2017 trade/draft thread

[Patron]

While I agree with the second part of your post.
I would suggest that neither another third tall or an attacking HBF are going to propel us into contenders with our current midfield needing reinforcements and needing them urgently.

Not having a crack at you specifically Patron but I am amused by the preoccupation with throwing money and high draft picks at any WA player who is touted as moving, nothing wrong with the notion as such , however lets not limit our attention only to former WA kids.

I wasn't proposing we trade high picks, only second rounders. Lets be real the fact they are from WA means they are a realistic chance and we can maybe get them cheaper than market price. They are both young still.

Also I think those two players would elevate us more than you think. JJ lets Yeo move to the midfield and suddenly an on ball division of Shuey, Yeo, Mitchell, Sheed and Naitanui looks dynamic.

Sheppard Barrass Hurn
Johannisen J Mcgovern Nelson
Gaff Mitchell Jetta
Venables Darling Sheed
Cripps Kennedy M Mcgovern

Naitanui Shuey Yeo

Int: Priddis, Cole, Schofield, Vardy

Depth: Duggan, Wellingham, Masten, Mackenzie, Redden, Partington, Hill

I think that team definitely projects as at least top 4, would be a serious chance at a premiership this year.

In: Johannisen, M Mgovern
Out: Hutchings, Lecras

 

[dajesmac]

Even Venables played the U/18 tournament as a forward, just as Duggan played his as a defender.

Waterman, Cavka and Parto are others but we do seem loathe to draft pure mids

I think it comes from a desire to develop dual-role mids that can impact in multiple positions given that the lack of this versatility is a common criticism of some of our current mids. With Duggan I don't necessarily think it will pay off (in that I don't think he will become a genuine on-baller), but I think it will with Venables.

That being said 2 of our last first three picks have been spent on 'pure mids'.

 

[dajesmac]

These are two players that would be best 18 and significantly improve our side tomorrow. The only thing is a first rounder is too much for either of them. I would love both of them we just need to make sure its at value with second round picks or equivalent.

The problem we face is that pick 30-odd for either of those players is massive unders.

Johannisen would cost our first rounder. McGovern is probably worth something in the late teens. Matera we could get for pick 30 if we negotiated well.

Personally I'm keen to hold onto that first pick. And weighing up the benefit of Matera in the side against starting round one with Venables and Rioli in the forward line (and keeping pick 30), I'm inclined to favour the latter.

 

[WCE_phil]

The problem we face is that pick 30-odd for either of those players is massive unders.

Johannisen would cost our first rounder. McGovern is probably worth something in the late teens. Matera we could get for pick 30 if we negotiated well.

Personally I'm keen to hold onto that first pick. And weighing up the benefit of Matera in the side against starting round one with Venables and Rioli in the forward line (and keeping pick 30), I'm inclined to favour the latter.

Since when is an uncontracted matera worth pick 30. He was almost delisted last year and so far has played 5 good games. The truth is he's a 3rd rounder or at best the very end of the second round which after all the compo picks is likely around pick 40. Probably gives him a range of 40-50, JJ is our first rounder if we want him. Dogs will try and argue for more but i can't see how he is worth more than that. Mitch Mcgovern plays one of the least valuable positions on the field and that alone negatively projects on him, as does his injuries all this year in his second season. I see him as worth at this stage pick 20-25 and with him being out of contract and looking to come home to play with his brother as an example our second rounder is close enough to the mark.

If we got away with losing 1-2 players along the lines of allen or karpany as well as our first, second and third round pick this year and acquired jj, m mcgovern and matera i would call that a win as it helps us right now but we certainly aren't getting away with some amazing deal. If the 3 targets were contracted it would be different and you can probably slide each players required draft pick 10 spots higher but that's not the case.

 

[dajesmac]

Since when is an uncontracted matera worth pick 30. He was almost delisted last year and so far has played 5 good games. The truth is he's a 3rd rounder or at best the very end of the second round which after all the compo picks is likely around pick 40.

