2017 trade/draft thread

[dajesmac]

Yeh, I mean so far only 40 guys taken in the last draft have played, hardly any right?

I just really don't think 'games played in first season' is a reliable metric for our draft performances. Out of the four we drafted in the main draft, only one (Rotham) has been on the park to even earn a debut. Venables and Rioli would have played 10+ games this year each (Venables had already been told he was debuting). Waterman missed most of the year with injury but at pick 76 wasn't really in the frame for a 2017 debut you'd think.

It's a pain in the ass not to have these players available this season but it's just shitty luck, that's all. If Sam Powell-Pepper busted his ankle in round 1 does this whole analysis turn on it's head?

 

[mattyc75]

Wasn't Dunkley a FS to the Bullies though?

Monocle is still miles in front regardless but you can't consider pie in the sky stuff...

No,swans father son.apparently the swans agreed to let him go if a Melbourne club bid on him.so yes he was never coming to us

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[FKASC]

I have actually been watching Monocle picking in the mock and happy to share the BigFooty 2015 Mock then.

Monocle's first 5 picks have played 59 (including a GF) games and O'Brien's first 5 picks have played 12 games.

View attachment 401609
Games played up to 9th Aug in brackets.

I agree with dajesmac that this is a dodgy way of evaluating our drafting.

Not taking into consideration injuries and body size issues (which are big factors), the fact is we have no idea how many games the exact same players would have played for us. Very very likely that they would not have played anywhere as many games if O'Brien picked them - Dunkley and Markov especially.

My issue with the club, and I pointed this out a few weeks back, is that there seems to be a disconnect between the recruiting blokes and the match committee/coaches.

We took a risk with Lamb despite the MC not showing any desire to change our forward set up other than in times of desperation. For example McInness has only ever played when Darling has been injured or when we have needed ruck backup. Similarly they've focused on smaller types with attributes indicating they should be able to rotate in the midfield (e.g. Karpany, Nelson, Newman), but the coaches seem to favour a very rigid midfield set up and are loathe to rotate too many players through there.

As such our development isn't working. There's no straight line between draft day and match day. Could be a complete crock of shit but it's just the impression I've got from a distance

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Would be nice for our Club to acknowledge that our recruiters are not top shelf anymore and then having recognised the weakness go about acquiring some better recruiters and talent spotters.

Is it the recruiters that aren't performing, or are we falling down at developing the players once they come in?
- Simpson is reluctant to bring youth into the seniors (though to be fair, he's blooded a lot of kids this year);
- WAFL team issues (or so I'm reading);
- Too many kids playing WAFL reserves;

Duggan and Sheed have shown how quickly they can develop when given an extended run in the seniors. Karpany, Nelson and Partington are starting to show the same.
These kids we're drafting are all phenomenally talented. Even poor recruitment doesn't explain why we have so few kids breaking into the side.

 

[Monocle]

Is it the recruiters that aren't performing, or are we falling down at developing the players once they come in?
- Simpson is reluctant to bring youth into the seniors (though to be fair, he's blooded a lot of kids this year);
- WAFL team issues (or so I'm reading);
- Too many kids playing WAFL reserves;

Duggan and Sheed have shown how quickly they can develop when given an extended run in the seniors. Karpany, Nelson and Partington are starting to show the same.
These kids we're drafting are all phenomenally talented. Even poor recruitment doesn't explain why we have so few kids breaking into the side.

You raise a very good point daddy_4_eyes and I actually think it a combinatiom of both.
We are poor in three keys areas of performance with in the football operations department .

1. Recruiting
2. Player Development
3. Strength and Conditioning

You are correct that players definitely develope quicker if they are exposed to higher level competition rather than languishing in the WAFL .
It's getting that balance right that's the test for the coaching team.
It's also one of the advantages of being in "rebuild " mode as the Clubs supporters will accept and even tolerate some short term pain for longer term gain as young players develop .
Best case of this for us is Nelson as he is making heaps of errors but he is also improving in other areas of his game. We as supporters just need to truck it out and support the Clubs development of Jackson.

Interesting times ahead for the Club and how it determines to beast advance our playing list.

 

[Jiggyman]

the coaches seem to favour a very rigid midfield set up and are loathe to rotate too many players through there.

