2017 trade/draft thread

[AsterixTheGaul]

Unless he grows another 5cm he's not tall enough to be a Kennedy replacement. He's listed as 191cm now so he's more a 2nd or even 3rd tall type

Shown a fair bit in the two U18 games though kicking 3 goals in each game

With Darling, Lamb, Allen and Waterman as similar types all on our list already he probably doesn't fill a list need as much as I've liked the look of him

There's a couple of young WA defenders, Taylor and Naughton, that would be of more interest

Spot on with you comments on Oscar and needing another 4 to 5 cm growth to be that power forward. He does have strong hands in the marking contest though.

I am interested in Ben Miller as a power forward and ruck. He is listed at 196 so need to watch a few Subi colts games (irks me this) so as to see if he is likely to be able to be that Kennedy replacement.

I am hearing a bit more interest from Naughton given his attacking from CHB and Talyor would be ideal alongside Barrass (one intercept and the other lock down).

Interesting discussion with family friend recently - she was a boarding house mum at Christchurch and she said that Tim English was so uncoordinated when he had his final growth spurts in yrs 11 and 12 that there was no way he looked like a 1st round draftee, and possibly not even draft-able. We often forget the late growing spurts and what that does to the likely positions they play,

 

[Monocle]

Watched the Vic Metro v Vic Country game at Punt Road today.

What a cracking game it was Metro ending up winning a close fought battle.

Some thoughts and notes without a full write up.

The players who I expected to stand out and player well did.

Best IMO:

VM.
Constable, Higgins, Cerra, Raynor, Naish, L Fogarty.

VC.
Worpel, O'Brien, Davis- Uniacke, Calavrino, Clarke, Dow.


A couple of bottom agers for VC were very good and one to put on the watch list for next year Caldwell and Walsh both small classy mids.

Some players that stood out that I haven't mentioned previously.

VC :
Miers - in and under goal kicking mid.

De Koning - tall 200 cm left footed forward ruckman. His old man played for the Doggies but not enough games for F/S.

Dow- hard at it on baller think McGinnity with foot skills.

Lachlan Fogerty - has come into the Champs with an injury but after a slower start in the first quarter he blitzed it. Backing up he work from 2016.

Hunter Clark - One of my favourite player that I have been tracking for two years now. Clarke is a very impressive player , covers a lot of ground and reads it well, very strong and doesn't mind it tough. He was played today of half back, in the midfield and then moved to half forward in the last quarter to help try and get VC over the line. Best hands below his knees that I have seen, he picks the ball off the ground running full tilt and just never misses a beat. Needs to work on his preferred right foot disposal but kicks well both sides as he is one of those players who kicks on which ever foot is most advantageous. Very dual sided by hand and foot.

Clavarino - Best KPP on the ground by some margin. When the game was on the line in the last quarter he intercepted marked several time , some big grabs, is touted as one of the KPP to come of the board early come draft night.


VM :
Sutherland - After all the speculation of will he.... won't he play..... , he did and showed some promise presented well and made the most from limited possessions. I can see what all the fuss is about, he looked good and played with a bit of agrro. Big decision for him to make as he needs to decide if its football or cricket that he takes up. Has already represented Australia at the U 18 Cricket World Cup where he did well , is an all rounder at 195and 90. Also is the son of CA CEO James Sutherland.

Constable -First time I had noticed him he is a big bodied mid 190 / 83 and he was BOG, had from memory 31 quality possessions .

Sam Hayes - Was much better today and got involved , won the ruck contests and was handy around the ground, that said I would like to see a lot more intensity to his game.

Coffield - Another that lifted when the game was on the line. The Northern Knight Captain showed great leadership and he is one who will rise up draft boards, while he played HBF today he can also go through the midfield and at 190 / 83 he has a presence.



Come draft night most of the draftees are going to come from theses two teams.

Players that I still rate in the top group.

Davis- Uniacke. VC
O'Brien...... super skill set silky smooth and doesnt miss targets by foot or hand and runs all day. VC
Rayner. Bull and grunt in spades. VM
Cerra. Covers a lot of ground one very high Footy IQ. VM
C Foggarty. SA

After todays game the following would be climbing draft boards.

L Fogarty. VM
Higgins. VM
Worpel.VC
Dow. VC

Other to present as possible first rounders

Hunter Clark.
Constable.
Clavarino.
Hayes.
Sutherland.

It was a ripper game and its available to watch on the AFL website.
What pleased me the most was that the elite cream of the crop rose to the occasion when the game was on the line in the last quarter, this enabled me to see those player who could handle the pressure, they didn't disappoint.

