2017 trade/draft thread

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

So a fringe, not best 22 player is worth a third round pick? Port will be happy to hear that.

Contracted and played 150 afl games compared to

Uncontracted and 27 games in 6 years

 

[StateOE]

Back in 1995 we drafted a bloke who debuted in the forward line at AFL level, after playing similar in the WAFL at league level. He averaged 1.7 and 1.3 goals per game playing predominantly as a half-forward in his first 2 seasons, averaging around 14 possessions.

He was a pretty good midfielder at the end of it all.

I wasn't implying playing forward would stunt his midfield ability.
Our very own list manager is trying to address our midfield issues this draft/trade period.
We have an untried option in Venables available, why not try it?

 

[boondy]

Contracted and played 150 afl games compared to

Uncontracted and 27 games in 6 years

The first 7 in a green vest

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Despite the forwardline having a down year and our best forward missing a quarter of the season, we still had one of the most efficient forwardlines in the comp this year. Lecras and Hill obviously dropped off a cliff, which meant Cripps had to sacrifice his normal game to pick up their slack, and as a result his game suffered too. With the addition of Rioli and Venables next year it should give a new dimension to the forwardline, and will allow Cripps to play his natural role again which led him to 7th and 8th in the B&F respectively in 2015 and 2016. I think we will have a top 4 tier forwardline again next year behind only Adelaide, GWS and maybe Essendon.

Backline should be top 4 quality again, already got 2 AA's down there with Duggan and Barrass only getting better.

How the midfield will function is the 64 million dollar question, obviously Nic nat and Lycett back is a huge boost in the clearances and contested possessions department, just depends how the other mids go in filling Priddis and Mitchell's shoes, which I believe they'll easily be able to do. Both Priddis and Mitchell at their peak were great players but both getting significant minutes in the same midfield past their prime, Priddis in particular, and without a quality ruck was always going to be a problem, especially with the way the game is played in 2017. I have a feeling Shuey will have his best season yet with the return of Naitanui and quicker mids around him allowing him off the leash more, Redden and Sheed will flourish with more midfield minutes as we saw them do later in the season, Ah Chee I believe will be a more than handy addition. Duggan and Yeo willl only get better with more time in the middle and if we can add Kelly in the draft we will have another mid with break away speed and goal kicking ability.

Sincerely think we will challenge for top 4 next year, as it was we beat 4 of the other 7 top 8 teams. Lost a few games we shouldn't have due to lack of leg speed being exposed towards the end of games which shouldn't be nearly as much of a problem next year. Worst case scenario I still think we will finish 7th or 8th given the quality of the forward and backline, assuming the midfield doesn't fire. Really not sure how some have us tipped for bottom 6.

I believe the biggest issue is the attitude of the team. Let's face facts, the last 2 years has seen the premiership being won by the team that showed the greatest desire. Not the most talented team of individuals, the team.

Therefore the biggest benefit for success in 2018 would be to consistently show the desire we witnessed in the last home game against Adelaide. That feels more like the spirit we had in 2015 so we know that Simpson can deliver and the majority of the senior leaders from 2015 are still at the club.

Changes:
Attack - if Rioli and Venables can lift to their potential, add to that JK, Darling, Vardy/Lycett and a fit Cripps, then we are one of the better attacks. Backing in LeCras without form also brings about opposition half backs not being picked up.

Defence - McGovern, Yeo, Barrass/Mackenzie, Sheppard and Hurn are a great start. Simpson must address the "going too tall" and the eMac is not able to play on smalls. If we have one of Nelson, Watson, Cole, Rotham, etc lift and have a breakout year, we have a great defence. Who knows, more than 1 of these lift and Yeo may be able to spend more time as an outside mid. I say outside as persisting with Yeo as an inside mid has not really worked.

