given week and one is 250k+ cheaper with a team that has given a fair bit for him at the trade table and almost guaranteed him 22 games.

Ryder while being better around the ground than Witts is far from an accomplished tap ruckman.

Sorry Chism but comparing Ryder with Witts on par, you just lost all credibility with me.

I'll put dollars on that matchup.

 

[Chism]

Sorry Chism but comparing Ryder with Witts on par, you just lost all credibility with me.

I'll put dollars on that matchup.

Given the $$$ difference and what it means to team structure i can easily see Ryder averaging 90 odd SC wise with a few 100+games and Witts around the 80 average with the odd 90 or even ton but way more 70 scores than 100's!

I am not saying Witts is better at all but look at the big picture and what each player costs you in your team especially if you are starting Ryder at R2.

Ryder not played AFL since 2015 and has better tap ruckmen around him competing for the same job.

Witts is in his prime breakout range for a ruckman at 24yo and Eade gave up draft picks to land him at the Suns after coming from the Pies.

I just see more upside with Witts from a purely SC team focus and there is no way i will say Witts ais a better player than Ryder right now.

Take the Pie glasses off cause he left and realize the value Witts brings to the table at R2.

 

[Moustachio]

No third man up I have wanted for ages. Stupid to have ruckmen and then spoil the duel with some dickhead coming in from the side, dangerous and diminishes the spectacle of two rucks plying their trade.
IMO anyway.


BTW what was Sam Jacobs problem last year. Knee?

General shitness.

 

[Kadog]

80 average makes you money though and no one is saying Witts is a super star but this year he is SC relevant as a bonafide R2 with the current ruck situation as many are banged up and injured.

You're projecting figures on something he's never done. Ever. Purely on the basis that his has a starting job as the Suns r1. That is called hope or wishful thinking.

ive seen him numerous times 'live' as our solo ruckman. He is hopeless. Dunno what else to say.

Seriously good luck if that's the path you choose. I can't engage in anymore Witts SUPERCOACH talk. The two don't match. Oil n water.

 

[Hairy Lager]

Fair enough but it is big money for a bloke that has not played footy for a while and in competition with Lobbe for a starting job while resting forward.

I see stuff all difference between Witts and Ryder with both around the 80pt mk on any given week and one is 250k+ cheaper with a team that has given a fair bit for him at the trade table and almost guaranteed him 22 games.

Ryder while being better around the ground than Witts is far from an accomplished tap ruckman.

Dam it why you do this, Darcy Cameron if he starts round 1 is locked r2, screw the rucks.

General shitness.

Read that as General soreness, lolz.