This draft cohort is deeper than people give it credit for as I see at least 45 kids that show and are projecting AFL qualities.
A lot of tall's will be good value in the third and fourth rounds.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Not sure about others but watching Melbourne mids smash us tonight, I am even more convinced we do not need another HBFer. We need to take our first rounder and upgrade if we can and get a top 5 pick. Hell, I would even trade out Gaff for really high currency as an outside connector is less valuable if you cannot get your hands on it first.

Failure to get mids will mean the half back line is where we will start our attacks!

 

[Biggie]

No disagreement there Asterix.

In saying that, I'm fully expecting JJ to be in Eagles colours for a our 1st rnder at trade time

 

[ArdentEagle]

Discussed the depth of the draft with a Melbourne based scout last Sunday - he was across for the U18 game and we sat together and shot the breeze,

His view was that when the state team is weak, people in that city/state tend to drive a conversation about it reflecting Australia wide and for all positions. His view was that both Vic Metro and Vic Country teams are strong and WA and SA are OK but weaker than other years especially in midfield. He was more bullish than you are dropping the talent bar low when you get passed the first round. He was at least middle 3rd round of quality. The tall stocks in particular will go quite deep (again both Vics, Allies and WA have good talls).

So I would be more than happy to get a second round pick for Masten as you will likely pick up in the 2nd or 3rd round a KPP like Sam Taylor or Ben Miller.

I would love us to get a really good midfielder and hence what can we package for one of the clubs sitting with a top 5!

Have a good look at the U18 champs with the upcoming games and you will see loads of talent. The issue for us has been that there are usually 5 to 10 guns and then 20 really good but not elite. We have been making finals hence we miss out on guns. I would love to use our 1st and 2nd and get a Cerra or Rayner. They will be there or there abouts but not top 2.

I appreciate the in-depth review of the players but no way are we getting a 2nd rounder for Masten...No one wants him. Don't blame them really.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I appreciate the in-depth review of the players but no way are we getting a 2nd rounder for Masten...No one wants him. Don't blame them really.

Not debating the trade - only responding to the comment that the draft was weak and not worth taking much after pick 20.

We have a track record of not trading players in contract so I cannot see Masten leaving despite the many calls here and likely prolonged WAFL time.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

No disagreement there Asterix.

In saying that, I'm fully expecting JJ to be in Eagles colours for a our 1st rnder at trade time

We resisted the lure of Marcus Adams last year so I will remain in the camp that we will not trade for a position of depth. Naive? Maybe, but whilst we are an average team (Simpson's words), we should resist trading for the finishing touches when we have glaring areas of need.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Not debating the trade - only responding to the comment that the draft was weak and not worth taking much after pick 20.

We have a track record of not trading players in contract so I cannot see Masten leaving despite the many calls here and likely prolonged WAFL time.

Seems like we need to land that top 5 pick to get the player we need this year.
How would you look to get this done mate?

Then we pick up a promising KPF with one of our later picks and maybe Banfield+Ryan in Rookie draft?

 

[former lurker]

I am all for trading Gaff as I think he is the biggest problem with our midfield. Said it before, I can not believe a player who is so one sided made it to the AFL, even WAFL ! We need some grunt !

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

With such a tight season, I see us ending up at best 7th (looking less and less likely) and at worst 14th. Finishing 14th would give us pick 5 and that would be enough to take to the draft and get a gun. End of story. So if in doubt and we cannot see a real tilt for the flag in 2017, NicNat does not return and starts his pre-season and play more younger boys. No need to go overboard, a few percent off the pace and we will quickly slide down the ladder.

Apart from Brisbane, I can see any of the lower placed clubs having a short burst and moving up and anyone from 5th onwards can easily drop down.

So I will throw out speculative deals that are examples but not necessarily likely to happen, just examples.

If we need to trade, we can use future picks or trade players. With NicNat coming back in 2018, most clubs would be thinking we are top 8 next year so not great for us in getting an arbitrage.

Two clubs that hold the key to us getting in the top 5 are St Kilda and Gold Coast (assuming ladder stays there or there abouts).

Saints are holding 2 first rounders by virtue of the Hawks who I still see as bottom 5. There is scope for swapping first round picks and a trade for say Gaff while getting Acres in return. Still early days but a possibility and we get say pick 4 and Acres for Gaff and pick 12 (as an example so no need for posters to get over reactive).