Midfield - as many have said, NicNat back fills over many cracks. Gaff is still a great winger when we use his strengths. Shuey has that inside burst that is A grade. We just need Redden to be that first ball get inside bull, Sheed to play the distributor clearance king and some of our other mids (Duggan, Nelson, Partington, Cole, Pick 13, etc) to find another gear and make that step up.

Get these things right, we are top 8, if not top 4.

Have the attitude and inconsistency of 2016 and 2017, we are anywhere from 7 to 15.

 

[Godfather32]

Thanks RookiePick, I'm aware of the foot issues/fitness for this year.
With due respect, it sounds as if he's got an ACL with the way we're wrapping him up in cotton wool.
If his foot is healed, a full preseason should get his fitness up to scratch to play midfield.
Foot issue shouldn't take a couple of years to recover from.

Foot injuries can be very hard to overcome and often reoccur with overuse. Need to be conservative with Venables otherwise we risk losing hin for another season.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Daniel Cherny ‏Verified account @DanielCherny 1m1 minute ago
Some minor footy news, Fremantle have ceased using Leading Teams. Crows, Hawks and Lions among those still using it though.

what does that mean>

Ross is the Boss

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

I believe the biggest issue is the attitude of the team. Let's face facts, the last 2 years has seen the premiership being won by the team that showed the greatest desire. Not the most talented team of individuals, the team.

Therefore the biggest benefit for success in 2018 would be to consistently show the desire we witnessed in the last home game against Adelaide. That feels more like the spirit we had in 2015 so we know that Simpson can deliver and the majority of the senior leaders from 2015 are still at the club.

Changes:
Attack - if Rioli and Venables can lift to their potential, add to that JK, Darling, Vardy/Lycett and a fit Cripps, then we are one of the better attacks. Backing in LeCras without form also brings about opposition half backs not being picked up.

Defence - McGovern, Yeo, Barrass/Mackenzie, Sheppard and Hurn are a great start. Simpson must address the "going too tall" and the eMac is not able to play on smalls. If we have one of Nelson, Watson, Cole, Rotham, etc lift and have a breakout year, we have a great defence. Who knows, more than 1 of these lift and Yeo may be able to spend more time as an outside mid. I say outside as persisting with Yeo as an inside mid has not really worked.

Midfield - as many have said, NicNat back fills over many cracks. Gaff is still a great winger when we use his strengths. Shuey has that inside burst that is A grade. We just need Redden to be that first ball get inside bull, Sheed to play the distributor clearance king and some of our other mids (Duggan, Nelson, Partington, Cole, Pick 13, etc) to find another gear and make that step up.

Get these things right, we are top 8, if not top 4.

Have the attitude and inconsistency of 2016 and 2017, we are anywhere from 7 to 15.

agree 100%, mindset is the key here. Hoping an injection of youth and completely different midfield setup to usual can change this. I feel like the relative slow pace of a lot of players this year meant that others had to pick up more slack than they should've, which had a knock on effect into running out games which presented itself as lack of desire or energy. I think Shuey as captain is a must, his recent finals performances show he is a leader and can stand up in big moments, Venables by all accounts is a bit of a campaigner, Willie can bring some grunt, obviously naitanui and lycett relish in the physical stuff, and from what I've seen Ah Chee likes to throw his body around, assuming we pick him up as well. Plus Duggan and Nelson are getting stronger each year and both seem to love dishing out a bit of s**t to the opposition. I think we will see a very different side next year.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Out of curiousity, I thought we drafted Venables to play midfield.
Why is he playing HF in the WAFL and potentially at AFL level?
Give the kid a chance to potentially address our midfield issue and if it doesn't work out he can move up forward.
Why would a forward position be the first option?

Not sure how much of the TAC cup and carnival you saw but Venables played as a half forward who took a turn in midfield rotations. He was not a midfielder who rested forward.

So if you want to play him in the position that he played when we drafted him, that would be half forward.