You're probably right. I was working off the presumption that he will continue his decent form for the rest of the year but that's certainly not a given. If he finishes the year strongly though, I can see GC going after our second rather than our third and I was taking a pessimistic view of our trading style which, in recent times, could generously be referred to as 'soft'. We would hopefully at least be wanting steak knives back in that scenario.

 

[Keys]

Players on our list that will be 23 or under at the end of this year :

B : Watson, Gorter, .........
HB: Cole, Barrass, Nelson
C : Duggan, Partington, Rotham
HF : Mutimer, Lamb, Karpany
F : Waterman, Allen, Rioli
R : ........., Sheed, Venables
I : Snadden, Bayok

Couple of things. There's more players (18) there than I anticipated but 10 haven't played a game yet, 4 others have played less than 5 games and none have played 50 games (Sheed has played 48)

The optimist says there's plenty of growth there but the realist says they have a lot to prove and there's question marks on several

There's a need for a developing ruck, a KPF with genuine height and another KPD would be handy

Our small to medium defender stocks are fine but more small forward depth is needed and you can never have enough mids

Mitch McGovern turns 23 so would be a part of this group. If he comes in one (or both) of Allen or Lamb needs to be moved on as we'd have too many 2nd/3rd tall types especially when you factor in Darling as well

Johannisen turns 25 this year so he's not too old but I remain unconvinced he's a real need on the money he's commanding and a potential first round pick

Matera also turns 25 but with Cripps and Rioli on the list and the possibility that Karpany and even Watson could be developed as small forwards I'd be reluctant to give much more than a third round pick for him

I genuinely think we should be focused on building through the draft as the players linked to us don't fill our most pressing needs

 

[mattyc75]

Players on our list that will be 23 or under at the end of this year :

B : Watson, Gorter, .........
HB: Cole, Barrass, Nelson
C : Duggan, Partington, Rotham
HF : Mutimer, Lamb, Karpany
F : Waterman, Allen, Rioli
R : ........., Sheed, Venables
I : Snadden, Bayok

Couple of things. There's more players (18) there than I anticipated but 10 haven't played a game yet, 4 others have played less than 5 games and none have played 50 games (Sheed has played 48)

The optimist says there's plenty of growth there but the realist says they have a lot to prove and there's question marks on several

There's a need for a developing ruck, a KPF with genuine height and another KPD would be handy

Our small to medium defender stocks are fine but more small forward depth is needed and you can never have enough mids

Mitch McGovern turns 23 so would be a part of this group. If he comes in one (or both) of Allen or Lamb needs to be moved on as we'd have too many 2nd/3rd tall types especially when you factor in Darling as well

Johannisen turns 25 this year so he's not too old but I remain unconvinced he's a real need on the money he's commanding and a potential first round pick

Matera also turns 25 but with Cripps and Rioli on the list and the possibility that Karpany and even Watson could be developed as small forwards I'd be reluctant to give much more than a third round pick for him

I genuinely think we should be focused on building through the draft as the players linked to us don't fill our most pressing needs

Small forward depth is needed but Matera isnt needed because of our small forward depth?

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[mattyc75]

Adam sambono looks a likely type,having him and rioli in the forward have you be a headache for the opposition

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[AsterixTheGaul]

Even Venables played the U/18 tournament as a forward, just as Duggan played his as a defender.

Waterman, Cavka and Parto are others but we do seem loathe to draft pure mids

I would not get worried about where they are named as playing in the U18 carnival. Here are some players who were supposedly forwards or defenders at the U18 level:

Forwards: Dale Thomas, Brad Ebert, Tom Scully, Adam Treloar, Lachie Whitfield, Christian Petracca, Lewis Taylor, Caleb Daniels, Darcy Parish
Defenders: Joel Selwood, Scott Selwood, Stephen Hill, David Swallow, Dyson Heppell, Angus Brayshaw

Current example - on Sunday Jack Petrucelle played as a back pocket. He is a genuine wing who I expect to be drafted in the 20 to 30 range (assuming he continues his current trajectory) and will be an outside mid. The Vic teams are notorious for playing a player out of position. Both Duggan and Venables were playing midfield for Western Jets and had spells or were picked for U18 in a slightly different position. Here are some of Twomey's statements prior to the draft




I have noticed the introduction of the NAB AFL Draft Database that they are now naming players more midfield/defender or midfield/forward. They are taking into account where they play for their TAC or Colts team.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

JJ lets Yeo move to the midfield

Reality check - go back to 2016 and see how well Yeo did in the midfield. He admitted over the last summer that he was confused and unclear with the ambiguity of a midfield role.