Suns are interesting. They picked up 5 guns last year and may be happy to add experience in say Darling (I would expect a first round for him) or Gaff may be of interest to them but would he move? Again, examples.

Remember that any reasonable trade will have regrets so I would not propose to put overly worked deals on the board as it would get us into silly post responses.

 

[ArdentEagle]

With such a tight season, I see us ending up at best 7th (looking less and less likely) and at worst 14th. Finishing 14th would give us pick 5 and that would be enough to take to the draft and get a gun. End of story. So if in doubt and we cannot see a real tilt for the flag in 2017, NicNat does not return and starts his pre-season and play more younger boys. No need to go overboard, a few percent off the pace and we will quickly slide down the ladder.

Apart from Brisbane, I can see any of the lower placed clubs having a short burst and moving up and anyone from 5th onwards can easily drop down.

So I will throw out speculative deals that are examples but not necessarily likely to happen, just examples.

If we need to trade, we can use future picks or trade players. With NicNat coming back in 2018, most clubs would be thinking we are top 8 next year so not great for us in getting an arbitrage.

Two clubs that hold the key to us getting in the top 5 are St Kilda and Gold Coast (assuming ladder stays there or there abouts).

Saints are holding 2 first rounders by virtue of the Hawks who I still see as bottom 5. There is scope for swapping first round picks and a trade for say Gaff while getting Acres in return. Still early days but a possibility and we get say pick 4 and Acres for Gaff and pick 12 (as an example so no need for posters to get over reactive).

Suns are interesting. They picked up 5 guns last year and may be happy to add experience in say Darling (I would expect a first round for him) or Gaff may be of interest to them but would he move? Again, examples.

Remember that any reasonable trade will have regrets so I would not propose to put overly worked deals on the board as it would get us into silly post responses.

Interesting...

Out - Gaff, Darling and pick 12
In - Acres, Pick 4 and 1st rounder.

I'd be happy with that provided pick 4 really got the talent we need.

 

[Godfather32]

Interesting...

Out - Gaff, Darling and pick 12
In - Acres, Pick 4 and 1st rounder.

I'd be happy with that provided pick 4 really got the talent we need.

We seriously need to think about trading out Gaff and Darling, they're limited players who still have a fair bit of value around the league. I honestly believe trading them and getting something decent in return to bolster the midfield is the only chance we have at winning a flag before JK and Nic Nat retire.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Interesting...

Out - Gaff, Darling and pick 12
In - Acres, Pick 4 and 1st rounder.

I'd be happy with that provided pick 4 really got the talent we need.

To borrow from Monocle - pick 4 would get you one of the following:

Davis- Uniacke. VC
O'Brien...... super skill set silky smooth and doesnt miss targets by foot or hand and runs all day. VC
Rayner. Bull and grunt in spades. VM
Cerra. Covers a lot of ground one very high Footy IQ. VM
plus you never can tell whether another Oliver comes through in TAC late in the year
​

From all reports and what I have watched live and on TV, one of these is the prize and I believe all will be guns.
A later first rounder would get you a Higgins, Spargo, L Fogarty, etc to add to our midfield and then take our second and get a tall like Naughton (touch and go at our second but there are plenty other talls for our 2nd) or Hayes as a KPF/Ruck (high risk high reward option given he is has had another growth spurt and his ruck work was much better v's Vic Country). I think Ben Miller as a ruck/power forward will be there late so no need to panic.

 

[dajesmac]

I have early interest in any of the following, in no particular order:

• James Worpel (Contested beast mid with suspect kicking)
• Jack Higgins (178cm HFF/outside mid)
• Toby Wooller (193cm tall forward/inside mid)
• Nick Coffield (190cm HBF/Inside mid)
• Callum Coleman-Jones (199cm KPF/Ruck)
• Jack Petruccelle (Very quick inside mid with suspect kicking)
• Adam Cerra (186cm inside mid)

All rated outside the top ten of Knightmare's latest rankings.

 

[ziad]

No disagreement there Asterix.

In saying that, I'm fully expecting JJ to be in Eagles colours for a our 1st rnder at trade time

just what we need another soft HBF with poor skills and decision making. but he can run.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I have early interest in any of the following, in no particular order:

• James Worpel (Contested beast mid with suspect kicking)
• Jack Higgins (178cm HFF/outside mid)
• Toby Wooller (193cm tall forward/inside mid)
• Nick Coffield (190cm HBF/Inside mid)
• Callum Coleman-Jones (199cm KPF/Ruck)
• Jack Petruccelle (Very quick inside mid with suspect kicking)
• Adam Cerra (186cm inside mid)

All rated outside the top ten of Knightmare's latest rankings.