Venables has not had an injury free year for the past 3 seasons. There is a real question mark over his durability and until he gets a bloc injury free, we will not know his midfield capability. The games I saw him paying at EP this year - he was half forward with a very small amount of time in the midfield.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

High tackling, manic pressure forwardlines seem to be one of the key themes of the last few years, and I think a forwardline of Kennedy, Darling, Rioli, Venables, Cripps, and a resting Lycett and Naitanui can bring that.

 

[Obeanie1]

They couldn't have THAT many first round picks, or at least not high picks - I'm pretty sure they have 0 top 10 players in the team (B. Crouch mini-draft exception).
I think their recruiting has been very good, they have built a very good team.

Right now you'd rather be them obviously, they are coming off a dominant year.
Got ahead of themselves in the GF, but outside of Betts they're not losing any talent due to retirement.

They just picked up a couple more first round picks and unearthed Hartigan who can take the place of Lever.

To say we cover them in forwards and defence seems misguided, they scored 450 more points that us this year (even North scored more than us!)
Our defence is probably even with theirs, especially with the loss of Lever.

Their midfield finally seemed to click with the Sloane & the Crouch boys and other lesser-known players stepping up to fill the void.
Our midfield is probably bottom 4 in the league so it certainly brings other areas of the team down (but there is hope).

West Coast could be heading to a big drop soon when Emac / LeCras / JK / Hurn retire across the next few years.



You seem to want to do a head to head comparison at an individual level, not taking into account that it's a team game.
The makeup of their entire forward line is better than us, the way they setup plays to their strengths and make use of each tall player in a variety of roles.

What did they get for Dangerfield and now Lever plus Cameron?

Also lost Gunston. Tippet they got nothing and then got penalised for salary cap breaches.

They have certainly lost more top players than most bar expansion xlubs.

 

[Agent93]

Contracted and played 150 afl games compared to

Uncontracted and 27 games in 6 years

5 years older. Limited playing career left.

Basically the driving factor between the Schofield trade idea is that he's surplus and Collingwood might want him. Our rhetoric surrounding Ah Chee is that he is surplus, and we want him given he's shown an interest in coming here.

The best recent comparables for key defenders moving clubs were Hamling to Freo for roughly pick 37, Frost to Brisbane for what boils down to basically nothing, and Dunn to Collingwood for an unrated (ie 5th round or less) level of pick. Fringe key defenders don't tend to be traded whilst in contract, and when they are out, they're traded for a pittance.

 

[Coasters7]

Meh just about telling a player he is required and likely to be in your best 22 from the word go next year as that is what he is looking for. He nominates the team that says that and then the team isn't happy to pay a 3rd rounder for someone lining up in their best 22 on principle. When a 3rd rounder will likely be pushing s**t up a hill to get a shot at our best 22 next year or the year after or the year after that.

I notice everyone is using his worth to Port as a guide to his value. His value immediately goes up when a buyer comes along says he will get more opportunity with them and the player wants to go to there.

Not really a big issue if everything has been communicated and the player is happy with where it stands but I find it strange that a team will tell you can have opportunities we see big things for you...and then proceed to haggle over middling talent in a draft pool.
I mean say we pay a 4th for him as the player I would always be looking at the special kid that the club had to have in the 3rd round that is obviously going to turn things around.

But as I say if things have been communicated effectively shouldn't be an issue.

Im not really bothered about the pick we end up giving them if he ends up being best 22. It's more about principle and the fact that we are trading for a guy that it clearly not going to get a game at his current club next year, no matter how much Port say he will.

Im impressed that the club is actually taking a stand this time, admittedly over a petty difference between a 3rd or 4th, but a stand all the same.

 

[bl4ke]

Jesus if Wilson gets recruited by the Dockers for pick 40, i'll **** a pineapple.

More like 40 + a future 2nd

 

[bl4ke]

Out of curiousity, I thought we drafted Venables to play midfield.
Why is he playing HF in the WAFL and potentially at AFL level?
Give the kid a chance to potentially address our midfield issue and if it doesn't work out he can move up forward.
Why would a forward position be the first option?