As such our development isn't working. There's no straight line between draft day and match day. Could be a complete crock of shit but it's just the impression I've got from a distance

Agree re: drafting and development, but I think Simmo has been trying different midfield setups and centre-bounce combos. We seem to have a lot of players who have rotations through there but aren't true midfielders (yet?). Unfortunately the truth is they just aren't good enough (yet??).

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Are people genuinely complaining about games played of venebales, rioli and waterman as a measure on our recruiters? There's many things to knock them for but there's little doubt that at least venebales and rioli would have played if not for injuries. Waterman an outside chance for a game or two as well.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Aaron Hall from GC originally from tasmania may be wanting out of the GC Suns.
He would be the type we need and wouldn't cost the world .
Mid with some explosive pace ,run and carry .
Likes to tackle and wins his own ball .

 

[Feeling Groovy]

Aaron Hall from GC originally from tasmania may be wanting out of the GC Suns.
He would be the type we need and wouldn't cost the world .
Mid with some explosive pace ,run and carry .
Likes to tackle and wins his own ball .

I know he cops a bit of flak for running around like a chicken without a head at times and has been dropped a few times, but I have always liked what I have seen. Can't say I noticed the tackling. Is this an attribute of his? The pace and run I do like and think he would be useful at the right price and a lot cheaper than JJ would have been.

 

[FKASC]

Would definitely take Hall if cheap

 

[hornetswce]

Trade whisperer guy on twitter reckons we are looking at grant birchall haha

On SM-G935F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Trade whisperer guy on twitter reckons we are looking at grant birchall haha

On SM-G935F using BigFooty.com mobile app

another HBF ?

 

[Godfather32]

I just really don't think 'games played in first season' is a reliable metric for our draft performances. Out of the four we drafted in the main draft, only one (Rotham) has been on the park to even earn a debut. Venables and Rioli would have played 10+ games this year each (Venables had already been told he was debuting). Waterman missed most of the year with injury but at pick 76 wasn't really in the frame for a 2017 debut you'd think.

It's a pain in the ass not to have these players available this season but it's just shitty luck, that's all. If Sam Powell-Pepper busted his ankle in round 1 does this whole analysis turn on it's head?

Wasn't saying it was, I was just responding to a poster who said that players weren't expected to play in their first year. I've posted plenty of data in the last few months that shows how shit our drafting/development has been

 

[avishka5]

Trade whisperer guy on twitter reckons we are looking at grant birchall haha

On SM-G935F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ahaha saw that
Makes no sense as he is injury prone and turning 30 next season.

Hawks also want a first roundet for him so they can get Kelly.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Trade whisperer guy on twitter reckons we are looking at grant birchall haha

On SM-G935F using BigFooty.com mobile app

That guy is basically a troll.

 

[Suma Magic]

Aaron Hall is interesting.

 

[paran]

I agree, the reality is that O'Brien has done a horrible job since he was promoted, we've blown so many picks, he needs to go

Very harsh. 2014 (Duggan, Lamb, Nelson, Cavka, Waterman) was very good, with unforeseen injuries taking out Cavka and Waterman aside (you can't blame the recruiter), Duggan and Nelson are best 22, Lamb is a KPF, so next year is his decision year, but the talent is there. 2015 (Partington, Cole, Mutimer) was decent, all have played this year and are in the 22-30 range on the list. I would have liked us to nab Menagola though. With regards to 2017 (Venables, Rotham, Rioli, Waterman), I'm not a fan of him passing over SPP, however he wasn't alone in that, practically every other team did. I'm a huge fan of Rotham, but feel the issue this year has been more around development than recruitment - he need to be in a position where he gets more footy fed to him, rather than playing as defensive as he is. Rioli was in line for a call up prior to injuries and I've been impressed with him, while Waterman looked very good on the weekend. So apart from favouring some easterners over locals (not picking SPP or Menagola) I can't really say he's been poor.

 

[paran]

Aaron Hall is interesting.

He was very interesting last year - thought we'd make a big run at him! I don't think he works well with GAJ, I'd give up pick 10 for Hall.

 

[FKASC]

He was very interesting last year - thought we'd make a big run at him! I don't think he works well with GAJ, I'd give up pick 10 for Hall.