I would not say Petuccelle has suspect kicking. I witnessed the U18 game at Domain and he played deep defence and was a running hard to attack and looked duel sided at times. With his run and carry, he was at speed and his disposal was neat.

When he plays inside mid - he is often under extreme pressure and hence a lower DE.

I would see him an early second round prospect, possibly late first if you absolutely value foot speed.

 

[dajesmac]

I would not say Petuccelle has suspect kicking. I witnessed the U18 game at Domain and he played deep defence and was a running hard to attack and looked duel sided at times. With his run and carry, he was at speed and his disposal was neat.

When he plays inside mid - he is often under extreme pressure and hence a lower DE.

I would see him an early second round prospect, possibly late first if you absolutely value foot speed.

Fair enough - I was paraphrasing Knightmare's notes. He actually lists 'kicking consistency' as a weakness so that fits better with your observations.

 

[random260]

How much better is darling compared to McGovern junior?

Will it be

Darling for McGovern junior + 2nd/3rd rounder?

I think McGovern junior can fill darlings role easily as second fwd. can't do anyworse

Or darling less value or equal then gov junior atm?

 

[Monocle]

How much better is darling compared to McGovern junior?

Will it be

Darling for McGovern junior + 2nd/3rd rounder?

I think McGovern junior can fill darlings role easily as second fwd. can't do anyworse

Or darling less value or equal then gov junior atm?

Darling is a better player than Junior Mac but he is badly coached.

Jack needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if he doesn't stop staging for free kicks and doesn't starts attacking the ball then he gets dropped.

You see thats the thing \_0_/ unless there are consequences for continuing poor work habits then there is zilch chance of him eliminating the bad habits from his game.

As a former West Perth player you would think the threat of having to pull on a East Perth jumper would be sufficient to motivate him to take heed of the ultimatum.

 

[ziad]

ever thought jack is doing his best

 

[Falco]

Darling for Gov Jr + 2nd rounder?

Yeah I'd do that.

Agree with you Monocle, something has gone wrong in his game or the way he is being coached. He has gone from being a damaging third tall/KPF to barely affecting games. The fact that he hasnt contributed at all in the last few games is genuinely concerning.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Get Schloithe in - he hates losing and would provide some much needed campaigner. Plus ducking for the lols.

 

[Monocle]

I have early interest in any of the following, in no particular order:

• James Worpel (Contested beast mid with suspect kicking)
• Jack Higgins (178cm HFF/outside mid)
• Toby Wooller (193cm tall forward/inside mid)
• Nick Coffield (190cm HBF/Inside mid)
• Callum Coleman-Jones (199cm KPF/Ruck)
• Jack Petruccelle (Very quick inside mid with suspect kicking)
• Adam Cerra (186cm inside mid)

All rated outside the top ten of Knightmare's latest rankings.

I have seen them all, more than once, and I will rate them for you, if I may.

1. Adam Cerra.



2. Jack Higgins. Line ball here with Worpel but with Higgins you get a mid and a small forward in the one player.
3. James Worpel. Better mid than Higgins. His kicking deficiencies are grossly over stated. This kid farts nails ,he is seriously tough, Joel Selwood tough.

4. Callum Coleman- Jones
5. Coffield
6. Petruccelle
7. Wooller

Take a close look at Lachlan Fogarty.
I will be watching him closely as the season unfolds as he may end up above Cerra on my White Board come Draft Night.

 

[Monocle]

Get Schloithe in - he hates losing and would provide some much needed campaigner. Plus ducking for the lols.

I like him CC and also like the campaigner about him.
Prolific ball winner, aggressive, can kick a goal , has good pace and tackles well.

Trouble is O'Brien doesn't rate WAFL talent well otherwise Banfield or Kelly would have been on our list ahead of Gorter.
Plus WC is now a campaigner free zone.

So no chance to be on our list next year.
Probably be drafted by Geelong as Wells rates the WAFL and places value on hard nosed, hard arsed players.

 

[avishka5]

I like him CC and also like the campaigner about him.
Prolific ball winner, aggressive, can kick a goal , has good pace and tackles well.

Trouble is O'Brien doesn't rate WAFL talent well otherwise Banfield or Kelly would have been on our list ahead of Gorter.
Plus WC is now a campaigner free zone.

So no chance to be on our list next year.
Probably be drafted by Geelong as Wells rates the WAFL and places value on hard nosed, hard arsed players.

That can be fixed by ******* o'brien off.