Coming back from pretty much 2 years out of football, playing him forward was just player managment

EDIT: Question has already been answered but yeah

 

[RookiePick]

Dont kid yourself

Nicnat is the difference not plodding mids

Sam mitchells a superstar - priddis is a brownlow winner. We still did sfa.

Teams are forced to structure defensively against us with nn - or he’ll just grab it and run.

If hes beaten - we are easier to beat.

What you are suggesting is the prototype midfield from years ago - footy has changed - yes we arent going to get a danger/ fyfe / dusty from trading - yes we can from the draft.

I don't even know what is going through your head at this point. Ah Chee plus one more ball winning/contested type is building a midfield now? I feel like you are stuffing quite a bit of straw up my jumper at any rate.

We have midfielders on the list that are damaging inside and outside the contest in Shuey and Sheed and to a lesser demonstrated extent Redden. These are all first round draftees effectively. If we want 23-25 year old mids with these attributes they will likely cost us first round picks or players that we don't want to lose. We don't have a great number of players to either step up into the role of a traded player or depth players that have any value at the trade table.

In order to get the best output from our quality midfielders we may be able to support them with role players that we can trade for or use later/less valuable picks on. Having an entire midfield of players that can play anywhere around the contest at a high level is a total pipe-dream for us with the access to the first round of the draft that we have. The only way to get that kind of access is concessions or to be shithouse for an extended period.

If you are happy to piss away the last few of years of the careers of Kennedy and Naitanui waiting for Duggan, Nelson etc to be 24-25 we are occupying fundamentally different positions on what we should be trying to achieve in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Obeanie1]

Meh just about telling a player he is required and likely to be in your best 22 from the word go next year as that is what he is looking for. He nominates the team that says that and then the team isn't happy to pay a 3rd rounder for someone lining up in their best 22 on principle. When a 3rd rounder will likely be pushing s**t up a hill to get a shot at our best 22 next year or the year after or the year after that.

I notice everyone is using his worth to Port as a guide to his value. His value immediately goes up when a buyer comes along says he will get more opportunity with them and the player wants to go to there.

Not really a big issue if everything has been communicated and the player is happy with where it stands but I find it strange that a team will tell you can have opportunities we see big things for you...and then proceed to haggle over middling talent in a draft pool.
I mean say we pay a 4th for him as the player I would always be looking at the special kid that the club had to have in the 3rd round that is obviously going to turn things around.

But as I say if things have been communicated effectively shouldn't be an issue.

That 3rd pick will likely land one of Liam Ryan, Kelly, Shloithe or a kid who has slided.

Our 3rd round picks have actually played more games than our 2nd round picks in recent years.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

That 3rd pick will likely land one of Liam Ryan, Kelly, Shloithe or a kid who has slided.

This is the point. We need to try to retain it so we can get a better player in the draft. Is it worth losing Ah Chee over, probably not. But you don't buckle at the first sign of resistance. We push for the best deal we can get and then take a view later in the trade period if we think Port won't cave as to whether to give them our third (maybe with a swap of later picks in our favour) or let him go to the draft (but of course that is no guarantee we get him for cheaper and I doubt it would come to that). For what it's worth, I think Ah Chee will be very good for us and is exactly what we need in terms of age profile, not paying too much for and with potential to improve (like the Yeo trade). If we have to pay a third rounder, so be it. But fourth is probably right given where he is at on Port's list. Either way, and assuming we land him, I will be happy with the trade.

 

[Obeanie1]

I don't even know what is going through your head at this point. Ah Chee plus one more ball winning/contested type is building a midfield now? I feel like you are stuffing quite a bit of straw up my jumper at any rate.