Yeo looks to have found his niche as an attacking half back who can play on small or tall. He has genuine leg speed and is one of the few players who can get separation when rebounding out of defence. That speed is seen when he has the ball in front of him and less so when he has his back to the goal or in around heavily congested stoppages.

One of his elite attributes is the rebound marking. Again, this is not a high priority for a midfielder. Nice if they can take occasional marks but they Fyfe and Pendels are the exceptions. We have seen real benefits locking the ball in our 50 when he is man marking at the opposition kick in from points.

Yeo is not that good at centre clearances and rarely shows that burst of speed from bounce downs that he shows when he is attacking off the HBF. So why would you want to bring back 2016 Yeo?

 

[eagles rule]

I was against picking up JJ but I am slowly warming to the idea ..I would be quite excited to see his pace in our team and maybe he could be played as a defensive wingman rather than as a Hbflanker ..
I also get the notion that he's checked out of the Dogs already much the same like Brad Hill had ..

 

[Patron]

I think the fair values for the discussed players are probably around:
JJ - 14-20
Gov - 22-26
Matera 35-40

You could argue none of those would be worth it. Especially JJ and our first is likely lower than his value but if any of these 3 were to nominate us we can get them for unders and they all present as value then. I see no reason why we wouldn't be able to get gov for a second and matera for a third if they want to come to wce. Neither team is desperate to keep them. JJ is the hard one ATM but his value is dropping like a stone ATM.



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[Patron]

I agree we shouldn't be sacrificing our first rounder for any of them.


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[Dark Sharks]

Reality check - go back to 2016 and see how well Yeo did in the midfield. He admitted over the last summer that he was confused and unclear with the ambiguity of a midfield role.

Yeo looks to have found his niche as an attacking half back who can play on small or tall. He has genuine leg speed and is one of the few players who can get separation when rebounding out of defence. That speed is seen when he has the ball in front of him and less so when he has his back to the goal or in around heavily congested stoppages.

One of his elite attributes is the rebound marking. Again, this is not a high priority for a midfielder. Nice if they can take occasional marks but they Fyfe and Pendels are the exceptions. We have seen real benefits locking the ball in our 50 when he is man marking at the opposition kick in from points.

Yeo is not that good at centre clearances and rarely shows that burst of speed from bounce downs that he shows when he is attacking off the HBF. So why would you want to bring back 2016 Yeo?

Spot on Richo.

Yeo is obviously excelling playing off the HBF and finally settled into a role which allows him to play consistently to his strengths .

I wouldn't be shuffling Yeo back into the midfield for all of King Midas's silver. No point messing with a one of the few things which has clearly gone right this season.

 

[Agent93]

Spot on Richo.

Yeo is obviously excelling playing off the HBF and finally settled into a role which allows him to play consistently to his strengths .

I wouldn't be shuffling Yeo back into the midfield for all of King Midas's silver. No point messing with a one of the few things which has clearly gone right this season.

Does alright as a defensive mid on certain big-bodied, strong marking types, which then sees him attending some centre bounces. Is clearly less effective than a Shuey-type at centre clearances though.