 

[Godfather32]

Very harsh. 2014 (Duggan, Lamb, Nelson, Cavka, Waterman) was very good, with unforeseen injuries taking out Cavka and Waterman aside (you can't blame the recruiter), Duggan and Nelson are best 22, Lamb is a KPF, so next year is his decision year, but the talent is there. 2015 (Partington, Cole, Mutimer) was decent, all have played this year and are in the 22-30 range on the list. I would have liked us to nab Menagola though. With regards to 2017 (Venables, Rotham, Rioli, Waterman), I'm not a fan of him passing over SPP, however he wasn't alone in that, practically every other team did. I'm a huge fan of Rotham, but feel the issue this year has been more around development than recruitment - he need to be in a position where he gets more footy fed to him, rather than playing as defensive as he is. Rioli was in line for a call up prior to injuries and I've been impressed with him, while Waterman looked very good on the weekend. So apart from favouring some easterners over locals (not picking SPP or Menagola) I can't really say he's been poor.

Been in the job since 2011 though and we have fielded the least amount of players drafted since then and of those players they've played the least amount of games, and it's not even close to 90% of the rest of the league. He has done a terrible job. Not letting our coaches off the hook either, we haven't been very good at developing players in that time period, but a fair bit of the problem is the drafting. Also our use of the rookie list in this time has compounded the issue.

 

[paran]

Been in the job since 2011 though and we have fielded the least amount of players drafted since then and of those players they've played the least amount of games, and it's not even close to 90% of the rest of the league. He has done a terrible job. Not letting our coaches off the hook either, we haven't been very good at developing players in that time period, but a fair bit of the problem is the drafting. Also our use of the rookie list in this time has compounded the issue.

I think the trades for Wellers and Redden have a big impact on that period. Throw in the GC and GWS factors and theres 3-4 drafts that are compromised by things outside his control.

2011 (GWS affected)
Newman - wasted talent, could have made it, went to jail.
McInness - a not quite talent. Not quite tall enough to be a ruck, not quite agile enough to be a KPF. I think there's some failure in development here too. He's being kept purely for depth, club needs to be more decisive on talent.

2012 (GWS affected, Wellers trade)
Colledge - pick in 40's tried and missed for a big bodies mid. WAFL quality.
Carter - late pick, WAFL quality
Hutchy - great pick, best 22.

2013
Sheed - ACES!
Karpany - talent there, typically would have expected at least 10 more senior games than he's received.
Barrass - ACES!
Main - was always a project that was cut a year early. Seems to have put it together and is killing it at WAFL.

I think the 2011 and 2012 drafts, where we kept picks to a minimum are biting us now.

 

[Suma Magic]

He was very interesting last year - thought we'd make a big run at him! I don't think he works well with GAJ, I'd give up pick 10 for Hall.

I wouldn't give up a top 10 pick.

 

[paran]

I wouldn't give up a top 10 pick.

I see him as a 30 possession 2gl a game mid. He ended last year on fire but has been up and down this year. Jack Martin is another I'd love to make a run at if possible. Callum Ah Chee would also be worth a serious flutter.

 

[WCEbrody]

Aaron Hall is the last player i'd be going after if we're looking to get stronger around the contest.

Legit seagull.

 

[Godfather32]

I think the trades for Wellers and Redden have a big impact on that period. Throw in the GC and GWS factors and theres 3-4 drafts that are compromised by things outside his control.

2011 (GWS affected)
Newman - wasted talent, could have made it, went to jail.
McInness - a not quite talent. Not quite tall enough to be a ruck, not quite agile enough to be a KPF. I think there's some failure in development here too. He's being kept purely for depth, club needs to be more decisive on talent.

2012 (GWS affected, Wellers trade)
Colledge - pick in 40's tried and missed for a big bodies mid. WAFL quality.
Carter - late pick, WAFL quality
Hutchy - great pick, best 22.

2013
Sheed - ACES!
Karpany - talent there, typically would have expected at least 10 more senior games than he's received.
Barrass - ACES!
Main - was always a project that was cut a year early. Seems to have put it together and is killing it at WAFL.

I think the 2011 and 2012 drafts, where we kept picks to a minimum are biting us now.

Agree to some degree but 15 other teams were operating under similar constraints with the compromised drafts and the only other team that's even close to us in playing young draftees is Hawthorn and they have premierships to show for it