We have midfielders on the list that are damaging inside and outside the contest in Shuey and Sheed and to a lesser demonstrated extent Redden. These are all first round draftees effectively. If we want 23-25 year old mids with these attributes they will likely cost us first round picks or players that we don't want to lose. We don't have a great number of players to either step up into the role of a traded player or depth players that have any value at the trade table.

In order to get the best output from our quality midfielders we may be able to support them with role players that we can trade for or use later/less valuable picks on. Having an entire midfield of players that can play anywhere around the contest at a high level is a total pipe-dream for us with the access to the first round of the draft that we have. The only way to get that kind of access is concessions or to be shithouse for an extended period.

If you are happy to piss away the last few of years of the careers of Kennedy and Naitanui waiting for Duggan, Nelson etc to be 24-25 we are occupying fundamentally different positions on what we should be trying to achieve in the next 2-3 years.

In 2018 we will potentially see the following midfielders who did nothing in 2017 due to injury or not being on the list.

Naitanui
Venables
Hunter Clarke / ?
Ah chee
Kelly / Shloithe

On top of that we will hopefully see midfield improvement with

Duggan
Partington
Cole

Look at Richmond and how they improved. It was across the board improvement with a team first attitude. Hopefully our Rioli can also add some spark and pressure up forward.

 

[getgaff]

How do you know we aren't being active? Are you sitting there with the list managment team?

No, but I'm aware that we aren't being overly active and will take picks into the draft.

Rawlings basically confirmed it via interview that Ah Chee is the only deal we are looking at currently.

Unless there keeping there cards extremely close to there chest it's rinse and repeat from most years.

Personally I don't want to give up our 3rd for Ah Chee either if it means missing the boat on Tim Kelly or another proven state league mid that fits our needs

 

[bodazoka]

A number of players that it seems we should be looking at from other clubs all going elsewhere..

Matthew Kennedy to Carlton
Jake Stringer to somewhere other than the Bulldogs
Tom Rockliff to Port
Devon Smith to Essendon
Daniel Menzel to somewhere else

Even Impey!

All mid forward types, some more mid than others. Probably our weakest spot on the ground looking at LeCras and Hills efforts this year.

 

[bombard]

A number of players that it seems we should be looking at from other clubs all going elsewhere..

Matthew Kennedy to Carlton
Jake Stringer to somewhere other than the Bulldogs
Tom Rockliff to Port
Devon Smith to Essendon
Daniel Menzel to somewhere else

Even Impey!

All mid forward types, some more mid than others. Probably our weakest spot on the ground looking at LeCras and Hills efforts this year.

Stringer, Rocky and Impey (and maybe others?) all had strong views about which clubs they wanted to go to. I'm not sure that's entirely within our control?

 

[mattyc75]

What is interesting is comparing the Eagles to the Crows.

It has become quite the talking point how for some reason the Crows continue to lose top end talent. The other side to this is they seem to end up with multiple 1st round picks and replenish via the draft.

We seem to be the opposite. We really dont lose top talent back to Victoria and seem able to hold onto our interstate recruits.

So who would you rather be?

Adelaide lose good players because they draft better players than us,I'd rather have their recruiting team

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Obeanie1]

So a fringe, not best 22 player is worth a third round pick? Port will be happy to hear that.

KP players always worth more than mids of similar ranking. Ie. A feinge kp is worth more than a feinge mid. Schofield often got the job on Franklin and has played how many games copared to Ah chee?

You also conveniently ignored the pick swaps.

 

[Nev57]

High tackling, manic pressure forwardlines seem to be one of the key themes of the last few years, and I think a forwardline of Kennedy, Darling, Rioli, Venables, Cripps, and a resting Lycett and Naitanui can bring that.

Yep your right it's not rocket surgery as Jacko would say

 

[The Dodger]

That 3rd pick will likely land one of Liam Ryan, Kelly, Shloithe or a kid who has slided.

Our 3rd round picks have actually played more games than our 2nd round picks in recent years.

Haha true enough. Perhaps we should give them our 2nd rounder as we are likely to burn that anyway.