 

[FKASC]

I would not get worried about where they are named as playing in the U18 carnival. Here are some players who were supposedly forwards or defenders at the U18 level:

Forwards: Dale Thomas, Brad Ebert, Tom Scully, Adam Treloar, Lachie Whitfield, Christian Petracca, Lewis Taylor, Caleb Daniels, Darcy Parish
Defenders: Joel Selwood, Scott Selwood, Stephen Hill, David Swallow, Dyson Heppell, Angus Brayshaw

Current example - on Sunday Jack Petrucelle played as a back pocket. He is a genuine wing who I expect to be drafted in the 20 to 30 range (assuming he continues his current trajectory) and will be an outside mid. The Vic teams are notorious for playing a player out of position. Both Duggan and Venables were playing midfield for Western Jets and had spells or were picked for U18 in a slightly different position. Here are some of Twomey's statements prior to the draft
View attachment 383553

View attachment 383554

I have noticed the introduction of the NAB AFL Draft Database that they are now naming players more midfield/defender or midfield/forward. They are taking into account where they play for their TAC or Colts team.

I understand what you're saying and obviously they can't fit every player into the midfield full time during the u/18 champs.

But we desperately need someone to replace Priddis in the guts and so I think we need to target guys who have spent their junior careers playing a similar role to Priddis.

Otherwise we are pinning our hopes on a kid to suddenly develop the ability to go from part time midfielder to a central part of an AFL on-ball division in a short timeframe.

I also understand the need for dual role players but I think that can be developed over time.

Priddis becomes a straw man in this regard because his physical attributes (namely his complete lack of acceleration) are such an extreme outlier. Inside mids can still be taught to chop out in the forward line provided they aren't snail paced.

Re: your examples of players deemed defenders or forwards in the U/18 champs, most of them are outside mids/flankers and therefore not currently playing the role that we would require of them anyway. Like I said I get your point though.

I just feel that the player we need to target should be the best inside mid in their State. Whether we have the right pick to draft such a player is another discussion altogether, obviously.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

View attachment 383607 View attachment 383608 I understand what you're saying and obviously they can't fit every player into the midfield full time during the u/18 champs.

But we desperately need someone to replace Priddis in the guts and so I think we need to target guys who have spent their junior careers playing a similar role to Priddis.

Otherwise we are pinning our hopes on a kid to suddenly develop the ability to go from part time midfielder to a central part of an AFL on-ball division in a short timeframe.

I also understand the need for dual role players but I think that can be developed over time.

Priddis becomes a straw man in this regard because his physical attributes (namely his complete lack of acceleration) are such an extreme outlier. Inside mids can still be taught to chop out in the forward line provided they aren't snail paced.

Re: your examples of players deemed defenders or forwards in the U/18 champs, most of them are outside mids/flankers and therefore not currently playing the role that we would require of them anyway. Like I said I get your point though.

I just feel that the player we need to target should be the best inside mid in their State. Whether we have the right pick to draft such a player is another discussion altogether, obviously.

Alex Waterman was going to be that person who would be the inside centre extractor. Need to start again.

I would have preferred to rookie Bailey Banfield as he was one of those true mids. Ameduri this year might be a possibility.

 

[eagles rule]

Does alright as a defensive mid on certain big-bodied, strong marking types, which then sees him attending some centre bounces. Is clearly less effective than a Shuey-type at centre clearances though.

I'm happy enough with the use of Yeo still being used in the midfield if the match ups suit ,the more exposure he gets is valuable learning experience..I wouldn't be recommending that he just stay as a half back flanker .

 

[Dark Sharks]

I like how we're still calling him Alex, rather than Alec

 

[mattyc75]

Alex Waterman was going to be that person who would be the inside centre extractor. Need to start again.

I would have preferred to rookie Bailey Banfield as he was one of those true mids. Ameduri this year might be a possibility.

So would you pick.up banfield this year? Has he improved?

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[avishka5]

I like how we're still calling him Alex, rather than Alec

Yeah it's as annoying as certain posters misprouncing mastens name.

 

[squashface]

Yeah it's as annoying as certain posters misprouncing mastens name.

Lol you are aware that is name is actually pronounced 'Marsden'

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Lol you are aware that is name is actually pronounced 'Marsden'

I thought he'd said it was "Mass-ten"?

 

[FKASC]

I like how we're still calling him Alex, rather than Alec

You're such a smart Alex

 

[squashface]

I thought he'd said it was "Mass-ten"?

https://www.nova969.com.au/how-pronounce-chris-mastens-name